LTHForum.com

Catsup-a-Thon: Call for Contributions

Heinz has been positioned (in The New Yorker and elsewhere) as the perfect catsup, the epitome of amplitude, appealing to all major palatal sensors (yes, even umami), which must be why we love it, and yet we doubt. We question. Therefore, we must compare...and conclude.

ReneG, C2 and I are currently conceiving ground rules for a Catsup-a-thon, a blind, thoroughly scientific, completely objective, research-based and ultimately definitive evaluation of catsups, major and minor, broadly appealing and boutique, which should provide guidance to all who love (or, as is so common, deny their love yet frequently indulge) in this universal condiment.

And so it is, we call for contributions in the form of recommendations (other than Heinz).

Do you have a favorite brand of catsup? Tell us, so we may represent your chosen catsup in our cavalcade of condiments.

You may or may not decide to join us in the actual sampling, but let us know what you like so that we may, at our whimsy, select a few to sample.

You are perhaps one of those people (like me) who adore catsup and extol its virtues, defiant in the face of unreasoning rejection, or chance may have it you deny yourself the enjoyment of this master sauce owing to deep-seated psychological derangements that even I cannot fathom (hey, I'm no shrink, all right!?). Whatever your orientation, give us your thoughts on the brands, the varieties, the blends of catsup that please you most and, if you care to, join us on a date to be officially announced in the Events section (if you want to plan ahead, it likely will be March 6, at Kevin's Hamburger Heaven, Pershing location, sometime mid-to late-afternoon official announcement to follow in the next week or so).

For now, just tell us what catsup you covet, which one cuddles your meat or potato, what brand you slather and enjoy.

Hammond

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“We all have to stand before the kitchen gods.” Chef Jacob Sahaya Kumar Aruni

Muir Glen Ketchup. I think it's just so much better than any other I have ever tasted. Critics might say it's too thick--too pasty--but I find that to be a virtue. With just the right amount of sweet, salty, sour and spicy (not hot spicy) to accent the explosive tomato firecracker that goes off in your mouth.

Well they no longer have the Guiness ketchup at Bennigan's but if I can find something similiar I'll submit it.

Sometimes the answer is right in front of your face. I'm a Heinz man and haven't ever questioned my brand choice, but I've been so loyal that I really haven't tried other brands (except for metallic tasting brand X Ketchup served at various hot dog stands via pump) since my mother made a mistake and bought DelMonte when I was 12. Maybe I'm simply uneducated, so I'd be more than happy to participate in the tasting...especially at a venue like Kevin's. I have been noticing Brooks Ketchup lately when browsing Lincolnwood Produce. I'll volunteer to bring a bottle of Brooks to the tasting.

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Steve Z.
Photographer/Pseudojournalist

"The only time to eat diet food is while you’re waiting for the steak to cook." - Julia Child

This is an intriguing idea ... at what temperature shall the ketchups be served? Or will we compare chilled to room temperature for each? And will we include the little foil packet ketchups from McDonald's or other fast food spots? (I once heard McDonald's got its ketchup from Huntz, but would it be worth the comparison?) For what it's worth, apparently the people of the Ukraine are mightily glad for their McDonald's ketchup: Ketchup in the Ukraine

JILS,

The experimental variables of this tightly controlled study are still being determined, but I would argue for room temp (condiments will be housed in labeled lab containers, and should come up to temp while we wait for burgers, fries, and, if C2 has her way, tiny plastic spoons).

I'd lay money that McDonald's uses Heinz.

Hammond

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“We all have to stand before the kitchen gods.” Chef Jacob Sahaya Kumar Aruni

Oh, yeah? I've got $3.69 that says you're wrong, buster. But realize I'm not necessarily wagering that I am right they use Hunt's. Unh-unh. Specifically, I'll wager $3.69 that it is Hunt's or, if it's not Hunt's, McDonald's uses a variant of Heinz with even more corn syrup in it than the over-the-counter variety, and we'll be able to taste the difference. And I have full confidence that the scientific sampling and measuring methods to be employed (including, I presume, QAPP, H&S, QA/QC and chain of custody protocols consistent with the latest ASTM standard for condiment sampling and comparison, CS 1979-02), will ensure utter objectivity and scientific certainty ... thus my willingness to wager so extravagently, David. I laugh heartily in anticipation. Ha-Ha-Ha!

Don't the McDonald's ketchup packs have Heinz 57 bottles on the back? I'm pretty sure they did at one time, anyway. However, I suspect that the ketchup is reformulated to better match McD's preference for more sugar and no strong worcestershiry or vinegary notes.

In any case, it's definitely not Hunt's, which has a flatter, brassier taste easily distinguishable from Heinz.

I also strongly urge Muir Glen. It's so much more fresh-tomato tasting that it probably seems wrong to many people.

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Thanks for the offer but I think they will all be provided. Many have already been procured. Details will follow.


I had a feeling this would come up. All bottles will be recently purchased, freshly opened, and served at cool room temperature in numbered plastic tubs (each participant will get a small sample of each ketchup). The bottles will be hidden in numbered opaque bags. Evaluation forms will be provided.


I seem to remember that maybe 10 years ago the McD's pouches had the Heinz logo on them. It's not there now. According to this almost-year-old link to Forbe's, McCormick supplies (or supplied) the US McD's with ketchup (and Special Sauce) but Heinz has the contract in Canada.

SteveZ, thanks for the generous offer and glad you can make it. We will post more details (though NOT the final list of products to be sampled) in the Events thread at a scientifically appropriate interval prior to the scheduled experimental launch date of March 6, 2005.

You wouldn't happen to have any lab-type tools in your studio, would you?

Hammond

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“We all have to stand before the kitchen gods.” Chef Jacob Sahaya Kumar Aruni

[quote="David HammondYou wouldn't happen to have any lab-type tools in your studio, would you?

Hammond[/quote]

Other than a lab coat and a stethoscope, no. But I'll be glad to wear the lab coat if that helps in the effort. Maybe we sould invite Chef Cantu and ask him to bring the beakers. BTW, I live just minutes away from American Science & Surplus where lab equipment can be procured at really low prices. Let me know what we need.

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Steve Z.
Photographer/Pseudojournalist

"The only time to eat diet food is while you’re waiting for the steak to cook." - Julia Child

I'd come to watch, but tasting to catsup sounds, perhaps, not that appealing.

There's a Polish catsup we see a lot in the markets on the NW side. I can pick that up.

Rob

Hammond,

I recommend Jufran Banana Catsup from the Philippines, both regular and hot. I be happy to bring a bottle of each to the Catsup-a-Thon if you wish.

Enjoy,
Gary

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Sauce on the side, always, implied, axiomatic..........never a doubt, BBQ sauce without.

Low & Slow

SteveZ, VI, and Gary, thanks for offers of catsup. ReneG, C2 and I are still working out experimental protocols, and we may opt to simply provide the catsup to ensure that most of us taste blind, but details will follow.

We're also trying to work out a very simple set of evaluation parameters; we'd probably like to keep it simple, maybe have just 5-6 critieria against which we will judge every catsup in the lineup (which probably should not exceed 10). So far, we're thinking that we might evaluate catsups in terms of viscosity, amplitude (flavor balance), things like that. In this area, too, we are seeking people to contribute their ideas. How best might one determine (with absolute objectivity and utmost scientific rigor) which catsup is the best? What would be the appropriate evaluation critieria for ranking catsup quality?

Hammond

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“We all have to stand before the kitchen gods.” Chef Jacob Sahaya Kumar Aruni

David:

I like catchup and catsup and, when in an especially anarkistik mood, ketchup as well, especially the produkts of Amerikan korporations, but to my mind they all fall short of one of the truly great kulinary produkts of the United Kingdom, namely HP Sauce.* I suggest you add a bottle of this ekskwisite kondiment to the katalogue of challengers, just to shake things up a bit.

Antonius

* And this I say despite all sorts of historical grudges.

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Alle Nerven exzitiert von dem gewürzten Wein -- Anwandlung von Todesahndungen -- Doppeltgänger --
- aus dem Tagebuch E.T.A. Hoffmanns, 6. Januar 1804.
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Na sir is na seachain an cath.

This facinates me if for only one reason.

Yes, David Hammond, I admit, I am one of those people who "simply refuse, insanely, arrogantly, to admit they like catsup."

I will make no such admission. Catsup is the only food on the planet that I cannot abide by. I feel it ruins everything it touches. But, by "Catsup", I mean "Ketchup" of the Heinz/Hunt's varieties. I am sure that there are ethnic or gourmet Catsups that I may very well enjoy.

In college, I had a roommate who would eat nothing. He took no joy in eating. He would only eat from a list of about 5-10 items, which included of plain cheese pizza (preferably Stouffer's Frech Bread Pizza), plain hamburgers (no condiments), Chips Ahoy cookies, and Frosted Mini Wheats.

I adpoted the personal goal to be the exact culinary opposite of my roommate (who remains one of my closest friends). I believed that the only way to allow him to continue to eat on this planet was to be the exact opposite. I would be the Superman of eating, he would be my Bizzaro.

I began to feed myself varieties of all the foods that I claimed to dislike (a short list): olives, sun-dried tomatoes, spinach, and catsup. I spent months exploring the nuances of all of these foods.

The results: Today, I have no less than 3 varieties of olives in my home at any given time. Spinach is a common ingredient in my cooking. I find the flavor of sun-dried tomatoes tolerable and interesting. Catsup remains, my kryptonite.

The ability to tolerate this condiment is the final attribute I must accquire before I have achieved my life's goal of negating my friend's culinary pig-headedness.

If I cannot attend, I look forward to the results of your a-thon. It may provide the answers that I have (not really) been looking for).

(FYI, my friend and ex-roommate has since spent many years studying in France and has significantly expanded his palette, aided, no doubt, by many dinners of tete du mouton, served by his host family).

Best,
Michael / EC

If I come, should I bring a bag of canadian Catsup Chips?

They're like bbq chips.. only even more cloyingly sweet. They're only edible if you shovel them as fast as possible into your mouth. And even then, you get this overly sweet aftertaste for a long time afterwards.

Yuck.

Good luck with the catsup tasting, folks. Are you going to be using a delivery medium, or straight tasting with spoons, or both?

A good catsup should work well with fries, after all

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Ed Fisher
my chicago food photos

RIP LTH.

Hey folks,

A billion Indians think they have the best ketchup going. It's plenty sweet, just like ours, but with a definite masala flavor. It tends towards the aromatic curry spices: cardamom, clove, cinammon, just a little coriander, just a little mustard seed. There are dozens of ketchup brands available in India, all as close in flavor as Heinz is to Hunts. The only one I've seen over here is Deccan brand.

If you all are feasting on Ketchup, stop by Patel Bros. and pick up some of the Indian stuff.

Regards,

Alex

ps - If you're ever inclined to experiment with Indianized junk food, masala flavored doritos are hoooooooorrrrrible.

I knew someone who dipped their potato chips in ketchup. Ugh. Then I discovered Herr's. A wonderful tasting ketchup chip. I tried another brand IIRC J D Higgs which was just not the same. For them and other snack info:

http://www.taquitos.net

Alex, I think that sounds absolutely fantastic, reminiscent of kecap manis, the uber catsup. Although the actual catsups we will select for tasting remain a mystery (even to me -- and that's just how I want it), I hope there is a representative from the subcontinent.

Hammond

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“We all have to stand before the kitchen gods.” Chef Jacob Sahaya Kumar Aruni

Look, I don't give a hoot about these kinds of details. Just let me know when you establish a place and a time for your little "event." I need to coordinate the protest.

Erik M.

And you would be a representative of...what? The Tomato Defense League? Puree Purists Internationale?

Hammond

Note: If we do meet at KHH on Pershing, firearms must be left at the door...which is bad news for you, as your kung-fu is WEAK!

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“We all have to stand before the kitchen gods.” Chef Jacob Sahaya Kumar Aruni

David:

In an Eastern-European grocery today I saw a line of 4 or 5 different ketchup produkts (yes, I feel slightly anarkistic this day), the provenance of which is Moldava. I intentionally withhold further details until you (1) agree to honour HP sauce and (2) release Gennarino to a half-way house.

Anton

_________________
Alle Nerven exzitiert von dem gewürzten Wein -- Anwandlung von Todesahndungen -- Doppeltgänger --
- aus dem Tagebuch E.T.A. Hoffmanns, 6. Januar 1804.
________
Na sir is na seachain an cath.

is not kecap manis the ur-catsup?

Anton, I might easily honor HP sauce...but you can forget about the monkey: "She" is mine.



VI, that's what I meant, thanks, but perhaps it would have been even more correct to call kecap manis a "proto-catsup" in that is was an identifiable forerunner or first type of catsup rather than some ancient, vaguely remembered ancestor of the condiment.

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“We all have to stand before the kitchen gods.” Chef Jacob Sahaya Kumar Aruni

In addition to taste, viscosity, color (or coloUr, in deference to AntonioUs and his neighboUrhoods... relax, mein Freund, nur Spass machen...) and general condimentality (like that little neologism?) ketchup must be judged by such qualities as: how closely it resembles blood (for anyone who's ever been on the set of a grade-Z film or been involved in an elementary school Halloween production); velocity (when squeezed out of a packet in an oh-so-satisfying arc) and how good it tastes when matched with french fries, scrambled eggs, plain hamburgers (meaning no cheese, but other condiments possible) and, of course, hot dogs. (No, Gene! Not in the balls! Ow! Jude, put that knife down! Fluky, you fuck, it was a joke! A JOKE! AAHHHH!!!!!) Ahem...

On the serious tip, I remember that my hometown diner in Jersey served Campbell's ketchup, which my brother and I always liked much more than Heinz (still a standard bearer) Hunt's (yeccchh) and Del Monte (huh?). Anyone ever tried or even SEEN Campbell's ketchup in the last 20 years? Really good, at least to a 12 year old. I'll second Antonius' HP sauce and raise him this little suggestion - Thomy brand Curry Ketchup, available at finer German supermarkets everywhere (Meyer on Lincoln has curry ketchup, not sure if it's Thomy (the Ueber-Marke of German condiments) or some bo-bo brand.) Can't have a proper Currywurscht sans Curry Ketchup. Some weird shit right there. I'd also nominate, if I can find it (solely for weirdness' sake as well) a failed Thomy experiment in condimentia (ooooh - I'm on a roll tonight), namely, mayo and ketchup together in the same collapsible metal tube (remember this, Antonius??). When squeezed out onto a plate, it looked like the condimental equivalent of Aqua-Fresh. Schmeckt gut, oder?? Yeah, sure...

Rebbe

Rebbe,

See, I don't consider "velocity" an appropriate catsup value (though I could be convinced otherwise). The catsup with the highest velocity would, by definition, also have the highest water content and thus such a value would be characterisitic of the very worst that catsup can be: watery. If it flows fast, it would also slip quickly off, for instance, a weiner (and I have no problem with catsup on a hot dog or other sausage).

We intend to test catsups on the media of the French fry and hamburger, as well as the plain cracker.

I will endeavor to deploy "condimentality" into my everyday conversations about catsup.

Prends garde avec la langue,

David "I'll Pardon Your French if You Pardon Mine" Hammond

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“We all have to stand before the kitchen gods.” Chef Jacob Sahaya Kumar Aruni

I'm not sure if velocity matters either, but perhaps, like golf, a lower score could be considered better.

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Steve Z.
Photographer/Pseudojournalist

"The only time to eat diet food is while you’re waiting for the steak to cook." - Julia Child

I consider this a fools' errand, so I guess I'm in if the timing is right. No one has mentioned the hometown favorite (sort of) Red Gold. This catsup is what one puts on one's duck fat frites at Hot Doug's. I find that Red Gold's canned tomatoes taste like catsup already. Not suitable for "Sunday gravy," but maybe ok for catsup.

See, I don't consider "velocity" an appropriate catsup value (though I could be convinced otherwise). The catsup with the highest velocity would, by definition, also have the highest water content and thus such a value would be characterisitic of the very worst that catsup can be: watery. If it flows fast, it would also slip quickly off, for instance, a weiner (and I have no problem with catsup on a hot dog or other sausage).


David,

Well, the thinness which gives a particular catsup its velocity could be attributed to a higher than normal vinegar content. Granted, this might lead to a particularly sharp tasting condiment, but this can be compensated for by good spices and better than average tomato paste. I was just making the point that a catsup's viability and quality is sometimes measured in extra-culinary elements. The old perfectly-aimed catsup packet stomp remains a rite of passage for adolescent jerks everywhere. Surely the good people at Heinz, Hunt's, Del Monte, etc... can't overlook the CPSAJ demographic. Campbell's was only available in glass bottles, sadly. What a nice taste, though. More bright, tomatoey, and piquant than any of the big 3 brands. A really good catsup made by what is probably the most iconic American brand of all time. Stomping a glass bottle, though - that's just a recipe for a big ol' mess and/or lockjaw. By the way, should we include hoi sin in this catsup challenge? I mean, for years it was called the "Chinese catsup." I believe La Choy even tried to market their (insipid and bland) variety of hoi sin as such, complete with the happy, smiling, Americanized non-threatening Chinese woman in the ads. Perhaps, with the dozen or so brands of hoi sin one can readily find in Chicago, a hoi-sin off is in the works?!!!? Sure, see how each hoi sin compares when put on peking duck pancakes, spring rolls, and, uh... hot dogs.. from.. Gene and Jude's... JUST KIDDING!!! PUT THE CLEAVER DOWN!! AHHH!!! Seriously, I'd vote for Lee Kum Kee. Nothing surprising, but consistent from bottle to bottle. Hmm... Mayo-off? Relish challenge? Kraut-a-thon? Mustard madness? 24 hours of pickle? When in the course of human worcestershire? 4 score and 7 chili sauces ago? The soy sauce series? Christ, I need a valium.

Rebbe