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The Wagyu vs. Kobe discussion in the Paramount room thread prompted me to do a little research. Rather than derail the Paramount thread (further), I thought I would relate my findings under a new topic in this forum. It is interesting how the whole Wagyu beef marketing machine works. At least it is not as wild-west as the fish trade.

FWIW the word Wagyu simply means "Japanese Cattle". It can refer to many different cross-bred or pure-bred varieties. Much of the Japanese Cattle are descended from Western breeds (including Angus) which were imported to Japan well over a century ago. Since Japanese cattle have become a hot commodity, there has been an attempt to stabalize the strains. Kobe, on the other hand, indeed refers to a specific place, and Kobe Wagyu simply means Japanese Cattle raised in Kobe (strangely enough, most of the Japanese breeds were not actually developed in Kobe).


As well as promoting the breed, The American Wagyu Association genetically tests "Wagyu" cattle to make sure they are descedents of the original imports. There are several percentage standards for defining Wagyu cattle. The AWA standards are used by the USDA for defining "Wagyu influenced" beef. The designation "influenced" is used repeatedly, but I have never seen it on a menu. Apparently, the offspring of a registered terminal cross sire and a commercial dam qualifies for that definition.

The American Wagyu Association recently concluded a 1 year program which allowed breeders to register previously designated "meat only" cattle as terminal cross sires, if they could prove 50% purebred Wagyu (15/16) parentage. I assume this was an attempt to widen the "Wagyu" gene-pool to satisfy the demand for "Kobe" Sliders. So, the way I read it, Wagyu "influenced" beef could be of as little as 23.4375% Wagyu lineage (my interpetation may be wrong).

What Wagyu and Kobe really mean:

Wagyu: actually from Japan
Kobe: "we're charging an extra $3 for our hamburger"

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My understanding of the terms, and what I'd like them to mean is the following:

Wagyu are particular breeds of cattle with certain characteristics (high marbling, for one), and the term is expansive. Kobe is a subset of Wagyu, and is beef from Japan raised under certain strict traditions (Wikipedia informs me that it's specifically Tajimi-ushi cattle raised in the Hyogo prefecture in a certain way.) "American Wagyu" sounds more correct to me than "American Kobe." My recent Allen Brothers catalog includes an explanatory note, and they refer to their beef as "Wagyu", not "Kobe."

In fact, to quote their catalog:

"The city of Kobe, Japan, became known for its Wagyu production -- hence the name Kobe beef, which can now be applied only to Wagyu beef produced in Kobe. True Kobe beef is rarely seen in America."

Same here. I always thought "Kobe" is to "wagyu" as "Champagne" is to "sparkling wine".

Ditto. Like "Kagoshima" is to "kurobuta" pork as well.

Kobe is just a place where a lot of beef is processed. The champagne analogy is a good one. I suppose it would be perfectly ethical for a place to sell Kobe Sliders, meaning sliders in the style of Kobe, rather than to say Kobe BEEF sliders, which would be untrue. It is like calling a sausage a frankfurter eventhough it is not actually from Germany.

From what I get, in Japan, the term Wagyu, literally refers to any domestic breed of cattle (many of which have been cross-bred with western breeds over the years). Some of those cattle were bred for pulling carts, not for their exceptional meat. As Japan began importing more beef, the superior domestically produced meat became a more precious commodity, so the term Wagyu (in reference to beef cattle) took on more importance. The Japanese began more clearly defining their domestic breeds and undiluting the blood lines.

In America, Wagyu has a much more specific meaning. It refers to cattle that have at least a certain percentage of their lineage derived from two specific groups of cattle imported to Oregon in the 1990's. As I said, currently that percentage for the "meat only" cattle can vary anywhere down to 24% (in the case of a 50% purebred terminal cross sire and a non-wagyu dam), and still produce what's called "Wagyu influenced" beef. I am sure that cattle which are of less than 1/4 Japanese ancestry, are not considered Wagyu in Japan. In fact, I bet that a steer of 100% Japanese ancestry would not be considered Wagyu, if it was bred and raised outside of Japan (maybe someone can confirm this), like a Neopolitan Pizza is no longer considered a "True" Neopolitan Pizza once it is carried outside of the pizzeria (hey, I don't make the rules).

In order to temporarily increase the available "American Wagyu" labeled beef while more breeding stock was developed, last year the AWA allowed breeders to register some 50% purebred "meat only" (meaning not for breeding) bulls as "terminal cross breeding sires". These "terminal sires" can only be used for breeding "meat only" cattle, and only for up to 5 years. From what I understand (again, I may be wrong, please correct me if I am), these terminal sires can be bred with non-wagyu dams and still produce "Wagyu influenced" beef yielding only 24% "pure" Wagyu (1/2 * 15/16) / 2. Otherwise, Wagyu beef cattle must be 49% pure (traceable to two purebred grandparents) or the product of at least a 50% pure sire and a 37.5% pure dam. So it looks like for the next several years, American Wagyu beef will be diluted until more purebred breeding stock is developed (or imported). Hence, Jazzfood's Wangus.

Basically, this summarizes my understanding of Kobe beef.

I hate the use of the term "Kobe" to mean "American Kobe" or "Kobe-style," but language is what it is, and if the common understanding of Kobe does not mean Wagyu cattle raised in a specific tradition slaughtered in Kobe, Japan, (which, it seems, it does not mean), who am I to protest? Many people call any sparkling wine "Champagne"; they call Jack Daniels "bourbon", fajitas can be made of chicken or other meat, goulash can be a macaroni-and-meat concoction and anything slathered in barbecue sauce is "barbecue." *shrug* Consider the context. If I'm in a bar or fast-food restaurant or whatever, and I'm being sold "Kobe beef," I don't expect precise terminology, especially if the price is not to be believed. However, if I'm at an upscale joint and I see a Kobe ribeye on the menu for an exorbitant price, it damned better well be Kobe ribeye and not "ribeye in the style of Kobe." (Or whatever cuts they butcher Kobe into.)

Yup, just me and my Wangus, living large.

Great work my friend. Learned quite a bit myself. Well done.

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I thought this thread would turn into a huge, painful back & forth...much to my delight, it's actually turned out really entertaining & educational (edu-taining?).

Thanks for starting it, and filling it with well-researched posts!

Maybe not the best thread for it, but great story here of a golfer based in the U.S. (he lives at least part time in Chicago, apparently) who wins a cow in Japanese tournament and insists on getting that cow (presumably instead of cash equivalent), with an assist from Nick Kokonas.

Thanks for all your efforts researching and writing this up, d4v3.

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