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  • Old Crow Smokehouse: Deliciousness in the Douche Vortex

    Post #1 - May 3rd, 2014, 5:32 pm
    Post #1 - May 3rd, 2014, 5:32 pm Post #1 - May 3rd, 2014, 5:32 pm
    Old Crow Smokehouse: Deliciousness in the Douche Vortex

    Few days ago, Chicagoist published its very helpful guide to Douche Vortices around the city [http://chicagoist.com/2014/05/01/chicagos_douche_vortexes.php], explaining:

    Chicago has several major douche vortices. It’s important to map them out because many innocent people stumble onto them by accident. Recent Chicago transplants and tourists are the most common victims. They’re drawn in by some of the traps in the vortices, which range from hip bars to music venues, and then they find themselves stuck in a zombie-like horde of belligerent drunks.

    Wrigleyville is on this list and, vortices aside, this sports-focused hood is not the quadrant I’d usually pick for dinner…but I was invited to a media event at Old Crow Smokehouse at 3506 N. Clark (they also have another outpost in Schaumburg), and we went to check it out.

    Though I’m not much of a BBQ aficionado, I did train on the smoker at the feet (actually, under the jack-booted foot) of the imperious BBQ Dr. Gary Wiviott, and I’ve been to most of the old-line and new wave BBQ joints around Chicago.

    I fully expect many to doubt me (based on Douche Vortex location alone), but I found the BBQ at Old Crow to be quite good. The rubs are excellent, and in the style of great pit masters, Old Crow’s Tony Scruggs foregoes saucing the ribs before serving. Scruggs puts squeeze bottles of sauce on the tables, he explains, “because I have to. People expect it.” My recommendation is to appreciate the rubbed meat without the sauce, which adds nothing and easily overwhelms.

    Image

    Like so many pit masters before him, Scruggs has no formal training. He cooked in his backyard on weekends (he spent much of his adult life as a truck driver) and eventually proved he had the chops to serve a larger dining audience.

    The short ribs have a delicate patina of carbonized skin (yes, it’s burnt, deliciously). The night we were there, they were served with a bowl of salsa made from ramps Scruggs had harvested in a wooded area near his home in Kankakee. The meat was a range of textures, some parts pleasingly chewy, others delicate and lush, moderately smoked so the flavor of burning wood came through without obscuring the flavor of deliciously fatty meat.

    Image

    The rack of ribs had very good tooth, smoky meat and the aforementioned rub, which I thought was excellent. Like all the q here, the ribs were cooked on a Southern Pride, and I think the quality of this meat reflects how good meat can be even when it comes off this high volume industrial smoker. How much did I like the ribs? When I woke up the following morning, the ribs were all I was thinking about; I had them for breakfast.

    Image

    The beer can chicken was pleasingly moist, with crisp skin, presented sitting on the beer can, which somewhat thwarts cutting apart with knife and fork. “Release your inner barbarian,” suggested Scruggs, and so I tore the bird apart with my hands and served my tablemates big fistfuls of fowl flesh.

    Image

    Carolyn really liked the sides, particularly the sweet potatoes which had been tossed with blue cheese: “best I’ve ever had,” she cooed on the way home. She really liked the beans too, and they were fine, but I really only had eyes for meat.

    I had a few bourbon-based drinks that I liked, and though they do serve several moonshine cocktails here, I can’t say I’m much of a fan of those.

    This place is all country music, and they have a stage for live bands, one of which performed while I was there. I thought the music was pretty good, relying largely on classics like Ring of Fire, etc.

    Image

    It’s going to be easy to find targets here to shoot at here: tables of dudebros and trixies, and the servers wear cute cowgirl outfits, which cry out for snide commentary from food cognoscenti. But I had a good time at Old Crow; I thought the BBQ was good, so if you’re in the neighborhood (like, say, before or after a game), this place is a good bet for a bite.

    Old Crow Smokehouse
    3506 N. Clark
    http://oldcrowsmokehouse.com/
    “Nobody exists on purpose. Nobody belongs anywhere. Everybody’s gonna die. Come watch TV?”
  • Post #2 - May 3rd, 2014, 6:46 pm
    Post #2 - May 3rd, 2014, 6:46 pm Post #2 - May 3rd, 2014, 6:46 pm
    Ha, this place actually looks good. I guess it underscores a downside to my map, which that it might discourage people to go to the few places in these neighborhoods that have genuinely good food.
  • Post #3 - May 3rd, 2014, 7:06 pm
    Post #3 - May 3rd, 2014, 7:06 pm Post #3 - May 3rd, 2014, 7:06 pm
    Short rib has my name on it. More on the sweet pots pls. Roasted or mashed or … ?
    "In pursuit of joys untasted"
    from Giuseppe Verdi's La Traviata
  • Post #4 - May 3rd, 2014, 8:28 pm
    Post #4 - May 3rd, 2014, 8:28 pm Post #4 - May 3rd, 2014, 8:28 pm
    They also have a location out by Schaumburg, recently open and just as delicious.
  • Post #5 - May 4th, 2014, 7:46 am
    Post #5 - May 4th, 2014, 7:46 am Post #5 - May 4th, 2014, 7:46 am
    mgmcewen wrote:Ha, this place actually looks good. I guess it underscores a downside to my map, which that it might discourage people to go to the few places in these neighborhoods that have genuinely good food.


    I thought your demographic analysis and commentary were hilarious.

    Jazzfood wrote:Short rib has my name on it. More on the sweet pots pls. Roasted or mashed or … ?


    They were mashed and I'm guessing it was pretty much just the potato and the cheese; the sweetness of the spud went well with the sharpness of the cheese.
    “Nobody exists on purpose. Nobody belongs anywhere. Everybody’s gonna die. Come watch TV?”
  • Post #6 - May 4th, 2014, 8:02 am
    Post #6 - May 4th, 2014, 8:02 am Post #6 - May 4th, 2014, 8:02 am
    David Hammond wrote:I thought your demographic analysis and commentary were hilarious.


    Same here. Until reading your post in this thread, I didn't connect that "you" were "you," but I'm glad I now did. An auspicious start at Chicagoist.
    Pithy quote here.
  • Post #7 - May 4th, 2014, 9:29 am
    Post #7 - May 4th, 2014, 9:29 am Post #7 - May 4th, 2014, 9:29 am
    . . . the imperious BBQ Dr. Gary Wiviott. . .


    Whoa! :lol:
  • Post #8 - May 5th, 2014, 6:09 pm
    Post #8 - May 5th, 2014, 6:09 pm Post #8 - May 5th, 2014, 6:09 pm
    Though not exactly a back-to-back comparison, we just went to a BBQ joint that was nowhere near any known Douche Vortices, and we found a dramatic difference between the Q at Old Crow and the Q at this other place (which I can’t name for reasons that will soon become obvious). As I don’t consider myself a discerning BBQ-enthusiast, it was instructive to taste two very different approaches to preparing this classic American meat.

    My assessment of Old Crow is documented in the first post in this tread. Suffice it to say my assessment of this other place is considerably less enthusiastic. Aside from the fact that there was no smoke discernable in the meat (I nosed into the kitchen; saw no smoker, though there could have been one somewhere, perhaps off-site), the meat arrived ladled with BBQ sauce. There were two squirt bottles of sauce on the table, and it seems to me that if you’re going to serve sauce on the meat, it should be cooked on, Chicago-style. I can’t understand why a chef would add cold sauce to a BBQ meat; it’s like a chef adding catsup to French fries, perhaps a little worse (I can add my own tomato sauce, thanks).

    Image

    I addressed this issue of BBQ sauce some years ago on WBEZ with Dr. Wiviott, Matt Sievers, Barry Sorkin, Grace Delcano and others who know Q; you can listen here: http://www.wbez.org/episode-segments/bbq-chicago-style

    The sweet, subtlety-free sauce that drenched our ribs reminded me of a few lines spoken by the august Dr. Wiviott many years ago:

    Most people and most commercial establishments do not cook very good barbecue. They rush it or they don't use smoke or they use too much smoke and it tastes like creosote or their fire isn't clean and it becomes smoldering and it adds a tar-y like patina to the meat, so what sauce does, especially the sweet, sticky, thick viscous type sauces that people use – it almost tastes like a candy bar, people are using that as Spackle, quite frankly, they're painting over the barbecue, they're masking the flavors.

    The chicken we had was not one-half as delicious as the Old Crow BBQ bird, but this is the clincher: we’re pretty sure we were served pulled pork that had turned. Carolyn thought it might be an issue with holding temperatures, but we both put a bite in our mouths at the same time, and we both made sour, shocked faces. Me, I thought some chemical cleaning solvent had maybe spilled into the pork; it was that bad. Acrid, almost caustic tasting, vile, the sort of thing that makes the brain recoil, snapping to the front of consciousness a message, born of millennia of human evolution, that shrieks in a fundamental survival spasm: SPIT THIS OUT!!

    I mentioned the foul tasting Q to the server who apologized (though I assured her she didn’t need to apologize, just tell the chef, please). I watched her go into the kitchen, drop off the dishes, and leave, without exchanging any comments with the chef.

    Anyway, this sad experience made the memory of Old Crow stand out as even more delicious.
    “Nobody exists on purpose. Nobody belongs anywhere. Everybody’s gonna die. Come watch TV?”
  • Post #9 - May 5th, 2014, 9:01 pm
    Post #9 - May 5th, 2014, 9:01 pm Post #9 - May 5th, 2014, 9:01 pm
    I didn't find the post mean spirited, just pointless. Illustrating that there are places much worse than Old Crow is almost tautological, and by not naming the offender we are deprived of useful information.
  • Post #10 - May 5th, 2014, 9:17 pm
    Post #10 - May 5th, 2014, 9:17 pm Post #10 - May 5th, 2014, 9:17 pm
    scottsol wrote:I didn't find the post mean spirited, just pointless. Illustrating that there are places much worse than Old Crow is almost tautological, and by not naming the offender we are deprived of useful information.


    Did someone say some post, my post maybe, was mean spirited?
    “Nobody exists on purpose. Nobody belongs anywhere. Everybody’s gonna die. Come watch TV?”
  • Post #11 - May 5th, 2014, 9:19 pm
    Post #11 - May 5th, 2014, 9:19 pm Post #11 - May 5th, 2014, 9:19 pm
    That was me, but I deleted it. Not anything to do with Old Crow. I meant the douche vortex thing. Not you, the Chicagoist article linked.
    "Your swimming suit matches your eyes, you hold your nose before diving, loving you has made me bananas!"

    As Carl Sagan once said, to make an apple pie truly from scratch, you must first invent the universe. And sometimes I just don't have the time and energy to invent the universe. So I figure it's okay to buy some stuff.
  • Post #12 - May 6th, 2014, 9:56 am
    Post #12 - May 6th, 2014, 9:56 am Post #12 - May 6th, 2014, 9:56 am
    Well, you can't name any "offender" because the crime data doesn't list specific places. You can approximate, but the map is in the post and you can view it at your leisure to see where the hot spots are. I'm OK with being mean-spirited to businesses that cost the city a considerable amount of money in policing and damage to the surrounding areas, which communities in Chicago have very little recourse against currently. I also feel this is useful information for transplants, though I admittedly did approach it in a humorous and irrelevant way, the truth is that I've had some very unpleasant experiences in these areas. And witnessed a lot of sexual harassment, homophobia, and racism there.

    And the truth is there are some nice places in these areas- like this place, but you have to strategize, especially as a woman, when to go to them.
  • Post #13 - May 6th, 2014, 3:37 pm
    Post #13 - May 6th, 2014, 3:37 pm Post #13 - May 6th, 2014, 3:37 pm
    mgmcewen wrote:I'm OK with being mean-spirited to businesses ... though I admittedly did approach it in a humorous and irrelevant way, the truth is that I've had some very unpleasant experiences in these areas. And witnessed a lot of sexual harassment, homophobia, and racism there.

    But you didn't direct your mean-spiritedness at businesses; you directed it at human beings: "they are the douchebags ... veterans of the Greek systems in Big Ten schools, and they like to wear popped polo shirts and Cubs hats ... at their apex of douchiness, they are loud, boorish and predatory ... River North, the current douche capital of Chicago ... where the young rich douches hang out ..."

    Do you have more specific statistics to prove that people who are well off financially, wear polo shirts, are Cubs fans, went to Big Ten schools, and/or belonged to fraternities or sororities are disproportionately responsible for the crime rates --- as well as the sexual harassment, homophobia, and racism that you specifically mentioned --- in these neighborhoods? Because I see a lot of stereotyping of (as DH called them) "dudebros and trixies", and it's obvious that there's a bias against this segment of the population (which, other than having gone to a Big Ten school and being a Cubs fan, I do not identify with), on this forum and off, but I'm not yet persuaded that it's justified. And in my mind, some convincing justification is warranted to refer to people by the "douche" label 47 times in one article.
    "Your swimming suit matches your eyes, you hold your nose before diving, loving you has made me bananas!"

    As Carl Sagan once said, to make an apple pie truly from scratch, you must first invent the universe. And sometimes I just don't have the time and energy to invent the universe. So I figure it's okay to buy some stuff.
  • Post #14 - May 6th, 2014, 10:36 pm
    Post #14 - May 6th, 2014, 10:36 pm Post #14 - May 6th, 2014, 10:36 pm
    Katie wrote:
    mgmcewen wrote:I'm OK with being mean-spirited to businesses ... though I admittedly did approach it in a humorous and irrelevant way, the truth is that I've had some very unpleasant experiences in these areas. And witnessed a lot of sexual harassment, homophobia, and racism there.

    But you didn't direct your mean-spiritedness at businesses; you directed it at human beings: "they are the douchebags ... veterans of the Greek systems in Big Ten schools, and they like to wear popped polo shirts and Cubs hats ... at their apex of douchiness, they are loud, boorish and predatory ... River North, the current douche capital of Chicago ... where the young rich douches hang out ..."

    Do you have more specific statistics to prove that people who are well off financially, wear polo shirts, are Cubs fans, went to Big Ten schools, and/or belonged to fraternities or sororities are disproportionately responsible for the crime rates --- as well as the sexual harassment, homophobia, and racism that you specifically mentioned --- in these neighborhoods? Because I see a lot of stereotyping of (as DH called them) "dudebros and trixies", and it's obvious that there's a bias against this segment of the population (which, other than having gone to a Big Ten school and being a Cubs fan, I do not identify with), on this forum and off, but I'm not yet persuaded that it's justified. And in my mind, some convincing justification is warranted to refer to people by the "douche" label 47 times in one article.



    The article is a mix of personal experience, data, and some humor. There are no statistics available on racism, sexual harassment, or racism, but try walking down the street in Wrigleyville with some people of color or a man who might be dressed a bit like (ah...what did they shout at my friend...yes, it was "f**") on a Friday night and see what kind of language you are subjected to. I won't repeat some of the comments I've gotten, I didn't know any better about what areas to avoid when I first moved here. Once the world has been rid of stuff like this we can start being really sad for the people that got called douches on my article. Or maybe they could stop acting like this and people would ignore the article because it's totally alien to reality.

    I went to a Big Ten school. I guess I shouldn't have been surprised. Racism, rape, etc. are really well documented parts of that culture. It's not controversial. Sure, there are some exceptional frats and sororities that aren't like that, but they are exceptional. I just thought maybe people would have grown up once they got jobs and moved to the city.

    What I'm saying is these areas suck and large numbers of people in them suck. And I have trouble feeling bad for telling people to avoid both.
  • Post #15 - May 7th, 2014, 1:51 am
    Post #15 - May 7th, 2014, 1:51 am Post #15 - May 7th, 2014, 1:51 am
    That's am impressively broad brush you're panting with there.
    I'm surprised you can lift it.
  • Post #16 - May 7th, 2014, 11:25 am
    Post #16 - May 7th, 2014, 11:25 am Post #16 - May 7th, 2014, 11:25 am
    mgmcewen wrote:Well, you can't name any "offender" because the crime data doesn't list specific places. You can approximate, but the map is in the post and you can view it at your leisure to see where the hot spots are. I'm OK with being mean-spirited to businesses that cost the city a considerable amount of money in policing and damage to the surrounding areas, which communities in Chicago have very little recourse against currently. I also feel this is useful information for transplants, though I admittedly did approach it in a humorous and irrelevant way, the truth is that I've had some very unpleasant experiences in these areas. And witnessed a lot of sexual harassment, homophobia, and racism there.

    And the truth is there are some nice places in these areas- like this place, but you have to strategize, especially as a woman, when to go to them.


    Wait, I'm meeting with some friends next week at Old Crow. At least one of them is female and she was telling me she has had great times there. Is lunch one of the good times, then, to go and avoid the sexual harassment, homophobia, and racism? Because if it's there at all I really don't want to go.
    Objects in mirror appear to be losing.
  • Post #17 - May 7th, 2014, 1:17 pm
    Post #17 - May 7th, 2014, 1:17 pm Post #17 - May 7th, 2014, 1:17 pm
    Kman wrote:
    Wait, I'm meeting with some friends next week at Old Crow. At least one of them is female and she was telling me she has had great times there. Is lunch one of the good times, then, to go and avoid the sexual harassment, homophobia, and racism? Because if it's there at all I really don't want to go.


    They are only open for lunch on game days, which probably is not the best time to avoid drunken louts.
  • Post #18 - May 7th, 2014, 2:03 pm
    Post #18 - May 7th, 2014, 2:03 pm Post #18 - May 7th, 2014, 2:03 pm
    scottsol wrote:They are only open for lunch on game days . . .

    Oy. That's a winning combination.

    =R=
    Gardening is a bloodsport --Meghan Kleeman

    Why don't you take these profiteroles and put them up your shi'-ta-holes? --Jemaine & Bret

    There's a horse loose in a hospital --JM

    That don't impress me much --Shania Twain
  • Post #19 - May 7th, 2014, 2:39 pm
    Post #19 - May 7th, 2014, 2:39 pm Post #19 - May 7th, 2014, 2:39 pm
    David Hammond wrote:
    I fully expect many to doubt me (based on Douche Vortex location alone), but I found the BBQ at Old Crow to be quite good. The rubs are excellent, and in the style of great pit masters, Old Crow’s Tony Scruggs foregoes saucing the ribs before serving. Scruggs puts squeeze bottles of sauce on the tables, he explains, “because I have to. People expect it.” My recommendation is to appreciate the rubbed meat without the sauce, which adds nothing and easily overwhelms.

    Image
    /[/url]

    Hi,

    There is one omission about Mr. Scruggs. He was a contestant on MasterChef season two, who was knocked off on episide five. I bumped into him last year and immediately recognized him.

    He is from downstate Illinois who is a BBQ hobbyist - now pitmaster - who was a truckdriver hoping to shift gears into BBQ cooking fulltime. I am so glad he found a paying gig.

    Regards,
    Cathy2

    "You'll be remembered long after you're dead if you make good gravy, mashed potatoes and biscuits." -- Nathalie Dupree
    Facebook, Twitter, Greater Midwest Foodways, Road Food 2012: Podcast
  • Post #20 - May 7th, 2014, 2:53 pm
    Post #20 - May 7th, 2014, 2:53 pm Post #20 - May 7th, 2014, 2:53 pm
    Cathy2 wrote:
    David Hammond wrote:
    I fully expect many to doubt me (based on Douche Vortex location alone), but I found the BBQ at Old Crow to be quite good. The rubs are excellent, and in the style of great pit masters, Old Crow’s Tony Scruggs foregoes saucing the ribs before serving. Scruggs puts squeeze bottles of sauce on the tables, he explains, “because I have to. People expect it.” My recommendation is to appreciate the rubbed meat without the sauce, which adds nothing and easily overwhelms.

    Image
    /[/url]

    Hi,

    There is one omission about Mr. Scruggs. He was a contestant on MasterChef season two, who was knocked off on episide five. I bumped into him last year and immediately recognized him.

    He is from downstate Illinois who is a BBQ hobbyist - now pitmaster - who was a truckdriver hoping to shift gears into BBQ cooking fulltime. I am so glad he found a paying gig.

    Regards,


    I'm sure there were other omissions, intentional and otherwise. Scruggs was also a steelworker for years.
    “Nobody exists on purpose. Nobody belongs anywhere. Everybody’s gonna die. Come watch TV?”
  • Post #21 - May 7th, 2014, 7:19 pm
    Post #21 - May 7th, 2014, 7:19 pm Post #21 - May 7th, 2014, 7:19 pm
    scottsol wrote:
    Kman wrote:
    Wait, I'm meeting with some friends next week at Old Crow. At least one of them is female and she was telling me she has had great times there. Is lunch one of the good times, then, to go and avoid the sexual harassment, homophobia, and racism? Because if it's there at all I really don't want to go.


    They are only open for lunch on game days, which probably is not the best time to avoid drunken louts.


    I know when they are open - I was curious about the specific reference to this restaurant and the need to "strategize"; I'm assuming that's based upon experience, experience I was hoping the poster would share. My (female) friend was there for the AFC and NFC championship games, when presumably there was a fair amount of sports fans (I know they aren't thought of very well on this board), and she reported having a great time - this despite watching her Patriots lose.
    Objects in mirror appear to be losing.
  • Post #22 - May 7th, 2014, 7:38 pm
    Post #22 - May 7th, 2014, 7:38 pm Post #22 - May 7th, 2014, 7:38 pm
    Hi,

    I would have thought being a contestant on MasterChef was a salient point. I cannot imagine the initial posts of Stephanie Izard or Big & Little without mention of their association with Top Chef.

    It is too bad this BBQ will now be associated on this board with the Douche Vortex.

    Regards,
    Cathy2

    "You'll be remembered long after you're dead if you make good gravy, mashed potatoes and biscuits." -- Nathalie Dupree
    Facebook, Twitter, Greater Midwest Foodways, Road Food 2012: Podcast
  • Post #23 - May 7th, 2014, 7:41 pm
    Post #23 - May 7th, 2014, 7:41 pm Post #23 - May 7th, 2014, 7:41 pm
    Cathy2 wrote:It is too bad this BBQ will now be associated on this board with the Douche Vortex.

    It's ok. Quality BBQ will endure. :wink:

    =R=
    Gardening is a bloodsport --Meghan Kleeman

    Why don't you take these profiteroles and put them up your shi'-ta-holes? --Jemaine & Bret

    There's a horse loose in a hospital --JM

    That don't impress me much --Shania Twain
  • Post #24 - May 7th, 2014, 8:30 pm
    Post #24 - May 7th, 2014, 8:30 pm Post #24 - May 7th, 2014, 8:30 pm
    Cathy2 wrote:I would have thought being a contestant on MasterChef was a salient point. I cannot imagine the initial posts of Stephanie Izard or Big & Little without mention of their association with Top Chef.


    Actually I was more impressed by the fact that he was a steelworker. I still have my United Steelworkers union pin, so I'm more than a little shocked I let that item on his resume sneak by, as that's a common bond we share.

    Shocked.
    “Nobody exists on purpose. Nobody belongs anywhere. Everybody’s gonna die. Come watch TV?”
  • Post #25 - May 8th, 2014, 7:51 am
    Post #25 - May 8th, 2014, 7:51 am Post #25 - May 8th, 2014, 7:51 am
    The anti-fratboy (or douche, if you will) thing seems to be riding the crest of the zeitgeist, what with the release tomorrow of Neighbors.
    Pithy quote here.
  • Post #26 - May 8th, 2014, 4:21 pm
    Post #26 - May 8th, 2014, 4:21 pm Post #26 - May 8th, 2014, 4:21 pm
    Kman wrote:
    scottsol wrote:
    Kman wrote:
    Wait, I'm meeting with some friends next week at Old Crow. At least one of them is female and she was telling me she has had great times there. Is lunch one of the good times, then, to go and avoid the sexual harassment, homophobia, and racism? Because if it's there at all I really don't want to go.


    They are only open for lunch on game days, which probably is not the best time to avoid drunken louts.


    I know when they are open - I was curious about the specific reference to this restaurant and the need to "strategize"; I'm assuming that's based upon experience, experience I was hoping the poster would share. My (female) friend was there for the AFC and NFC championship games, when presumably there was a fair amount of sports fans (I know they aren't thought of very well on this board), and she reported having a great time - this despite watching her Patriots lose.


    But how is that possible, since the poster clearly said it's nothing but douches?! Your friend must not have her microagression radar functioning properly. She is being othered without realizing it. After all, the article writer went to a Big Ten school, hotbeds of rape and misogyny.
  • Post #27 - May 8th, 2014, 4:56 pm
    Post #27 - May 8th, 2014, 4:56 pm Post #27 - May 8th, 2014, 4:56 pm
    chitrader wrote:But how is that possible, since the poster clearly said it's nothing but douches?! Your friend must not have her microagression radar functioning properly. She is being othered without realizing it. After all, the article writer went to a Big Ten school, hotbeds of rape and misogyny.


    It's pretty sad that you are joking about something that is actually true. Rape is a huge problem on these campuses. High rates of sexual assault, such a hilarious joke.

    The fact these areas are perfectly fine sometimes is also not controversial. Late at night on weekends, nights on game days, St. Patricks day, etc. are the worst times. Obviously it's worse if you go to a rowdy bar.

    I also never said the area was all douches. It seems LTHforum might have a significant percentage though.

    edit : I guess people missed the sentence in my post after the joke with the "mean stereotypes: "But really anyone can be a douche. It just takes this simple formula:
    Money + Large Amounts of Alcohol + Total Disrespect For Other People’s Boundaries = Douche Vortex"

    And then proceeded to make light of the desire to avoid sexual assaults. As for colleges, those statistics are not transparent or available. That's why the Department of Justice is investigating them.

    I did a followup post today on why some areas of the city have high rates of bar crime and others don't
    http://chicagoist.com/2014/05/09/do_bar ... rtices.php
    Last edited by mgmcewen on May 9th, 2014, 3:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
  • Post #28 - May 8th, 2014, 5:05 pm
    Post #28 - May 8th, 2014, 5:05 pm Post #28 - May 8th, 2014, 5:05 pm
    mgmcewen wrote:
    chitrader wrote:But how is that possible, since the poster clearly said it's nothing but douches?! Your friend must not have her microagression radar functioning properly. She is being othered without realizing it. After all, the article writer went to a Big Ten school, hotbeds of rape and misogyny.


    It's pretty sad that you are joking about something that is actually true. Rape is a huge problem on these campuses. High rates of sexual assault, such a hilarious joke.

    The fact these areas are perfectly fine sometimes is also not controversial. Late at night on weekends, nights on game days, St. Patricks day, etc. are the worst times. Obviously it's worse if you go to a rowdy bar.

    I also never said the area was all douches. It seems LTHforum might have a significant percentage though.


    Again, you use plenty of scary words with little documentation to back it up. What is the proof that there is a "huge problem" on these Big 10 campuses? Do you have numbers, I'd really be interested to see them. I'd be more than happy to take back everything I said if you had the proof of your attacks on these schools.

    I'm sure most people are tired of this argument, so I'll let it drop here, but my point still stands that this is painting a lot of people with a really broad brush with no facts whatsoever.

    And as you yourself pointed out, the downside is that you may scare off people from otherwise excellent businesses simply due to your own prejudices.
  • Post #29 - May 8th, 2014, 5:32 pm
    Post #29 - May 8th, 2014, 5:32 pm Post #29 - May 8th, 2014, 5:32 pm
    mgmcewen wrote:
    chitrader wrote:I also never said the area was all douches. It seems LTHforum might have a significant percentage though.


    You labeled entire neighborhoods "Douche vortexes." That's clearly generalizing in a lazy and irresponsible way.
    You're confused about who's being the douche here.
  • Post #30 - May 8th, 2014, 5:40 pm
    Post #30 - May 8th, 2014, 5:40 pm Post #30 - May 8th, 2014, 5:40 pm
    Ok, folks. While we all love a good train wreck, the personal attacks and name-calling need to stop immediately. It's fine to discuss the tangential issues about the place here -- hell, a Moderator included it in the subject line he created -- but please, let's keep it civil.

    Thanks,

    =R=
    for the Moderators
    Gardening is a bloodsport --Meghan Kleeman

    Why don't you take these profiteroles and put them up your shi'-ta-holes? --Jemaine & Bret

    There's a horse loose in a hospital --JM

    That don't impress me much --Shania Twain

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