LTHForum.com

I think it is interesting how Next is perhaps creating a new model for higher end dining. Yet I am bemused by the different standards applied in discussing Next vs. Schwa. Reservation cancelled? Asked and answered, move on! Problems with ticketing system? By all means, please discuss at length!

_________________
Objects in mirror appear to be losing.

I am sympathetic to your complaint, kman, but I think the standard set down by ronnie in the Schwa thread is largely fair, i.e., post if you actually had a good or bad experience with the reservations system; don't post if you're just a vicariously angry bystander. Some posts on this thread arguably fall in the latter category (the ones that say "There are too many good restaurants in Chicago for me to fool with that nonsense"--a sentiment that summarizes my own feelings), but not that many.

I feel for you guys. Many of you were influential in helping to build Nick & Grant's business and what did you get in return? Bubkus and a busy signal when you log in for a reservation. What they should have done is offer the first set of reservations to people who visited Alinea on a reverse reward basis. For example, if you ate at Alinea 6 times,they should have offered you the opportunity to book a table at Next before someone who visited 5 times. It would have been super simple to do that as the information is in their computer. Unfortunately, if they did that, they wouldn't get the PR bang they are getting from the tickets being sold out. So for the sake of getting a lot of publicity, they threw their regular customers under the bus. Just think about it, you might have been to Alinea 10 times but your table at Next is being occupied by some guy who is happy eating at McDonald's but he heard that Next was going to be cool so he decided to log on and he got lucky while you are sucking wind.

I don't think this is exactly true.

I think they invited at least some amount of Alinea "regulars" to friends & family dinners. We got to go, and while I definitely haven't been to Alinea as many times as some, we've definitely been at least 5 or 6 times (and Trio 2 or 3 times before that). Also, access to the reservation system was granted in the order in which you signed up for the Next mailing list. I can't recall exactly, but I believe the initial announcement for the Next list went out to people on the Alinea list. I think their presumption was that those who were most interested (or, let's face it, devoted) were the one's to sign up first, so they got first choice of tables.

_________________
-Josh

An amuse bouche at breakfast is called a Bloody Mary - Scott Manlin

Well that sort of makes my point. But before we get into your basic Internet discussion argument which goes around in circles, the issue comes down to whether the restaurant should have gone out of their way to ensure that their regular customers were able to get a table. Some people here obviously believe they should have extended that courtesy (like me) while others are on the restaurant's side of the argument (and argue against their own best interests.) There is no way to prove who is right and who is wrong. It's merely how you feel about it. Having said that, let me go on the record and say the following. If the restaurant needed your business, this is what would have happened. One day you would have been sitting at your desk in your office and the phone would have rang and on the other end someone would have said;

"Mr. Stein, this is Next restaurant calling. We are planning on opening on such and such a date and as a courtesy to our long term customers at Alinea, we would like to give you the opportunity to purchase a ticket for a dinner at Next. All you have to do is blah blah bah"

But since they don't really need your business they didn't make that offer. Giving you the opportunity to put your name on the mailing list before others isn't exactly an invitation. In fact the offer they made-- inviting you to a F & F dinner -- was for their benefit, not yours because they are looking to see if the operation is going smoothly.

Hey chill out. I have only been to Alinea twice so I would be way down the list compared to most of the people here. My point was made on behalf of the people on this thread who should have been taken care of and weren't. If I realy need to go, I can buy a table on the secondary market. But for the sake of full disclosure, I emailed Nick about a table and he never responded to me so I don't have plans to go anytime soon.

I have to disagree. For a reservation with a limited life by design, it effectively turns the ticketing system into a private dining club. There's nothing wrong with that, but that's not a restaurant, and it would seriously hurt their chances in the long run. The issue remains "How do you allocate a scarce resource?".

An economist would answer, "auction" (probably accompanied with a sneer and an eye-roll), which is indeed efficient, but not egalitarian. Momofuku's online reservation system is the exact opposite - very egalitarian, but very inefficient. Next falls somewhere in between.

_________________
"I've always thought pastrami was the most sensuous of the salted cured meats."

If you read this thread, I doubt you'd come away thinking that commenters expected to have been 'taken care of.'

That's your projection of entitlement. I want none of it.

But they made the resource far scarcer than it should be by creating a system that overhypes the product at the expensie of the people who want to (deserve to) eat there. If I want to go see Book of Mormon, I can buy tickets almost year out. Why don't they follow that model at Next. Why do they have an artificial allocation of tables?

If you want to understand why restaurants abuse their customers this way, read this article by Felix Salmon (an economist I believe) about diners being "Glutens for Punishment."


http://newyork.grubstreet.com/2011/03/gastronomics.html

Steve, do you know for certain that the Alinea "regulars" were not given advance notice of the website so they could be the first to sign up?

That, plus the fact that the Next website was very heavily promoted, gives those "regulars" no excuse. Those "regulars" who did not sign up for Next reservations when they had the chance, have no one to blame but themselves for their lack of reservations. End of story.

Kinda like the way winery mailing lists work. You're familiar with those, right?

_________________
Pi r round.

Really, how can any restaurant that sells every table they have available months in advance every hope to survive? A sure recipe for failure.

The discussion of Alinea is interesting. As I've been reading and following this thread, I feel like the only person who has eaten at Next but never eaten at Alinea.

My wife and I got to eat there last night, and besides the food, one of the best parts is how comfortable I felt being in Next. This could be the M.O. for these guys, but I know my wife was feeling anxious and wondering what to expect. Sit up straight, don't slouch, elbows and wrists off the table, etc. I felt like I was 8 years old again being lectured by my grandmother at Thanksgiving dinner.

They staff is very serious about their craft but they don't take themselves too seriously. Being able to joke and laugh with everyone we interacted with really added to the experience and put us at ease at least. I made a joke about not making a mess but of course, as I was plating duck for my wife, I spilled a pea sized drop of the sauce on the tablecloth. When a member of the waitstaff came up to remove our plates she noticed it and made a comment about me being messy. We all had a laugh when she came back and placed a napkin over it so we wouldn't have to look at it.

My only complaint is that we didn't get the chance to try this lamb dish that Phil Vettel wrote about in his review. My only regret is that I didn't ask to see the kitchen. I'm too timid sometimes and felt like I would just be bothering them, but based on comments I've read on the Next facebook page, they are almost always accommodating those who ask.

After pondering the question from a couple friends, I'd have to agree with whoever posted earlier in this thread about wanting to do the menu again... as wonderful as it was, I think once is enough. Only reason I would do it again is if we got to eat it with certain people who I know would appreciate it and just be able to experience everything again with them.

I'm a believer.

Hi Nick:

So you're bemused and have "some" concern whilst reading this thread. Nice. What about those patrons who'd really like to experience Paris 1906? The people who can't play "whack-a-mole" for hours a day and who are unwilling to buy into the secondary market? Are we out of luck? Thanks, but no thanks? Have a nice life? Buh, bye.

I've been disappointed when trying to make a reservation at great restaurants for a specific date and/or time, but I've never been frustrated in not being able to make a reservation, ever... Until now

_________________
"Barbecue sauce is like a beautiful woman. If it’s too sweet, it’s bound to be hiding something."
— Lyle Lovett

"How do you say 'Yum-o' in Swedish? Or is it Swiss? What do they speak in Switzerland?"- Rachel Ray

That's not what I said. I was talking about Steve's suggestion to give preference to the Alinea regulars, and not the ticketing model actually being used. Given how long Alinea has been in operation, you could probably sell out Paris 1906 entirely with just the Alinea regulars, before you even got a chance to open it to the public. And if Next cycles though a new iteration every three months, and the 'regulars' are, again, given preference for the tickets, it becomes a country club and not a restaurant.

_________________
"I've always thought pastrami was the most sensuous of the salted cured meats."

Huh... bypassing the reservations system and emailing the managing partner directly to ask for a table didn't work? Well, with the new openings and all, perhaps he only has time to respond to emails from important people. Maybe try emailing again and asking them to "cook for you." I hear that if a restaurant is truly world-class, they'll understand and respond to that.

_________________
-Dom
www.skilletdoux.com

Yes but don't you see how the "limited run" of Paris 1906 is a market manipulation.Why limit it to three months? Why not open it like a Broadway show and let it run until interest dries up and then move onto the next concept?

You see this was always part of Grant and Nick's marketing schtick. This whole business about completely changing the menu at Alinea every three months, and now doing the same thing at Next, is an artifical market manipulation. Even worse, they hide behind art as a way of explaining why they do it. Look at Heston Blumenthal. He hasn't changed the menu at the Fat Duck in years save for changing the ocassional dish. What that means is that everyone I know has enjoyed the same dishes, and we can discuss them in detail because we are all on the same page. But you can't really do that with Alinea/Next because they artificially change the menus. Can you imagine you went to the Chicago Art Institue this afternoon specifically for the purpose of seeing Hopper's Night Owls and when you got there you found that Hopper had changed it for a different painting ? Would you think of that as the artist expressing himself or a market manipulation intended to make you return as often as possible to see what the artist was up to?

This makes no sense. Hopper is dead, and AIC never acquired works in such a way during the artist's life to regularly swap them out for the purpose of drawing crowds. Besides, AIC is a traditional museum, where curators decide which paintings go where and when and for all sorts of reasons. And the name of the painting is Nighthawks (see the very astute quote Pie Lady has in her LTH signature), and sometimes it is swapped out because it's loaned to another institution or being treated by conservators. A Kunsthalle would be more appropriate analogy to Next because, by definition, what it exhibits is supposed to change regularly.

For what it is worth, one of the reasons that I stopped going to Tru was that the menu always seemed the same.

Steve (and others) seem to hold it against Nick and Grant that they want to make money. I don't. My complaint is that the system is not user-friendly. I hope the place is sold out every night and they make a fortune. It is just a personal thing for me that I don't have the time (ironic in a way since I do find time to comment here) to keep checking back looking for a reservation.

Grant produces great food and Nick seems like a very good businessman. It is the American dream. Best wishes to them both. And if the reservation system becomes user-friendly, I would hope to enjoy the food at Next some day.

Not true. I want them to make as much money as they can. But not at the expense of the people who supported them when they were trying to build their brand. Had they opened the reservation book at Next for the entire year, and had they served Paris 1906 for the entire time, they would have accomplished both things. But if they did that they would have lost the publicity blasts they are going to get every threre months from announcing that the next concept is sold out

Everyone should please read that article by Felix Salmon I linked above because it explains in detail how all of these policies are market manipulations intended to get the customer to bend to the restaurant's will, solely for the purpose of the restaurant being able to go out to the media and say, see our restaurant is special because we got the customers to bend to our will and other restaurant's can't do the same. There is no other reason for these policies because as many people here have said, they are not user-friendly.

Great Steve. Your system punishes people who did not often have $600 to drop on a meal over during the past five years. Sure. That's reasonable.

Market manipulation? No, just good salesmanship. If you don't like the system, don't go. But don't act like Nick and Grant are demons just because you don't get a reservation.

Plus, I need to add that if you think Grant should keep his menu the same for years, you don't seem to get his core ideas. You might be a regular, but one without understanding of what the place is about.

I am in no way a regular at Alinea. In fact as I said, I have been twice. To be honest it is not my favorite restaurant and I personally enjoyed Grant's cooking at Trio more than his cooking at Alinea. Having said that, I haven't been in about 3-4 years so it might be different than what I experienced. And even though I have been in Chicago on a twice a year basis since then, I haven't had any desire to go back, and I enjoyed my one meal at Avenues last June far more than either of my meals at Alinea. As for my desire to go to Next, it has more to do with the OA Survey and getting the people who participate a table than my being able to go myself. I have already been to Dinner by Heston Blumenthal and I can't imagine Next is all that different.

As for your point about the "core concept," not only do I understand it but I am going a step further and calling it a bullsh*t marketing concept that has no basis in art. Name one other artist in any field who places an artifical three month deadline on their art in order to attempt to deprive his followers of being able to experience the art? So you can't get around it. Artifical Time Limit = Marketing Gimmick and Permanent Installations (that have runs that are long enough so that everyone can enjoy the experience) = Art. If that model is good enough for music, museums, theaters, symphonies etc., it should be good enough for Gtant and Nick.

So basically, Steve, you don't like Alinea that much and you don't like the idea that you can't get into Next.

And now you are mad at Grant and Nick. Apparently because they run a business well enough to be packed every night for months.

Can we limit this discussion to people who actually might have some appreciation of Grant's work? Who have either gone to Next or wanted to go but gave up?

If you don't like what Grant's doing, it seems like a bit of a waste of all of our time to complain about not getting into his restaurant. You seem very upset about not getting into a place that you only want to go to so that you can cross it off of some list. If the reservation system kept you from going, it seems like it has to some degree at least accomplished a goal.

Edited to add: I do love Steve's "I'm calling BS" line about the menu change. Because he does not like the art, it must be BS. I am going to do the same with opera. I really hate it. It is nothing but a bunch of people singing on stage for the mere purpose of filling seats in some "opera house." That's it. I'm calling BS on opera.

(Note to self: I'm going to fall for the bait one last time and then no more.)


Do you know anything about the history of art? Really, you might try using an analogy from a different field. For the 20th century alone, I can name off the top of my head 150 well-known artists who have exhibited work to crowds for very limited periods of time, which doesn't even include artists whose works are inherently temporary because of the materials from which the work is made. I could probably do the same for the 19th century. If I weren't getting old and forgetting stuff, I could do the same for the 16th, 17th and 18th centuries as well. See the Happenings a la Allan Kaprow of the 1950s and '60s. Or, have you heard of Banksy?

Is it your contention that when an opera star or musical theatre legend is only in the run of a show for a limited time, that this is a mere "marketing gimmick"? Should these people have to commit to a run that, as you envision it, has no finite ending point, but will run until "interest dries up" for their performance to be "art"? Even leaving aside the potential indentured servitude issues, this is a ridiculous statement.

Well the use of the word "mere: is a bit strong. I didn't say Grant doesn't create art during those 3 months. I am saying hs uses a gimmick to sell the art based on creating an artifical market and it happens at your expense. But you are on the right track with your example of the theater. When the producers of The Producers replaced Nathan Lane and Matthew Broderick in the cast, they replaced them with more cost effective actors. You see this happen on Broadway all of the time. But where your example doesn't hold is that Lane and Broderick were in the cast for a year, making it easy for everyone to see them. Can you imagine if they were only in the cast for 3 months and then replaced by Joe Blow? If Nathan Lane was only available for 3 months that would be one thing. But if the limited run was a manipulation by the producers in order to get publicity, people would complain it was a marketing gimmick.

Look there is an unspoken handshake between artist and those who appreciate art. From the latter's perspective, in exchange for helping the artist further their craft by committing my time and energy to appreciating his craft, I want him to create a reasonable opportunity for me to experience his art in the future. That really isn't asking very much of the artist.. But what Grant and Nick have done at Next does not meet that standard and in my opinion it is not an accident.

Steve, I hear McDonalds rarely changes the menu. Sounds like your type of place.

But seriously, Steve, we get it. You don't like Grant, Nick. Alinea, or Next. Point taken. I just can't figure out why you care so much. Did Nick steal your high school sweatheart? Why does this matter so much to you?

Now move on Steve. You've made your point.

I actually like Nick very much although I don't really know Grant. But it has nothing to do with like or dislike. It has to do with restaurants treating their customers poorly.

One of my favorite people in the entire food industry is David Chang. Yet I recently wrore an article blasting his policies as being anti-consumer.

http://www.opinionatedaboutdining.com/O ... p?ID=11494

The Artist is Present*

*10 weeks, not 3 months, but it's close! And you know what pissed off a lot of people about this? That some of the visitors would sit there for hours - or even all day - and deprive others who had been standing in line forever the chance to experience her art in an up-close and personal way.

Can we make a separate feed for bitter and disgruntled people who didn't get a ticket to Next? This is just silly.

I was one of the lucky few who got to eat a Next's kitchen table. I'm not a friend or family of the chef, nor did I purchase my ticket in the secondary market. I signed up early on to learn more about the restaurant when the teaser website went up, and I logged in at the right time knowing that it would sell out quickly. Had I not gotten these tickets, I would have tried to buy them in the secondary market. I've seen maybe a few dozen tickets available on CL and occasionally Ebay, and if you consider approximately 7400 covers over the span of 3 months (124/day x 60), you're looking at "scalpers" who represent less than 2% of the entire market for this restaurant. I appreciate having this option.

My opinion doesn't have to agree with yours (and frankly I don't care). If anyone is interested in learning more about my kitchen table experience, I'd be happy to share our amazing time there and the photos that we took. Otherwise, enjoy the endless back and forth between the haves and have-nots.

there was also that guy that was there almost every day. discussion about him ranged from he just got up early every day to be first in line, or he was very aggressive (pushing, etc) in line to get his daily chance.

i wonder if anyone's been at Next every day since opening. if so, they must really like classic french food.

(reminds me of my idea if i ever get lots of money: Alinea every day for a week or more, and if i'd get sick of it)