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Standing Rib Roast Disaster

Standing Rib Roast Disaster
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  • Standing Rib Roast Disaster

    Post #1 - December 27th, 2017, 10:58 pm
    Post #1 - December 27th, 2017, 10:58 pm Post #1 - December 27th, 2017, 10:58 pm
    My wife tried to cook a roast starting at about 460 degrees then lowering the temperature to about 325 degrees. Roast was a 3 rib roast in a pan with about 2 inch sides. There was more smoke than California wildfire. The oven was to splattered. I have seen methods from starting at 500 degrees for 5 min a pound then turning off the oven for 2 hours. another was a reverse sear and yet another low temperature and a high finishing. Her turned out ok but the house was smoke filled and the oven a greasy disaster. Any ideas as to how to do one would be appreciated
    Thanks
    lowjones
  • Post #2 - December 27th, 2017, 11:09 pm
    Post #2 - December 27th, 2017, 11:09 pm Post #2 - December 27th, 2017, 11:09 pm
    http://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2009 ... ecipe.html

    This is my go to and leads to a great version. My biggest tip would be to use the internal temps as the deciding factor and the times as just a guide
  • Post #3 - December 28th, 2017, 12:19 am
    Post #3 - December 28th, 2017, 12:19 am Post #3 - December 28th, 2017, 12:19 am
    WhyBeeSea wrote:http://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2009/12/perfect-prime-rib-beef-recipe.html

    This is my go to and leads to a great version. My biggest tip would be to use the internal temps as the deciding factor and the times as just a guide
    I followed this method with great results for a wee one-bone rib roast weighing around 2.5 pounds.

    The smoke alarm in the hall did go off during the 10-minute final blast of heat. I have heard of people taking a propane torch to get the crispy exterior.

    Regards,
    Cathy2
    Cathy2

    "You'll be remembered long after you're dead if you make good gravy, mashed potatoes and biscuits." -- Nathalie Dupree
    Facebook, Twitter, Greater Midwest Foodways, Road Food 2012: Podcast
  • Post #4 - December 28th, 2017, 1:17 am
    Post #4 - December 28th, 2017, 1:17 am Post #4 - December 28th, 2017, 1:17 am
    This Alton Brown method has always worked perfectly for me (I've never tried the actual recipe, though):

    http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/alto ... pe-1939502

    =R=
    There's a horse loose in a hospital -- JM

    I am not interested in how I would evaluate the Springbank in a blind tasting. Every spirit has its story, and I include it in my evaluation, just as I do with human beings. --Thad Vogler

    I'll be the tastiest pork cutlet bowl ever --Yuri Katsuki

    That don't impress me much --Shania Twain
  • Post #5 - December 28th, 2017, 3:33 am
    Post #5 - December 28th, 2017, 3:33 am Post #5 - December 28th, 2017, 3:33 am
    lowjones wrote:I have seen methods from starting at 500 degrees for 5 min a pound then turning off the oven for 2 hours.


    I seem to remember some chatter a few years back regarding how the "residual heat" method from a turned off oven was resulting in overcooked roasts as newer ovens were better insulated than ones used when the technique was developed.

    FWIW,
    Dave
  • Post #6 - December 28th, 2017, 7:24 am
    Post #6 - December 28th, 2017, 7:24 am Post #6 - December 28th, 2017, 7:24 am
    If you put the roast in a V-rack keeping it off the bottom of the pan, and then pour water in the pan ( not high enough to touch the roast ) the fat in the bottom of the pan will not smoke. As the water boils off, add additional.
  • Post #7 - December 28th, 2017, 9:59 am
    Post #7 - December 28th, 2017, 9:59 am Post #7 - December 28th, 2017, 9:59 am
    lougord99 wrote:If you put the roast in a V-rack keeping it off the bottom of the pan, and then pour water in the pan ( not high enough to touch the roast ) the fat in the bottom of the pan will not smoke. As the water boils off, add additional.

    This is correct however if you use the low-then-high method (to which I linked above) it isn't even necessary.

    =R=
    There's a horse loose in a hospital -- JM

    I am not interested in how I would evaluate the Springbank in a blind tasting. Every spirit has its story, and I include it in my evaluation, just as I do with human beings. --Thad Vogler

    I'll be the tastiest pork cutlet bowl ever --Yuri Katsuki

    That don't impress me much --Shania Twain
  • Post #8 - December 28th, 2017, 2:04 pm
    Post #8 - December 28th, 2017, 2:04 pm Post #8 - December 28th, 2017, 2:04 pm
    Definitely agree with the low-to-high method. I just used it a few days ago for a four-bone choice rib roast (that we got here in Phoenix for under $6/lb!) and it was as good as anything I've ever been served in a restaurant. I've been doing the "reverse sear" for over a decade now, and it's a better method than the traditional high-to-low method. The cooking is much more even with the low temp (so minimal banding of doneness levels within the meat), plus the outside of the meat dries up so it browns much better when you finish it off with high heat. Also, the slow roasting doesn't really require much, if any, rest time.
  • Post #9 - December 28th, 2017, 2:36 pm
    Post #9 - December 28th, 2017, 2:36 pm Post #9 - December 28th, 2017, 2:36 pm
    Binko wrote:Also, the slow roasting doesn't really require much, if any, rest time.

    Effectively the rest time is spent waiting for the oven temperature to rise to 550 degrees. You can hold the meat for up to 90 minutes before the final blast, so it gives you time to deal with other last minute details or late arriving guests.

    Remove roast from oven and tent loosely with aluminum foil. Place in a warm spot in the kitchen and allow to rest for at least 30 minutes and up to 1 1/2 hours. Meanwhile, preheat oven to highest possible temperature setting, 500 to 550°F (260 to 288°C).

    After the final 10-minute sear, it is straight onto the table with all the fat crackling. Almost better than fireworks!
    Cathy2

    "You'll be remembered long after you're dead if you make good gravy, mashed potatoes and biscuits." -- Nathalie Dupree
    Facebook, Twitter, Greater Midwest Foodways, Road Food 2012: Podcast
  • Post #10 - December 29th, 2017, 2:36 pm
    Post #10 - December 29th, 2017, 2:36 pm Post #10 - December 29th, 2017, 2:36 pm
    A 24 hour dry brine then roasted off the bone at 225 until right at 125 degrees internally. Wrap up and insulate for up to half hour (hence the 125, not 130) while finishing up potatoes and vegetables. Slice and serve. I generally don't see the need for any quick, hot blast at the end of roasting. Rosy red all the way though.
  • Post #11 - December 29th, 2017, 3:01 pm
    Post #11 - December 29th, 2017, 3:01 pm Post #11 - December 29th, 2017, 3:01 pm
    Rick T. wrote: I generally don't see the need for any quick, hot blast at the end of roasting. Rosy red all the way though.


    To each their own, but I feel there's a LOT of flavor there in the searing. That crackly, brown outside is as important to me as the interior of the roast.
  • Post #12 - December 29th, 2017, 3:18 pm
    Post #12 - December 29th, 2017, 3:18 pm Post #12 - December 29th, 2017, 3:18 pm
    I'm with Rick T on that point. I want as much of the interior as possible to be uniformly medium rare. That's what prime rib is all about for me. I don't care how crackly if at all the exterior is. So, I think that's an insight for me; if that's the only reason for the initial or final high heat blast, I presume I can skip that step.
    "I would gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today."
  • Post #13 - December 29th, 2017, 3:24 pm
    Post #13 - December 29th, 2017, 3:24 pm Post #13 - December 29th, 2017, 3:24 pm
    I'm with Binko. I want it all, especially if I'm investing this much time and money on making a large rib roast. The cap is every bit as desirable as the interior of the roast (if not more so).

    Also, I think that sometimes, depending on how much exterior fat there is, the hot blast at the end becomes almost necessary because otherwise the fat that's there ends up not being palatable at all. It just doesn't render out enough when you cook the roast at 200-250 F. So 3-4 minutes in each direction does wonders to transform that outer layer into something magical.

    =R=
    There's a horse loose in a hospital -- JM

    I am not interested in how I would evaluate the Springbank in a blind tasting. Every spirit has its story, and I include it in my evaluation, just as I do with human beings. --Thad Vogler

    I'll be the tastiest pork cutlet bowl ever --Yuri Katsuki

    That don't impress me much --Shania Twain
  • Post #14 - December 29th, 2017, 5:12 pm
    Post #14 - December 29th, 2017, 5:12 pm Post #14 - December 29th, 2017, 5:12 pm
    ronnie_suburban wrote:I'm with Binko. I want it all, especially if I'm investing this much time and money on making a large rib roast. The cap is every bit as desirable as the interior of the roast (if not more so).

    Also, I think that sometimes, depending on how much exterior fat there is, the hot blast at the end becomes almost necessary because otherwise the fat that's there ends up not being palatable at all. It just doesn't render out enough when you cook the roast at 200-250 F. So 3-4 minutes in each direction does wonders to transform that outer layer into something magical.

    =R=

    Absolutely! Sure, it will still be tasty without the high heat blast, but it will not be as wonderful as with it, including because of the possibly unrendered fat.
    I find the pastrami to be the most sensual of all the salted, cured meats. (Seinfeld)

    Twitter: brbinchicago
  • Post #15 - December 29th, 2017, 6:06 pm
    Post #15 - December 29th, 2017, 6:06 pm Post #15 - December 29th, 2017, 6:06 pm
    Katie wrote:if that's the only reason for the initial or final high heat blast, I presume I can skip that step.


    Yes, that is the reason for the searing, whether pre- or post-roasting: to encourage the Maillard/browning reaction (which builds additional flavors, which is why we brown meat in general before stewing), and to crisp up/additionally render the fat. It's not something you need to do, depending on your tastes, but there's a series of chemical reactions involving amino acids and sugars that give the roast a distinct beefy "browned" taste. (Mind you, I don't always brown meat for stews, like for some veal stews, for instance, where I don't want that "browned" flavor, but something milder and more delicate.)
  • Post #16 - December 30th, 2017, 11:23 am
    Post #16 - December 30th, 2017, 11:23 am Post #16 - December 30th, 2017, 11:23 am
    Just to clarify, I like the surface of a roast brown; I don't need it crispy. I certainly think a bit of high heat in the oven is less hassle than wrangling a roast in a frying pan or Dutch oven to brown the surfaces before oven roasting, as some recipes suggest.
    "I would gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today."
  • Post #17 - December 30th, 2017, 11:38 am
    Post #17 - December 30th, 2017, 11:38 am Post #17 - December 30th, 2017, 11:38 am
    Katie,

    You may want to read the article related to this recipe. Since Kenji once worked for America's Test Kitchen, he presents a lot of details on the success and failures of the various steps before reaching an ideal.

    WhyBeeSea wrote:http://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2009/12/perfect-prime-rib-beef-recipe.html


    Since you are an engineer, you will enjoy the thought path as well as the final result. :D

    Regards,
    Cathy2
    Cathy2

    "You'll be remembered long after you're dead if you make good gravy, mashed potatoes and biscuits." -- Nathalie Dupree
    Facebook, Twitter, Greater Midwest Foodways, Road Food 2012: Podcast
  • Post #18 - December 30th, 2017, 12:01 pm
    Post #18 - December 30th, 2017, 12:01 pm Post #18 - December 30th, 2017, 12:01 pm
    Katie wrote:Just to clarify, I like the surface of a roast brown; I don't need it crispy. I certainly think a bit of high heat in the oven is less hassle than wrangling a roast in a frying pan or Dutch oven to brown the surfaces before oven roasting, as some recipes suggest.


    Yes, the browning is done in the oven at the end. When the roast finishes cooking, you just stick it in a 500-550F oven (however hot you can get it; my mother-in-law's only gets to 500), for 8-10 minutes to finish. Beautiful browning ensues. It's much easier and yields a better, more thorough result than browning the roast on a pan.
  • Post #19 - January 1st, 2018, 10:16 pm
    Post #19 - January 1st, 2018, 10:16 pm Post #19 - January 1st, 2018, 10:16 pm
    Cathy2 wrote:Katie,

    You may want to read the article related to this recipe. Since Kenji once worked for America's Test Kitchen, he presents a lot of details on the success and failures of the various steps before reaching an ideal.

    WhyBeeSea wrote:http://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2009/12/perfect-prime-rib-beef-recipe.html


    Since you are an engineer, you will enjoy the thought path as well as the final result. :D

    Regards,
    Cathy2

    Already got that bookmarked. Thanks! You are right --- I am a big fan of Kenji and his experimental methods.
    "I would gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today."
  • Post #20 - January 2nd, 2018, 10:41 pm
    Post #20 - January 2nd, 2018, 10:41 pm Post #20 - January 2nd, 2018, 10:41 pm
    I actually did the low-then-high method for a 5-bone, 11 pounder on a rack in a roasting pan on a gas grill (which is basically an oven, albeit with heating elements only below) and it worked out great. I've got a built-in gas and Big Green Egg combo at our new house, so it was low (225ish) for a while on the gas then over to the Egg at low heat while the gas grill got cranked up to 550 and then finished back on the gas grill. I've done it start to finish before in the Egg but this led to more of an oven-cooked taste rather than a charcoal/wood-smoked taste, which was appropriate for the occasion (and allowed me to use the bones and trimmings for a nice beef stock in the Instant Pot that was not overly smoky).

    When we were designing the outdoor space, I was skeptical about the gas grill (although my wife wanted to have it so as to not have to bother with charcoal for quick weeknight meals), but putting aside any uses for it as a grill, I've actually found it to be a nice auxiliary second oven/warmer for holidays and other occasions where the oven is otherwise occupied. Bonus in that you don't have to worry about smoke alarms.
  • Post #21 - January 3rd, 2018, 4:40 am
    Post #21 - January 3rd, 2018, 4:40 am Post #21 - January 3rd, 2018, 4:40 am
    Matt wrote:When we were designing the outdoor space, I was skeptical about the gas grill (although my wife wanted to have it so as to not have to bother with charcoal for quick weeknight meals), but putting aside any uses for it as a grill, I've actually found it to be a nice auxiliary second oven/warmer for holidays and other occasions where the oven is otherwise occupied. Bonus in that you don't have to worry about smoke alarms.


    Heh. I finally broke down and got a gas grill last summer when we moved into the new place. As a student of the kettle and WSM, I felt a bit dirty and unfaithful when I went shopping around and got a budget buy $400 4-burner Char-grill with some "TRU-infrared" mumbo jumbo and a side burner. But you know what? Best frickin' $400 I spent in awhile. That thing got so much use last year, not just as an extra oven, but as a grill. And my wife was so happy, because I wasn't stinking and heating up the kitchen in the summer. (It was her who pretty much insisted I buy it for myself as a housewarming present, but I know she really just wanted to get me cooking outside more often. :) ) I want to say I feel shameful, but I don't. I'm just kicking myself for being so stubbornly opinionated against gas grills my whole life. There's a place for both.
  • Post #22 - January 4th, 2018, 5:18 pm
    Post #22 - January 4th, 2018, 5:18 pm Post #22 - January 4th, 2018, 5:18 pm
    Again this Christmas I used Cook's recipe for roast beef + weck sandwiches. I presume that it's Kenji's recipe, since he was director of their test kitchen when the recipe was published. The cut is an eye of round, mine was c. 6lb. Salt it thoroughly, plastic wrap and refrigerate for 24 hours. Then brown it intensely in oil, sit on a v-rack, and pop it into a 225°F oven until internal temp is 115°F, then shut off oven and let the residual heat bring the roast up to 125-130°F for medium rare. This is a bullet-proof technique, I've never had a fail.

    It's interesting to me to contrast this method with the Kenji method for standing rib roasts. I presume that because the end-state uses–sliced for sandwiches v. whole ribs–the techniques are somewhat different.

    But it's clear that slow-roasting and beef are extremely well suited to each other.

    Geo
    Sooo, you like wine and are looking for something good to read? Maybe *this* will do the trick! :)
  • Post #23 - January 4th, 2018, 6:32 pm
    Post #23 - January 4th, 2018, 6:32 pm Post #23 - January 4th, 2018, 6:32 pm
    Ya know, I've tried that method on eye of round, and, while it's better than other eye of round methods I've tried, I've just never been happy with eye of round. I've completely given up on that cut. The difference in technique may have to do with the leanness of the meat. I know with beef tenderloin, one of the techniques on Serious Eats does not recommend blasting it with 550 at the end for this reason, but instead has you sear in a pan, though at the end, instead of the beginning as with the eye of round recipe. Apparently the leanness (and I would also assume the more compact nature of the cut) leads to overcooking if you try to do the 8-10 minute blast in a hot over vs. pan searing or broiling at the end.
  • Post #24 - January 5th, 2018, 4:16 pm
    Post #24 - January 5th, 2018, 4:16 pm Post #24 - January 5th, 2018, 4:16 pm
    I've had the same experience applying the Cook's Illustrated method to eye of round. It's arguably the best it's going to get as roasts go, but it's still an eye of round.
    "I would gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today."
  • Post #25 - January 6th, 2018, 7:33 pm
    Post #25 - January 6th, 2018, 7:33 pm Post #25 - January 6th, 2018, 7:33 pm
    I would like to thank everyone for all the help and suggestions
    Lowjones
  • Post #26 - January 19th, 2018, 11:56 am
    Post #26 - January 19th, 2018, 11:56 am Post #26 - January 19th, 2018, 11:56 am
    Rick T. wrote:A 24 hour dry brine then roasted off the bone at 225 until right at 125 degrees internally. Wrap up and insulate for up to half hour (hence the 125, not 130) while finishing up potatoes and vegetables. Slice and serve. I generally don't see the need for any quick, hot blast at the end of roasting. Rosy red all the way though.


    the sear at the end is for the Maillard reaction to get that umami flavor on the outside of the roast. Otherwise that sounds good, if you don't have a sous vide.
  • Post #27 - January 19th, 2018, 9:18 pm
    Post #27 - January 19th, 2018, 9:18 pm Post #27 - January 19th, 2018, 9:18 pm
    Thanks......

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