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Your thoughts?

http://www.chitowndailynews.org/Chicago ... _ordinance

Does anyone raise or know of anyone who raises chickens in Chicago?

Hi,

I heard about this on the radio today. I was also wondering who was raising chickens in the city.

When I was 10 or 11, a neighbor gave a duckling and chick for Easter. The chick turned into a rooster who called out at sunrise. They built a pen for both birds in their backyard, which all the neighborhood kids came to visit. I just cannot imagine my current brood of neighbors in Highland Park tolerating this today.

Regards,

_________________
Cathy2

"You'll be remembered long after you're dead if you make good gravy, mashed potatoes and biscuits." -- Nathalie Dupree
Facebook, Twitter, Greater Midwest Foodways, Road Food 2012: Podcast

I have a friend living around Western and Roosevelt with a neighbor who is raising a couple chickens, maybe a rooster, but definitely a goat in a couryard. The goat is hard to miss. Raised for food we are assuming. Whether milk and eggs or meat I can only guess. I would also gander that the owners of said animals were not particularly concerned about "sustainable local food systems" or "reducing their carbon footprint" as mentioned in the article.

I found it all a little amusing, but I could certainly see it as a contribution to the city rat problem. That said, I wish our fine Aldermen would spend more time on other issues (lowering taxes, improving schools, lowering crime) than on back lot chickens.

This is an odd coincidence as just last week I was investigating whether Oak Park had such an ordinance. As far as I can tell, you can keep two chickens in Oak Park.

I find it hard to believe that rats enjoy eating chicken feces.

_________________
i used to milk cows

Hi,

Several years ago, there was an article on Chicago's Rat Patrol. They claimed dog feces, high in protein, are filet mignon to rats. If this is true, then chicken guano* (just to make it more exotic) is the appetizer.

*Guano: A substance composed chiefly of the dung of sea birds or bats, accumulated along certain coastal areas or in caves and used as fertilizer.

Regards,

_________________
Cathy2

"You'll be remembered long after you're dead if you make good gravy, mashed potatoes and biscuits." -- Nathalie Dupree
Facebook, Twitter, Greater Midwest Foodways, Road Food 2012: Podcast

I've been wanting to have a goat or sheep - for milk and knitting.

But I can well imagine rats eating dung, chicken or otherwise. They are known to like dog poo. Chicken dung is regularly fed to cows. While you can not feed leftover cow parts to cows, you can grind them up, feed them to chickens, and then feed the chicken manure to cows - as well as the leftovers of whatever spills from the food and is swept up with the manure.

_________________
Leek
SAVING ONE DOG MAY NOT CHANGE THE WORLD, BUT IT CHANGES THE WORLD FOR THAT ONE DOG.
American Brittany Rescue always needs foster homes. Please think about helping that one dog.
http://www.americanbrittanyrescue.org

You can feed chicken manure to cows because it is high in ammonia, which is digestible to the rumen flora in cows. Rats are not ruminants, though maybe they find it appetizing.

You can feed cows chemical lawn fertilizer too (urea).

Chickens are scavengers that eat grains, seeds, bugs, and trash. Seems like they would clean up the area and make it less appealing to rats.

_________________
i used to milk cows

Evanston had a big to-do about this a while back - I knew the rooster owner (you could sometimes hear or see El Gallo if you visited Penny Park; though he hasn't been around for several years now, probably found his way to dinner by now) Sun-Times: Neighbors make a squawk about bid to root out rooster... Funniest of all, the City Council Minutes on that issue...they eventually gave a special-use permit. This must be a common issue, if it wound up in a well-to-do neighborhood in the suburbs.

One of the issues about allowing people to raise poultry is that it can provide cover for cockfighting rings. (which was the original concern of neighbors who brought up El Gallo) They can also be noisy and not very clean, especially in tight quarters, although, like the article states, if you have responsible owners, you won't have these problems. Similar concerns have been raised over raising Vietnamese potbellied pigs as pets.

I wonder if this will cause the live poultry stores to close...

_________________
No guts, no glory.
http://www.chicagonow.com/quips-travails-braised-oxtails
http://quipstravailsandbraisedoxtails.blogspot.com/

Hi,

Live poultry stores are regulated and monitored. Those stores are not raising chickens, rather they are delivered to be sold and processed.

In rural McHenry last summer, I met a gal who raised and sold chickens. She advised her Mexican clients took the chickens home live. She wondered if their wives were really delighted or ticked off receiving those live chickens. It certainly is a lot of work to slaughter, dress and cook.

Regards,

_________________
Cathy2

"You'll be remembered long after you're dead if you make good gravy, mashed potatoes and biscuits." -- Nathalie Dupree
Facebook, Twitter, Greater Midwest Foodways, Road Food 2012: Podcast

This thread has given me more reason not to eat chicken or beef on a regular basis... (the whole feeding each animal's feces and selves to each other part). I thank you for the information though.

Or you could buy meat raised the way you like it.

_________________
i used to milk cows

Or you could raise your own, Jay K-- which is the worry of those threatened by this ordinance.

I am still a bit confused about what most chicken-raising looks like in Chicago. Since it is a city, I imagine that there's a shortage of space in most cases so they're kept in coops. When I spent more of my time living in rural CT last year, we had a chicken who showed up one day and started to gather her own food by foraging earthworms, eating the ants that crawled into the house, and pecking the bugs off of the plants in the garden. For that summer we had an ant free house and a much better crop (and fertilized!) all because of the chicken-- not to mention the best eggs I've ever eaten!! The chicken was very clean, pretty quiet and became a nice companion.

I imagine that having chickens in a city is somewhat different-- neighbors may not be as fond of them because they do squak a bit, there's less space for her poop to go freely. But overall chickens are great, as long as they're treated great.

You know, I was thinking about this issue the other day - while considering my poor garden and our local regulations on killing critters like rabbits and squirrels. Many people react to eating creatures of this kind, especially city-dwelling ones, with revulsion at the animal's probable diet - but, truthfully, are the creatures that are hunted in national parks really staying away from poop and toxins? Are "wild" fish? I dunno...

_________________
No guts, no glory.
http://www.chicagonow.com/quips-travails-braised-oxtails
http://quipstravailsandbraisedoxtails.blogspot.com/

Hi,

If you overthink things, then you can scare yourself silly.

I heard a great squirrel story the other day. This guy's friend came to the door with a cleaned and defurred squirrel he had hunted. The recipient's wife had a hissy fit because the body looked too much like a cat. If I understood the story correctly, the husband was alone in the preparation and consumption of the squirrel. The rest of the family just kept their distance.

Regards,

_________________
Cathy2

"You'll be remembered long after you're dead if you make good gravy, mashed potatoes and biscuits." -- Nathalie Dupree
Facebook, Twitter, Greater Midwest Foodways, Road Food 2012: Podcast

I'm sure all animals are eating feces and other things that most humans with surely scrunch up their noses and shout "yuck" at, but I do have some reservations about eating, say, rats (let's be honest though, if offered it, I'd probably eat it.) Animals that are poking around in city garbage and even sewage are potentially coming in contact with some contaminated products. I know when I tested water once (not in Chicago, but I can only imagine its worse in some areas here near abandoned factories like the site i tested) and we found that there were traces of Mercury that could be detected in the fish population. I'm not sure if a rat's digestive system would digest these substances well enough for human consumption....

This is, apparently, my MIL's exclusive reason for avoiding rabbit (me, I don't see it...) There's a saying in Argentina "dar gato por liebre" literally "give cat for hare" or pig in a poke...

At any rate, I agree about not over-thinking it...it's all part of being top of the food chain!

_________________
No guts, no glory.
http://www.chicagonow.com/quips-travails-braised-oxtails
http://quipstravailsandbraisedoxtails.blogspot.com/

Some years ago I had a girlfriend that lived in a predominently Puerto Rican neighborhood. She thought it was cool that her neighbors were keeping chickens for eggs - she knew this because she heard the crowing in the morning and occaisionally during the day.

Then I pointed out to her that roosters crow, not hens. I then also pointed out that roosters don't lay eggs. I further pointed out that one of the national pastimes of Puerto Rico is cock fighting. She stopped thnking it was so cool.

_________________
I'm not Angry, I'm hungry.

trying to put more laws on the books. There might be a million laws, bans, and restrictions nowadays that just need to be taken off the books. This shit is getting useless.

If these people are abiding by the noise ordinances and are treating the animals in a humane manor, it shouldn't be an issue. What kind of disease are people worried about with rats? I know for a fact that i have rats in our alley, i see 'em all the time. But why does that worry people? I honestly wouldn't care if all the rats in my alley have AIDs - are we experiencing a high number of rat attacks?

People are too scared nowadays. Everyone is afraid of everything. So, instead of being rational, they try and strip more rights away from people.



...and if you don't want to live in close quarters, around diverse people, many of which are really, really weird or some of them actually have some live stock - then move somewhere else. this isn't YOUR city, either.

frustrating. I don't know where this uppity, stuck up standard has started, but it seems to be catching on pretty quickly

Hi, I'm one of those folks that keeps chickens in Chicago. I have 3 hens that are great pets and also provide me with fresh eggs. They help me with my garden, too, by eating weeds and bugs, and loosening up the soil.

Keeping chickens in the city used to be pretty standard practice, and it's now gaining in popularity. Cities like Los Angeles, New York (yes, New York City!), Minneapolis, St. Louis, and Seattle all allow people to raise hens in their backyard.

There will always be discourteous people in every neighborhood, and it appears that some Chicago neighborhoods have some bad chicken owners in them. It's NOT right for people to keep any animal or pet in filthy conditions; it's also NOT fair to their neighbors to have to put up with this.

This point that keeps coming up about rats is just so confusing to me. Where's the evidence that rats are eating chicken droppings? My chickens' droppings get composted in my secure compost bins or turned into the soil. I've never seen rats in my yard. Of course, I also remove their food every night and lock it up in a secure bin inside the garage. I think that helps keep vermin away quite well.

Have you ever cooked or eaten really fresh eggs? They're the best!

I honestly don't see why the practice should be banned, if there are already regulations on the books to ensure the owners of the chickens are behaving responsibly. If the laws are insufficient or insufficiently enforced, improve them, but it seems like this could easily be done without a total ban.

_________________
Ed Fisher
my chicago food photos

RIP LTH.

I have 2 dogs. They go in my yard. Sometimes they bark. I pick up their droppings, but certainly not as often as I should. I know we have rats in our street, alley, and probably they come through the yard. But no one is suggesting that we ban dogs.

_________________
Leek
SAVING ONE DOG MAY NOT CHANGE THE WORLD, BUT IT CHANGES THE WORLD FOR THAT ONE DOG.
American Brittany Rescue always needs foster homes. Please think about helping that one dog.
http://www.americanbrittanyrescue.org

Just heard on the radio that the council deferred any decisions on this issue until more citizen comment could be collected.

_________________
Joe G.

"Whatever may be wrong with the world, at least it has some good things to eat." -- Cowboy Jack Clement

I see that Linda has already responded. We met because of this ban. I too have been raising hens for the past few years in the city. We have had as many as five. They do not make much noise, nor do they attract vermin if cared for responsibly. Our neighbors find them amusing and have never complained. Neighbor kids often come by to visit them. When "the ladies" were younger, they laid almost daily (for about the first two years), providing us more than enough amazingly good eggs to use and share. They are great pets, require much less fuss than a dog, are a quirky addition to an urban household, and pay their own way.

If anyone is interested in considering getting a few for themselves, it is easy and I would be happy to have you come visit to see what its like, answer questions, etc. I live in Edgewater.

Steven

Where do you keep them in the winter?

I built an insulated coop that is located under our deck, so its fairly protected from wind and weather. It tends to be about 10 degrees warmer in the coop than outdoors, and we specifically bought "hardy" breeds that can take very cold temps. I've heard NH farmers say they have no special insulation or heating and their birds are fine in severe cold. Those of us who think our our girls more as pets pamper them a bit more. I have a blue floodlight in the coop that I turn on on very cold nights (they don't see that spectrum, I'm told, so it doesn't disturb their sleep patterns). If it is going to be a serious cold stretch, like the week or more of single digits we get once or twice a winter, I'll take them inside the basement and put them in a dog kennel overnight.

But in general, they're fine through the winter.

Steven

Where did you get them, especially if they are not your generic leghorns?

_________________
i used to milk cows

We got our first batch through an online hatchery. The only hitch for city folk is that they generally sell with a high minimum order (15-25), to keep the newly hatched chicks warm in transit. So you have to split an order if you go this route. For a couple of follow-up chicks, we got them at the Feed Store in Summit (Harlem Ave. & 55). The nice thing about chickens is that you can buy newly hatched little furballs for only a couple bucks each. And that applies to all types, even more rare breeds.

Steven

Someone in Albany Park is raising chickens. Twice this past summer we saw a chicken walking down Springfield off of Lawrence...just walking and clucking to herself.

My mother was visiting me right before Christmas, and early in the morning on the day of the winter solstice she took her dog out for a walk in Humboldt Park. When she came back in she said "Wow, that park is really a minefield for someone walking a dog". She had found several very recently decapitated, fully feathered chickens!

Note to self: do not anger any of my neighbors!

More OT: I spent a lot of time on a farm as a kid, and I really loved being "in charge" of getting the eggs from the chicken coop. The chickens were fun--and warm--and man there is nothing like a fresh egg. The city should regulate chicken-keeping, but certainly not ban it. If kept the right way chickens are certainly less of an annoyance to neighbors than a badly kept dog.

_________________
Anthony Bourdain on Barack Obama: "He's from Chicago, so he knows what good food is."

Yes, like you, my kids love collecting eggs and introducing their friends to "the ladies". As for the decapitated birds, that is so odd. I'm trying to envision how something like that happens... A raccoon would have eaten more of the birds. We had one of our birds killed by a possum, who tend to kill them but aren't really predators (more opportunistic scavengers), who was eating the head. But why dumped in the middle of the park? It almost sounds more like a terrible prank by teenagers, etc. Anyway, those of us who own hens and have been active in trying to craft a fair ordinance are in full agreement that any chicken-keeping must be done responsibly.

Steven
Edgewater