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Over the past few years I have noticed a disturbing trend. People will ask me to move seats (move down a seat, move down two seats, etc.) when I am sitting at a restaurant bar by myself or with another female friend. They will ask me to move regardless of whether they interrupt my conversation, my drinking or even my dinner. Lately, it has become so pervasive, people aren’t really asking anymore, they are demanding.

Just recently, I was having dinner/drinks at a nice bar/restaurant in Lincoln Park. A couple came in walked up to me and my female friend and basically demanded we “move down one way or the other, we want to eat!” We politely explained that we were eating as well, already had our silverware and placements in front of us, and that my food was on the way to me from the kitchen. The couple proceeded to loudly heckle us while standing behind us. The fact that they intended to intimidate us into moving was clear. The man in the couple reassured his wife that he would get the bartender to make us move. I was flabbergasted and more than little angry. No, I didn’t move after that display of rude behavior.

After this admittedly extreme experience, I starting thinking more about this issue. I have been asked to move on countless occasions when dining alone or with another female at the bar of a nice restaurant. I noticed a few things. No one ever asks me to move when I am out with a man. If I am out by myself I am almost guaranteed to be asked to move at least once. Groups or even duos of men or women almost never ask me to move--it is almost always couples. Often, the couple doing the asking is 10 to 15 years older than me.

To be clear, this happens to me at nice restaurants, with bars that have good service (placemats, silverware, water glasses, bread plates, etc.). I am not talking about the local watering hole or a sports bar. I have been asked to move multiple times in one night. I have been asked to move my wine, water, placemat, silverware, wine bottle and wine cooler down so someone could sit down for 10 minutes while waiting for a reservation. I just don’t get it.

Anyone who knows me knows that I am not a hardass. Often, I actually offer to move for people. It just would never occur to me to walk into an establishment and ask people to reorder themselves for my convenience. I come from an old-fashioned upbringing where that would just not be tolerated. I just wait my turn. Sometimes, people offer to move for me. I am always grateful when that happens. But I don’t expect always to get two seats at a crowded restaurant bar and I don’t expect strangers to play musical chairs for me.

Does anyone else have this issue?

Common courtesy would dictate that you move. It's no big deal (unless the people doing the asking are assholes about it).

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Steve Z.
Photographer/Pseudojournalist

"The only time to eat diet food is while you’re waiting for the steak to cook." - Julia Child

Even if they are nice about it, I don't think common courtesy requires me to move when I have wine, water, bread, a placemat, silverware, etc. in front of me. At that point, common courtesy would dictate that someone not interrupt my meal.

I agree with Steve. Being an asshole is never cool, but asking someone - male female, hermaphrodite, or whatever - to move is not a problem. I do it all the time. And when I'm seated at a bar by myself or otherwise, I always try to look around to see if moving myself might make life easier for other people. If someone asks me to move, I do it gladly unless it's a really big hardship (e.g., the seat they want me to move to is next to a particularly foul-smelling person). If I am waiting for food or even have food in front of me, that's not a big deal. I move.

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...defended from strong temptations to social ambition by a still stronger taste for tripe and onions." Screwtape in The Screwtape Letters by CS Lewis

Fuckerberg on Food

Gotta agree with stevez, you're sounding a bit tightly wound about a situation where moving over a space or two creates harmony for all.

Would you go up to a table of 2 sitting at a 4-top and and ask them to move mid-meal to accommodate your party of 4?

Count me old-fashioned; it's almost never okay to interrupt people who are eating. And it's almost never okay for a man to ask a woman to move so he can sit down.

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Local Beet

Assuming the reason they're asking you to move is because doing so will allow them room to sit together, I don't see the problem.

That said, in the rare cases where we ask someone to move down a spot so we can get in, we try to be courteous and we'll usually offer to buy the person a drink as thanks.

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Ed Fisher
my chicago food photos

RIP LTH.

When I sit down at an empty bar, I generally try to make sure that I either sit at the end, or leave two stools to either side of me (or us, if I'm with my wife or a friend), and have no problems moving if it's still required of me (if I'm just drinking, or waiting for food/table/etc.). If a couple approaches a single stool next to me, and there's another empty stool to the other side, I generally move before they ask and let them know they can have a seat there.

However, once my meal arrives, I prefer to stay put. I'd never ask someone enjoying a meal to pick everything up & move for me, I won't do so for anyone else. I think it's inconsiderate to disrupt someone's meal like that, and an inconvenience to have to go through the production of moving my plate, place setting, beer, water, condiments, etc. I'd rather stand. In the past, people in the middle of their meals have offered to move, and I've insisted that they stay put and enjoy their meals, I'm just fine standing with my beer.

As for the rude, demanding couple, you're a better person than I to have "politely explained" anything to them. My response to their rude demand (& subsequent heckling) would've been an indignant "psshh", and then they would've ceased to exist as far as I was concerned.

I think moving from one table to another is a much greater burden than sliding a single place setting three feet to the left.

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Ed Fisher
my chicago food photos

RIP LTH.

As long as someone asked politely, I'd move. I don't see any reason to cause someone else to wait, as long as sliding over a seat could prevent it.

=R=

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I just wanna live until I gotta die. I know I ain't perfect but God knows I try. --Todd Snider

Twitter: ronniesuburban

Probably not, but I would in certain establishments. In a crowded place, I don't think parties of 2 should be seated at 4-tops in the first palce when 2-tops are available. If it's the kind of place where you seat yourself and it seems like this rude twosome chose a table for four when others were available, then absolutely I would ask them to move.



Counted.

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...defended from strong temptations to social ambition by a still stronger taste for tripe and onions." Screwtape in The Screwtape Letters by CS Lewis

Fuckerberg on Food

Is it? You still have to move your coat, purse, bags, glass, placemat, dish, etc. at a bar too. I give you that you have to use your knees a little bit more have to lift you from a lower-set chair than from a stool ( ), but it's still a hassle nonetheless.

Having said that, I keep a watch for (and, FWIW, I've seen Cinny's Mom do the same) the chair arrangement at sports bars, bars like Bar DeVille, etc. and have offered to move for people who come in later and want to sit. But in a nice restaurant, where the bar serves as a de facto table, I wouldn't dream of asking anyone to move who either was eating or on the verge of eating.

I notice that most of the people okay with it are men. For those who have asked people to move for them -- speaking honestly -- when you've asked these other people to move, do you ask men or women? Honestly?

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Local Beet

I don't discriminate.. I'll ask whoever makes the most sense. The last couple times it's been men (at kuma's and burger bar in LV) but I don't see why that's any better or worse than asking a woman to move. Call me old fashioned, but I believe in equal treatment for men and women

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Ed Fisher
my chicago food photos

RIP LTH.

Different situation. Generally speaking, the restaurant sat the couple at the 4top, so it has been planned for. Space at bars are generally a seat yourself situation, and if one person, or even a couple of people, have an empty space on either side of them, I don't see any problem with asking them to slide one way or another.



Pretty much.

In fact I find the person that is, in essence, taking up three seats, much ruder than someone that asks me to slide over seat.

SSDD

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He was constantly reminded of how startlingly different a place the world was when viewed from a point only three feet to the left.

Deepdish Pizza = Casserole

Personally I believe in equality, it doesn't matter to me at all who the person is.

SSDD

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He was constantly reminded of how startlingly different a place the world was when viewed from a point only three feet to the left.

Deepdish Pizza = Casserole

When I was single and out with a guy friend, I would have been much more likely to ask women to move, especially attractive ones. It's a conversation starter, and ends with me sitting next to one of them. (my friends were just wing men ). Now, I ask both genders to move equally, without discriminating.

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...defended from strong temptations to social ambition by a still stronger taste for tripe and onions." Screwtape in The Screwtape Letters by CS Lewis

Fuckerberg on Food

Okay, would you ask them to move at a place like Franks n Dawgs, where the restaurant doesn't seat you, it's first come, first served? Would you ask some to move who was mid-hot dog?

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Local Beet

Depends on the place and how "dug in" you are. If you have a $50 steak and a bottle of overpriced cab on a white napkin at Morton's I could see being hacked off at being asked to scootch. Short of that, moving makes sense and friends, particularly with the server/bartender who would like to serve more food and drink. Making the bartender happy is always a good move.

No, but I have asked to share a table with someone in a similar situation. (it was one person at a 4top.)

... but then again I'll probably never go to Franks n Dawgs again either.

SSDD

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He was constantly reminded of how startlingly different a place the world was when viewed from a point only three feet to the left.

Deepdish Pizza = Casserole

Definitely agree with this. Especially if I'm patronizing a place I really like. If I can do something to help them out, like make other customers happy or make it easier for them to begin ordering, I do it.

As for it happening mid-dog, again if someone asked politely, that'd be enough for me to accomodate their request. In fact, I can't imagine ever refusing such a request.

=R=

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I just wanna live until I gotta die. I know I ain't perfect but God knows I try. --Todd Snider

Twitter: ronniesuburban

I agree that you're under no social obligation to move. Sometimes it's nice to do someone else a favor and move if requested, but if you've established yourself in a seat, that doesn't mean that someone coming in later has a right to it. And I don't think gender has anything to with that.

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Chicago Craft Beer Week!

Woman here. I think of "sliding over one" as just part of living in a big city. Actually, I credit CTA most for conditioning me--daily jostling on buses and the el make moving bar seats seem like the easiest thing in the world to do. And, technically speaking, I'm not usually an easy one to move--besides my place setting with the multiple dishes I typically order, I tend to carry a lot of stuff...layers of clothing, bags, books, yoga mat. In the big scheme of things though, I don't mind moving myself and my crap, regardless of where I am in my meal. I, too, consider it just a decent gesture to other people who want to eat and to staff who want service to run smoothly.



I don't ever expect this kind of gratitude--I'm always happy to move, have never been asked by jerks--but it is quite nice when this happens. Actually, the last time, a few months ago, was at Avec where, dining alone, I was asked to move over for a group of three (2 men, 1 woman, FWIW). I was near the end of my meal. The group at first offered me a glass of wine, but they ended up sharing all of their food (and a lot of wine) with me. I had a second dinner and then some, and all three of them have become friends. We sometimes eat at the bar of restaurants, but we haven't yet had to ask anyone to move for us...

Believe me, I'm a huge believer in equality; equal pay in the workplace, equal rights, etc. But when it comes to etiquette, I'm old-fashioned. But, hey, I'm one of the dinosaurs that still gets up to offer the old lady my seat on the train (while I glare at the men who pretend not to see her).

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Local Beet

So do I, and I do it for old men, people with canes, and pregnant women too; I hold doors for people I don't know, and I've helped strangers with bags at CTA stops (though they are always hesitant, they must think I'll run off with the bags...)

But taking up (at least) three seats at a bar, yeah I'll ask you to move.

SSDD

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He was constantly reminded of how startlingly different a place the world was when viewed from a point only three feet to the left.

Deepdish Pizza = Casserole

Nothing requires you to move. Common courtesy dictates that you probably should.

_________________
Steve Z.
Photographer/Pseudojournalist

"The only time to eat diet food is while you’re waiting for the steak to cook." - Julia Child

That's a bit of a different situation than asking somone to slide down one barstool, don't you think? And what does the fact that someone is a man or woman have anyting to do with it?

_________________
Steve Z.
Photographer/Pseudojournalist

"The only time to eat diet food is while you’re waiting for the steak to cook." - Julia Child

I'll often go out by myself or with just one other person. In my experiences, most people rarely ask for me or my party to move down but if I happen to notice a seat or 2 available and it will allow a standing customer to sit and for the bar/restaurant to make more money, I move down. The dynamics of a space can change a few times over the course of an hour or two. Is it a real hassle for you to move?

What if you walked in a bar with a group of 3 and there were 2 chairs on one side of a group and 1 chair on the other side. Would you not see the logic in simply making a small gesture to accommodate a random stranger who may just want to sit down and get some food and drink?

It's not a big deal at a bar. At a table, it may be different but could still be pulled off seamlessly.

With that being said, it's also rude to mock others who won't move so that was wrong of them...unless it's a bus or train because those people actually deserve worse.

If I can move and make room for people I've just seen come in, fine, happy to do it.

In some bars you could find yourself shifting around every two minutes, though, as people come and go around you. It really isn't my job to foster a real-time, constantly-updated seating market at the bar. If there's three of you and two seats, one of you can stand till something opens up. At some point, I stop being responsible for your happiness at a place I came to when it was half empty and you came to at its busiest point.

And it wouldn't surprise me a bit to learn that there are plenty of guys who would butt women out of the way and never do so to men. However, it seems to me that anyone who already has a drink in their hand has the perfect tool for curing rudeness at the ready. I'd love to see a woman fling her drink in some mouthy jerk's face at a bar, it would be one of the highlights of my year.

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Right - I was thinking that Kuma's would be just such a scenario - if you came in singly, seated yourself at a lone seat in the middle of the bar, got your food - would you move three seats down to accomodate a group of four, and then two seats back to accomodate some other arrangement of open seats? There are limits. Most of these hypothetical scenarios listed on LTH are so situational that it's hard to say what one might do or not do, or feel or not feel, unless you are in the moment.

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No guts, no glory.
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I don't understand the hypothetical. If moving 3 seats over would accommodate a party of 4, wouldn't moving one seat the other direction do the same thing? I don't understand that hypothetical or any other (besides blatantly obnoxious people) that could realistically happen and make moving too big a hassle that it wouldn't be the right and easy thing to do.

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...defended from strong temptations to social ambition by a still stronger taste for tripe and onions." Screwtape in The Screwtape Letters by CS Lewis

Fuckerberg on Food