JeffB wrote:I'd go in not looking to compare apples and oranges.

I agree...it is comparing apples to oranges. All BBQ is different. I guess that just means I put Chicago BBQ a the bottom in terms of nationwide BBQ rankings.

All I want is a place that does excellent, smoked ribs/beef brisket/pulled pork along with some killer baked beans and sauce.

rdstoll wrote:All I want is a place that does excellent, smoked ribs/beef brisket/pulled pork along with some killer baked beans and sauce.

Don't forget about the cornbread! (or cormbread muffins)

We all have our favorites. I like NC whole hog best. I'll admit that, while I enjoy Texas BBQ, it's actually my least favorite, if I had to rank the "legitimate" styles. That's even true for the rare, nearly nonexistent places that do a range of regional styles and meats (17th Street/Memphis Championship, e.g.). I'd put a really good Chicago tips and links combo near he top, however. I'll continue to say that the Chicago hot link is the most underrated BBQ meat, especially the course ground version a la U. John's, Barbara Ann's and Lem's. Texas hot links are not nearly the same, as they seem to be more closely related to German/Bohemian wursts whereas the Chicago version is more of a southern sage-and-red pepper sausage stuffed into a casing.

The problem with the every meat/every style places is the same as the pan-Italiano or pan-Chinese place. It's an essentially regional food, and rarely can a place do everything well.

rdstoll wrote:I will certainly have to try this out as my trip down to the American Royal Barbeque contest last weekend in Kansas City reminded me just how woeful Chicago's barbeque is. Seriously, the worst of what I had down there would be #1 in Chicago by far.

But looks like Mack knows his way around the smoker, so definitely worth a shot.

rd, what are the chances of two guys from Des Plaines being at the American Royal together and not even knowing it? I was at the Barbecue Sauce Store the entire weekend, pushing my Roadhouse Bar-B-Que Sauces and others; raising money for some local charities. We've been going down there every year since 1992!

As a volunteer, I had access to huge quantities of the leftovers after the judging. I ate silky, moist brisket and buttery sweet pulled pork. We had ribs that were astonishingly good; moist, smoky; pulled easily from the bone but with just the right texture.

Much as I hate to admit it, your assessment of Chicago 'Que is tragically accurate. Mrs. Roadhouse is a KC native. As such, over the last 28 years, we have experienced a lot of the local greasehouses and can definitively say that, by comparison, Chicago ain't a barbecue town.

I've loved Leon's and Lem's. When he was in business, N.N. Smokehouse's Larry Tucker and I were good buddys. He came closer than anybody around here to making respectable 'Que. But even Larry was just a step shy of the great smoked meats that can be had on almost any street corner in Kansas City.

On the other hand you can't get a decent Hot Dog, Pizza, or Italian Beef sandwich in KC to save your life. I guess life is full of trade-offs.

Anyway, hope you had a great time in KCMO.

Buddy

I think it is an issue of volume and freshness. How hard can it be? A piece of meat, a good rub, some hickory, low and slow... What is there to mess up?

Whether it is my pork shoulder or brisket, it is always best just after coming off of the smoker.

Ahhh, and the pool of juices in the bottom of the cutting tray that you dip each piece in...

Mmmm...

If you've loved Leon's, you need to try some of the other places that are better, BA, Uncle John's, hell even I-57, Best's, or one or two of the Coleman's, and Rib Joint.

I guess my point is, the BBQ circuit folks don't necessarily know that there are lots of "real" BBQ places in Chicago, some of them quite good.

Reminds me: the guy with the huge competition rig who cooked at North Side street fests this past summer (his brisket was very good by the way) literally had never heard of Barbara Ann's or most of the other South Side places. To his credit, he was very interested to try them. My point is, a guy from Chicago (North Side) who invested 50 grand plus in a rig and spent serious time in Texas researching BBQ didn't know about these places. It's easy to see why: before this site and the magazines that love it, such places did not get mention in the general press. And let's face it, the Nascar-Harley-RV-lovin' demographic of the KC BBQ circuit ain't the same as the Chicago aquarium smoker places.

Last, comparing the leftovers from a single competition to a ramdom sample from a restaurant that's open 8 hours a day 6 days a week doesn't make sense to me. Nor does comparing what you did in your back yard. Sometimes you need to pick up some food, now. That's what restaurants are for.

Buddy and Rdstoll,

I find sweeping generalizations about the lack of good BBQ in Chicago myopic. While it's true, the Fat Willy's, Sweet Baby Ray's, Uncle Bub's, Patio, Twin Anchors, current Leon's or Robinson's don't hold up in comparison with the average joint in Memphis, KC, Texas or the Carolinas, just under the under the glossy surface of 5-color monthly magazines and radio talk shows extolling the virtues of Twin Anchor's, as Jeff B intimated, lurks a distinct Chicago style of BBQ that stands proud on it's own merits.

True Chicago BBQ, by which I mean spare ribs, tips and links cooked direct over wood in an 'Aquarium' style smoker, have more in common with Texas Hill country BBQ than it's genealogy might suggest. Relying on fat-in-the-fire maillard reaction (caramelization) as much as smoke for flavor, our Sweet Home Chicago BBQ is, chewy, crisp, meaty, juicy, less tender and, yes, just a little fattier than a lingeringly low and slow KC style.

From my perspective it's all good, and I understand both regional pride and personal preference come into play, but might I suggest we, and by that I mean lovers of things BBQ, take pride in our home grown style and pay homage to the true pitmasters in our midst.

Enjoy,
Gary

rdstoll wrote:I will certainly have to try this out as my trip down to the American Royal Barbeque contest last weekend in Kansas City reminded me just how woeful Chicago's barbeque is. Seriously, the worst of what I had down there would be #1 in Chicago by far.

But looks like Mack knows his way around the smoker, so definitely worth a shot.

well then you might have had some chicago bbq when you were there..we cooked in the Invitational and the Open..in fact one of the top ten teams was from Chicago
the cooks there were from all over the country ..not just kansas

My wife and I returned to Uncle John's last weekend, about three weeks after our transcendent first visit. The tips were definitely more fatty than our first visit, but still great (and Mack is friendly and generous).

Having just moved back to Chicago from Richmond, VA, we're catching up on the scene here. When we left, Lem's was the destination (but it seems that Lem's reputation has faded a bit). How does Uncle John's compare to Honey 1? (We haven't tried Honey 1, but I see that Check Please is featuring it this weekend, which seems likely to dampen this forum's apparent love affair with it, no?)

By the way, is anyone familiar with Richmond barbecue? The glorious cheap-cheap, vinegar-and-clove-and black pepper-laden sauce produced by Sauer’s (the local old-school spice manufacturer)? The completely unorthodox-but-inspired inclusion of cardamon in the spice mix of the ribs at Buz and Ned's? My wife and I once realized that our neighborhood had more barbecue joints than mailboxes....

majorlance wrote:(We haven't tried Honey 1, but I see that Check Please is featuring it this weekend, which seems likely to dampen this forum's apparent love affair with it, no?)

I doubt anyone will love the food any less, but if the CPE^* kicks in, it may be less pleasant to visit.

We're actually going to get a head start on the CPE tonight with a BBQ buffet at H1... c'mon out!

^*Check Please Effect

germuska wrote:

majorlance wrote:(We haven't tried Honey 1, but I see that Check Please is featuring it this weekend, which seems likely to dampen this forum's apparent love affair with it, no?)

I doubt anyone will love the food any less, but if the CPE^* kicks in, it may be less pleasant to visit.

Less pleasant? Nay, more pleasant.

Nothing will help guarantee good BBQ like a steady stream of customers.

The Check Please effect is not necessarily a negative.

Best,
Michael

BuddyRoadhouse wrote:Much as I hate to admit it, your assessment of Chicago 'Que is tragically accurate. Mrs. Roadhouse is a KC native. As such, over the last 28 years, we have experienced a lot of the local greasehouses and can definitively say that, by comparison, Chicago ain't a barbecue town.

Buddy

I like all styles of BBQ, East/West North Carolina, South Carolina, Texas, Memphis, Kansas City, and Chicago; direct and indirect. Each style when cooked properly is excellent. That means they are all equal. All can be cooked in a crock pot with liquid smoke and be equally bad. You can rank your favorite BBQ within a style, but you can only compare a style as your preference, not better or worse.

For those who want a great book describing the different styles of BBQ, I would strongly encourage you to read Smokestack LightningAdventures In The Heart Of Barbecue Country by Lolis Eric Elie. Lolis has a great writing style which shows his love of barbecue. If you have one of the original books from 1996, you have a valuable book.

Bruce wrote:I like all styles of BBQ, East/West North Carolina, South Carolina, Texas, Memphis, Kansas City, and Chicago; direct and indirect. Each style when cooked properly is excellent. That means they are all equal. All can be cooked in a crock pot with liquid smoke and be equally bad. You can rank your favorite BBQ within a style, but you can only compare a style as your preference, not better or worse.

Look, I'm not saying that there isn't any quality 'Que here in Chicago. I'm just saying that on a per capita basis, for a metropolitan area of this size there are damn few places that are worth visiting. As such, I stand by my original statement that Chicago is not a Barbecue town.

JeffB, in his follow up to my initial post, mentions four or five places around town that are putting out high quality grease. Fine. I can list you TEN times that number, without hyperbole, in the greater Kansas City area.

Bruce, I'm with you on the whole "pan" Barbecue thing. I appreciate it all; east to west, north to south. In fact, I'm more open minded than most; try selling a mustard based sauce (which I love) down in KC. They will turn their noses up without even giving it a chance. Talk about fractionalized--how many different styles of BBQ are there in North Carolina alone. And don't even ask a North Carolinian what he thinks of South Carolina Barbecue unless you are prepared for a very negative response.

Which brings me to this:

Bruce wrote:For those who want a great book describing the different styles of BBQ, I would strongly encourage you to read Smokestack LightningAdventures In The Heart Of Barbecue Country by Lolis Eric Elie. Lolis has a great writing style which shows his love of barbecue. If you have one of the original books from 1996, you have a valuable book.

I do, and it is!

Buddy

eatchicago wrote:The Check Please effect is not necessarily a negative

As an absolute, I agree with this, but Ryvka at Think Cafe, virtually next door to H1, freely acknowledges that the restaurant went downhill with the business surge after being on Check Please, and it took a while to compensate.

nr706 wrote:

eatchicago wrote:The Check Please effect is not necessarily a negative

As an absolute, I agree with this, but Ryvka at Think Cafe, virtually next door to H1, freely acknowledges that the restaurant went downhill with the business surge after being on Check Please, and it took a while to compensate.

The Check Please effect is not necessarily a positive.

eatchicago wrote:

nr706 wrote:

eatchicago wrote:The Check Please effect is not necessarily a negative

As an absolute, I agree with this, but Ryvka at Think Cafe, virtually next door to H1, freely acknowledges that the restaurant went downhill with the business surge after being on Check Please, and it took a while to compensate.

The Check Please effect is not necessarily a positive.

I agree with Michael that a steady stream of customers is a good thing for a BBQ place. It means that they don't have to hold product too long or re-heat it. However, what Check Please produces is a surge of customers, which is not the same. Hopefully though, enough of the initial surge will become steady stream later on. Now, how are we gonna get Uncle John's on check please?

d4v3 wrote:However, what Check Please produces is a surge of customers, which is not the same. Hopefully though, enough of the initial surge will become steady stream later on.

However, by definition, a surge is temporary. Even if the level reached by the surge remains constant after a point, what you have is a steady customer base. What Check, Please does not produce is a constantly surging stream of customers.

I can think of many examples of restaurants that appeared on Check Please who received an initial spike in traffic for a couple weeks which then settled down to a reasonable level. Kabul House, Zhivago, Lula....

As a fan of Honey 1, I can think of nothing but good things that can come from their Check Please appearance.

eatchicago wrote:As a fan of Honey 1, I can think of nothing but good things that can come from their Check Please appearance.

Absolutely. The fact that Check Please seems to re-run episodes ad infinitum, can't hurt either.

BuddyRoadhouse wrote:Look, I'm not saying that there isn't any quality 'Que here in Chicago. I'm just saying that on a per capita basis, for a metropolitan area of this size there are damn few places that are worth visiting. As such, I stand by my original statement that Chicago is not a Barbecue town.

JeffB, in his follow up to my initial post, mentions four or five places around town that are putting out high quality grease. Fine. I can list you TEN times that number, without hyperbole, in the greater Kansas City area.

I would concur with Chicago not being a BBQ town and Kansas City definitely has a much greater BBQ presence. OTOH, Kansas City doens't have Italian Beef, hot dogs, pizza, nor the presence of Chinese, Mexican, and Indian foods that Chicago has. New York doesn't have much if any BBQ presence. I would go so far as to say that Chicago has a greater quality BBQ presence per capita than New York, San Francisco, L.A., Boston, Vancouver, etc.

You are absolutely correct sir, as I stated in my original October 12th post:

BuddyRoadhouse wrote:...On the other hand you can't get a decent Hot Dog, Pizza, or Italian Beef sandwich in KC to save your life. I guess life is full of trade-offs.

One could successfully make the argument that Chicago is a brilliant burrito town, a tremendous Thai food town, an innovative Italian food town, a preponderous Polish food town, etc., etc., etc. However the one case you cannot make (and as a proud born and bred Chicagoan, I take no joy in saying this), is that Chicago is any kind of a Barbecue town.

I only wish that it weren't so.

Buddy

BuddyRoadhouse wrote:However the one case you cannot make (and as a proud born and bred Chicagoan, I take no joy in saying this), is that Chicago is any kind of a Barbecue town.

Buddy,

If you take the somewhat narrow view of BBQ joints per city population, sure, KC is a BBQ Town, Chicago not-so-much. Though keep in mind Chicago has well over 100 BBQ joints scattered across the South and West side that are off the radar of many North side and Suburban Chicagoans.

In helping research, and write, parts of the Slow Food Guide to Chicago, including the BBQ section, myself, ReneG, Joel Smith and a rotating cast of BBQ lovers, ate at 40 or so Chicago BBQ joints, from Hecky's to George's BBQ, who, by the way, doesn't use wood "cause wood has bugs" and all points between. True there's a lot of chaff to separate from the wheat, but dig a little deeper into Chicago BBQ and you may not be quite so apologetic.

Enjoy,
Gary

LTH,

Steve Dolinsky did a terrific pre Thanksgiving ABC 7 Hungry Hound segment on Uncle John's BBQ. I just watched the segment, I was out of town over T-day, on the ABC 7 web site and if not for the LTHForum Holiday Party tonight, I'd be heading to Uncle John's.

Well deserved publicity for Mac.

Enjoy,
Gary

Here is a link to the article and here is a link to the podcast of the segment.

Have fun!

G Wiv wrote:LTH,

Steve Dolinsky did a terrific pre Thanksgiving ABC 7 Hungry Hound segment on Uncle John's BBQ. I just watched the segment, I was out of town over T-day, on the ABC 7 web site and if not for the LTHForum Holiday Party tonight, I'd be heading to Uncle John's.

Well deserved publicity for Mac.

Enjoy,
Gary

I didnt see this either, but got first-hand view of it. Had dropped by UJ's
for my usual tip-link combo on the evening of the Wednesday before
T-Day, at about 9ish pm I think... and it was packed to overflowing! A
queue out the door, something Ive never seen before (I usually go at
off-peak hours, and have usually been the only person there). Took well
over 20-odd minutes to even place an order!

Apparently Channel 7 had shown the UJ piece that day itself, at 11am
or so I believe (or so I gathered from talking to a couple of people in
line - at least 3-4 of those I talked to were first-timers, and were all
quizzing me when they found I had actually been there before The
silly thing is, however, that UJ's was apparently not informed of the
day Channel 7 were going to show the piece.

Everyone who asked me, I had the same rec - the tip-link combo, I
said, best in town bar none, especially by far the best link in the
city. And then, when I actually got up there to order... they were
out of tip-links! Since Ch7 had not informed them, the crazy rush
was entirely unexpected, and they were running out of food - had
had to send out for more raw meat during the evening, apparently.
I ended up going with a half-slab (and it was pretty good, but not *the*
best half-slab Ive had from UJ's), and they even forgot to include the
slaw with it (something thats never happened before in a couple
dozen visits).

I hope the new customers liked it - I know at least a few of them
didnt get their tip-link rec'd by me (A couple of them actually
knew Hecky's, but had never heard of UJ's until that day).

Anyway. Went again to UJ's last weekend - about 9pm on a Friday
evening this time IIRC. They had 4-5 customers in line ahead of
me (its an unusual time for me, so I cant be sure business
has picked up - but maybe it indeed has). I did get the tip-link this
time, however, and it was one of the best Ive *ever* gotten
anywhere, even from Mac, quite sublime. He was really on his game last
weekend.

c8w

G Wiv wrote:LTH,

Steve Dolinsky did a terrific pre Thanksgiving ABC 7 Hungry Hound segment on Uncle John's BBQ. I just watched the segment, I was out of town over T-day, on the ABC 7 web site and if not for the LTHForum Holiday Party tonight, I'd be heading to Uncle John's.

Well deserved publicity for Mac.

Enjoy,
Gary

BTW, anyone been to UJ's lately?

The reason I ask... I was there a couple of days ago, over the weekend.
Had the usual excellent tip-link combo (and, I reiterate, there is no finer
BBQ menu item in our fair city). But this time, I asked for fries on the side.

Now, theyre the usual frozen-ish fries I guess, and not always just coming
off the fryer (or, if they are, I dont know, cos they were inside the styrofoam
box and I didnt eat em for 20+ minutes as usual). But, despite being lukewarm
by then and not at all crispy... I could swear they were *seasoned*. This is
new, surely? UJ has never had seasoned fries before, have they? I couldnt
have missed it just because they were covered with sauce?

Despite being lukewarm and non-crispy, they actually tasted pretty damn
good - and not even dunked in the sauce, as usual!

There also seems to be a newish pork dish on the menu, or so it seemed to
me, but I didnt investigate (it may well be what I saw a few visits ago -
Mack doing some sort of "special" pork thing in his rotisserie?)


c8w

I was there on Saturday and although i got the fries on the bottom of my tips, the were definitely seasoned. Some sort of salt/pepper with something else, I think. They tasted excellent, especially after soaking up the porknsmoke from the tips above.

Just went today and it's one of the best slabs of ribs I've ever had. And the best hotlinks, hands down. The fries...no hint of the seasoning I read about in this thread. No taste at all. Just sort of like packing material for your food to keep it safe on your way home.

veeral wrote:I was there on Saturday and although i got the fries on the bottom of my tips, the were definitely seasoned. Some sort of salt/pepper with something else, I think. They tasted excellent, especially after soaking up the porknsmoke from the tips above.

When I had a tip/link/fried chicken combo a couple weekends ago, the fries did have seasoning. In addition to the salt and pepper, it tasted like there was parmesan or romano added to the seasoning.

The tips were good. I liked the coarse grind of the links, and the fried chicken was very good.

--
edc

Is Uncle John's closed?

My wife had a serious jones last night for BBQ. Seemed a perfect reason to try Uncle John's, after reading so much about it here on LTH. We live on the South Side, so it's not a long trip at all.

But, as I drove by, it looked dark and shuttered. I should have stopped to nose around, but the neighborhood isn't the most inviting to begin with.

Since I had to satisfy my wife's BBQ craving, I called 411 for the address and did a detour to Lem's. What a friendly place! I thought the ribs were really good, the rib tips were to die for, and the hot links were OK (a little too charred and dry for my taste in wurst).

Does anyone have any news on Uncle John's, though? I feel like I missed the Second Coming or something.

OK, c'mon now, April Fool's Day is a few weeks away. This is not funny.

Why isn't there an emoticon for nervous???