LTHForum.com

Some quick comments to the immediate above:

1. You know, some packing material actually is edible-- it's basically made from puffed corn, in an effort to be more biodegradably correct. (Don't any of you order from Seventh Generation?) So they were playing not just on the fact that it was puffed corn that kind of looked like styrofoam (a non-edible compound) but that it was like genuine packing material. (Edit: Oops, somehow I missed Gleam's post that made this exact point.)

2. The people who were there seem to have responded less to the cleverness of any individual thing but to the show as a whole. Any one item could be picked apart (as I, in fact, have in the past in at least one case). But the dinner seems to have been more than the sum of its parts, and I want to hear from more of them about what, I think, can only be called the Moto-Thon....

3. You want more challenge? I have just the product line:

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Technology triumphs over taste?

RE: Stevez's note about the Duck Pull Apart. I, too, found myself (as did Heather and others) stuffing the duck back into the 'inside-out eggroll' in careless defiance of the presumed way of consuming this deconstructed dish. The duck meat, as Steve said, was excellent, and I almost found the sauce too much for it, though it was really cool that the sauce was encased in a fried tube that C2 thought was a Chinese finger handcuff.

Which brings me to the issue of coolness vs. flavor. The Lobster & Orange (named with uncharacteristic directness and simplicity) was served with a gas-charged orange half that made a sizzle when squeezed over the lime. Matt, our most excellent sommelier and general serving person, said in an off-hand way as he laid out the plates, make sure to try the lobster before you squeeze it on the orange. I did, and it was fantastic, but very simple: good lobster, some buttery reduction, just that. Then I amused myself, as directed, by squeezing on the orange, and I got to tell you, I liked it better the way it was without the orange juice, though it was big FUN and, of course, cool to squeeze the sizzling orange over the lobster meat. My point: the dish was better tasting in its simple form, but that simplicity was clearly not enough, and it would not have had Moto's impress upon it; the gaseous citrus fruit provided that impress, but somewhat reduced the dish's good flavors.

In all fairness, I believe I was in the minority here; others seemed to like the dish just fine when consumed the way Cantu intended. The continuing issue here is that sometimes the Moto trademark of technologically manipulating food flavors ends up overwhelming the natural tastiness of the ingredients (which were all first-rate).

Hammond

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“We all have to stand before the kitchen gods.” Chef Jacob Sahaya Kumar Aruni

Mike,

You have hit the nail on the head. The experience was not about any one dish, but about the entire experience. I'm not sure if Chef Cantu puts something in the food or perhaps something in the air (similar to the stories you hear about Vegas casinos pumping in pure oxygen). In any event, our 7+ hour dinner whizzed by in what seemed like no more than 1.5 hours (to me, anyway). To sit still for a meal for that long is unprecidented in my life. I'm usually not that patient, although my ass was getting a little sore by the end of the night. The servers described each course and the accompanying wine with an ernestness that (to me anyway) was just barely covering a sense of playfulness. If a diner wanted to take their food VERY seriously, that vibe was there, but if you wanted to take the food and the experience in the playful manner with which it was created, that was OK, too.

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Steve Z.
Photographer/Pseudojournalist

"The only time to eat diet food is while you’re waiting for the steak to cook." - Julia Child

I liked that dish both ways (with and without the orange squeezins). My only wish for that dish would have been to serve it with a knife so that I could have taken the lobster in smaller (and more) bites in order to enjoy it longer. I found my fork not up to the task of cutting the lobster meat, given the topography of the serving dish.

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Steve Z.
Photographer/Pseudojournalist

"The only time to eat diet food is while you’re waiting for the steak to cook." - Julia Child

I would like to say that I had a wonderful time at Moto. I was glad to have been a part of it, and look forward to the next outing.

I can't wait to skin the next racoon who gets trapped. I am already looking into where that gland is as not to taint the delicate meat I would love to taste.

Anyone up for 'possum next?

Hey skinner. It was great meeting you at the Moto dinner. As a point of reference, Robert Adams at Honey 1, who grew up trapping and skinning raccoon in Arkansas said that he has never, nor will he ever, eat a possum. He feels that they are not good eating because they scavenge dead stuff for food as opposed to raccoons, who catch their food and kill it themselves. I'm not sure if that theory translates to the urban raccoon (as they seem to love to scavenge in garbage cans), but that's what he says and it's good enough for me!

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Steve Z.
Photographer/Pseudojournalist

"The only time to eat diet food is while you’re waiting for the steak to cook." - Julia Child

Yeah, am I the only one here who's actually eaten real packing material before? I always thought that was a universal rite of passage of youth.

Kid 1: "Hey, did you know you can eat these styrofoam peanuts...they just melt in your mouth?"
Kid 2: "Nuh-uh"
Kid 1: "Uh-huh"
Kid 2: "Nuh-uh"
Kid 1: "Uh-huh"
Kid 2: "Really?...(letting packaging foam dissolve in mouth)...cooool."

I've done it (and I posted on the first page about these peanuts). They taste like nothing, but it's a neat effect. Seems like an easy flavor delivery device.

-ed

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Ed Fisher
my chicago food photos

RIP LTH.

SteveZ, I found the "perceived lack" of silverware at various points to be "challenging" in and of itself. Was there a mistake? Am I approaching this dish with a too genteel manner? Is Cantu saying something about utensils/utility/food? At other points, there was a "perceived abundance" of utensils (e.g., seemingly superfluous spoons). It gets you thinking.

And on the subject of "challenge food," VI, if the eyeball taco is the benchmark of what's challenging and what's not, then very little in the world of food can be truly challenging.

Mike, I understand the interest in the scope of the experience, but I think what you're seeing is a slow deconstruction and reconsideration of the individual components of the marathon meal...somewhere, at some point, perhaps we can bring it all together (though GAF did something like this with the very first post in this thread). I think it's important, at this stage, to analyze parts; later, we can put it together (I hope).

Hammond

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“We all have to stand before the kitchen gods.” Chef Jacob Sahaya Kumar Aruni

Maybe it's an under 30 thing.

I have huge regard for Robert's opinion, but I like scavangers (e.g., lobster) and the very fact that an animal eats dead stuff is not a damnation (I do it all the time).

Hammond

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“We all have to stand before the kitchen gods.” Chef Jacob Sahaya Kumar Aruni

Seems likely. Those peanuts were only invented in 1992, says this blurb from the radio. And I can't remember seeing them before then. Corn polymers have only been in real use for the past 20 years or so..

-ed

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Ed Fisher
my chicago food photos

RIP LTH.

I am truly enjoying this thread--the personal reactions to the event are as amazing and unique as each dish presented!

I thought you all might enjoy this article from the NY Times on Chef Cantu.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/03/techn ... ef.html?th


shanti

But can we safely serve you up for dinner?

Last night Channel 11's Chicago Tonight presented a short feature on Omar Cantu. Today I come here and read this fascinating review and discussion. Thanks to all of you for your vivid descriptions and photographs. Looks like I missed out on a really memorable experience. Guess I'm going to have to pay attention to the other parts of this forum, like the Events Calendar.

As to eating scavengers, is that why no one roasts a vulture for Thanksgiving?

As to challenging, I guess my main point is, is to reject the whole notion of challenging as a special feature of fine dining. After all, in Oaxaca it is not challenging (at all) to eat grasshoppers. Chitterlings can be the most gross thing imaginable or a weekly treat. (Some) kidz think green ketchup's cute; hell some people think it sane to put any color ketchup on hot dogs ( ). Some people eat with their hands, some eat with their hands, but only use three fingers. There's chopsticks and there is Euro style fork and knife eating. Anything that is not within one's realm of experiences, custom, or norm can be challenging. And yes, breaking taboos, trying tongue for the first time, or Icelandic stinkin', spoiled crap (I think the technical term) IS challenging. It is just not that Moto challenges any differently (if at all).

Rob

so possum is traif? what about the buzzard i have in my fridge?


i don't think of the dinner @ moto as being challenging to eat. it was more challenging to consider. or reconsider.


what i liked the most, was the uniqueness of the entire evening. when i get a check, i generally look @ the price and decide whether it was worth it or not. no itemizing. the answer is either yes or no. if yes and i'm happy with the meal, i pay it gladly. if no, i may start to look it over more, to possibly find fault. it was an experience i'll always remember in an atmosphere that was very conducive to enjoying the entire evening. some courses better than others, but no glaring missteps that make you question or feel taken when paying the bill. with the amount of things in this world thats mediocrity are accepted as per norm, this was anything but.

i applaud them for that. anytime an artist puts his work out to the public, mrs. jiminlogansq or skinner can attest, you open yourself up, rightfully so, to opinions. good and bad. thick skin or maybe in this case, pelt required. i know my art is done first and formost, for me. not for resale @ a later date or to anticipate or join a marketplace. if people get it, and like it, all the better. if they don't, @ the very least i still have my moment of enjoyment. when working in the untraditional, that can be even more so. someone might have told picasso to lose the blue. i'm not comparing this to picasso, but as an artist, which he his, he's entitled to use whatever medium he wants to create and inevitably, challenge.


i was impressed. i was actually surprised i enjoyed it as much as i did, and when i paid the bill, i felt the evening was worth it.

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"In pursuit of joys untasted"
from Giuseppe Verdi's La Traviata

Then we're in full agreement. Most "fine dining" dinners I've had have not been challenging in the least. You didn't go to Le Francais for a challenge; you went for the perfection of a form, the expectations for which are firmly ingrained in French culinary tradition. There were surprises, sure, but mostly just perfectly executed dishes that did not make you laugh.

Hammond

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“We all have to stand before the kitchen gods.” Chef Jacob Sahaya Kumar Aruni

I have eaten Pirate's Booty, and what makes the Popcorn Flavored Packing Material unique (aside from the taste and the cost) was the fact that PFPM literally melted away in one's mouth, leaving the diner with a memory of one's childhood at the movies on a Saturday afternoon.

I agree with both David and with stevez about the Green Curry, Hearts of Palm & Salted Sugar. I found its assertiveness among the best of the "small" dishes served that night. However, I would have switched it with the Margarita With (pureed) Chips and Salsa, one of my less favored dishes. The Margarita sorbet was fine (although not so different from any palate cleanser) but the pureed Chips and Salsa seemed to be one of those dishes that was justified by the fact that it could be done (of course, it was but one spponful, and so the amazement that it could be done didn't diminish one's readiness for the next dish - it did, of course, taste precisely like chips and salsa).

When I awoke on Wednesday and made my notes on the meal, I tentative rated Moto as three stars (forks? angels?), but after a day I have raised my assessment to four stars. I was out to dinner last night (an excellent restaurant - Restaurant 22 on Hubbard St.), and as much as I enjoyed the meal (Vanilla Scented Scallop Souffle, Coconut Poached Veal Cheeks and Orange Glazed Sweetbreads, Banana Napolean [the taste profile at Restaurant 22 verges on the fruity/sweet]), I found myself not only talking about my meal at Moto (understandable), but thinking about it as well - and I imagine that those flashbacks will long linger. I did, however, restrain myself from providing a rendition of the Aristocrats.

With regard to another concurrent thread, one of my best meals of 2004 was a seven-course meal at Pluton's. Almost every dish was exquisite, there was barely a misstep, and Jacky Pluton is certainly among the most talented chefs in Chicago, perhaps in the US. The combination of flavors was sublime, but in sitting here without seeing the menu, I cannot recall what most of the dishes were - other than to recall how satisfied I was.

And this represents a difference between two wonderful chefs - Jacky Pluton and Homaru Cantu.

The chips & salsa puree reminded me more than a little of the Chow Poodle's "Taco Salad Dip" in both taste and consistancy.

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Steve Z.
Photographer/Pseudojournalist

"The only time to eat diet food is while you’re waiting for the steak to cook." - Julia Child

So, picking up on something GAF said, just out of curiosity, what did we attendees have for our next meals? Did we retreat to normalcy or stretch out a little?

I did the former -- for breakfast, I had a bacon/egg/cheese sandwich from the Billy Goat downstairs, while for dinner I sliced some leftover flank steak thin and made cheesesteak sandwiches.

(I rarely go to the 'Goat on any day but Friday, but didn't even get to bed until 4 AM thanks to a mildly sick cat, and got only four hours sleep, so I figured an extra dose of protein wasn't going to be a bad thing.)

A moment in the life of VI, age 8:

Rob's Mom: "Robbie, I'm trying to send a school picture to your Aunt Edna. She thinks that missing tooth and crew cut are just precious. Have you seen the packing peanuts?"

Rob: [Muffled as white debris shoots from the hole in his grin like flakes from a snow machine.] "Sorry mommie, no."


If any of you were missing packing materials last Christmas....

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But why exactly would popcorn flavored packing material take you back to your youth. Were you eating styrofoam then? ( ) How could this be more evocative, than say, some really good, fried in fat, real buttered pop-corn? See, this is where I just get caught up in the show(iness) of Moto. He could just as easily make you popcorn, real popcorn that would taste as good (if not better) than any popcorn you've had since you were a kid. Besides the clever pun, what makes this better popcorn? If you had two dishes to eat, one was some great real popcorn, one was popcorn flavored corn starch (or whatever it was), which would you really want?

Rob

Not to mention all the paper I ate that did not have pictures of sushi on it.

while the popcorn was amusing, besides not even realizing i was eating pirate booty, the vegetable orb was the one i was most intrigued by. the carrot and beet were my favorites. the cucumber was very much over salted. e for effort though.

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"In pursuit of joys untasted"
from Giuseppe Verdi's La Traviata

jazzfood,

Interesting you should mention the over-salting. I happen to be a big fan of salt, but even I felt that that some of the dishes were a little heavy on the sodium chloride. The Onion...Crouton...Nitrogenation (onion soup with liquid nitrogen), Margarita with Chips and Salsa, vegetable orbs and several other items seemed a little salt heavy.

Hammond

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“We all have to stand before the kitchen gods.” Chef Jacob Sahaya Kumar Aruni

definitely on the onion soup. the others didn't bother me as much.

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"In pursuit of joys untasted"
from Giuseppe Verdi's La Traviata

BobS,

Next day, I found myself craving a hamburger, which I made for myself with lots of onion and catsup*. I'm headed in for a medical procedure tomorrow, so I have not eaten solid food since, though I'm amply sustained by memory (and talk) of Moto.

Hammond

* Leaving Moto, ReneG mentioned that he thought we might organize a catsup tasting as he believes he has found the "best catsup." This is quite a claim, and ReneG is one whose opinions are to be taken seriously. Suggestions for entrants, media for consumption?

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“We all have to stand before the kitchen gods.” Chef Jacob Sahaya Kumar Aruni

Of course, cooks illustrated and jeffery steingarten both did ketchup tastings and, surprise surprise, heinz won. Truly, though, I think this is because heinz is so ingrained in the palate of america as what ketchup SHOULD be that it's likely impossible to give anything else a fair shake.

-ed

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Ed Fisher
my chicago food photos

RIP LTH.

I do have to say that I am not a fan of salt, I did not find the onion soup that salty. As I did not try the cucumber, I cannot say anything pertaining to it's salitiness. I thought the orb was beautiful, but I would have preferred chocolate.

As to the consumption of scavangers, I know that we Jews are not supposed to enjoy the flavors of them, but I an glad I dobn't go by that any longer. I love my pork (had it in Chrismikkah day... thanks Jazzfood for the recipe) as well as my crustacions. Buzzard in your fridge, Mr Jazzfood? You were holding out on me!

I didn't ask about rat.... yet. The French eat pigeons. Who knows...

Skinner