LTHForum.com

Rocked a Jolly Pumpkin Oro De Calabaza (Yellow Label.)
Really enjoyed it. It was heavy, yet not hoppy. Mildly reminded me of Hacker Schorr Weiss with a ton of lemon. Nicely sour. Good for a glass or two.

Also tried the Monk's Cafe Flemish Red. Not a big fan, but I'll try it again. It was kinda musty / medicinal, and a tad on the sweet side. BUT, it reminded me of a bottle of the Duchesse that I bought which was probably sitting on a shelf for a long, long time when I bought it (the bottle was dusty.) That bottle of Douchesse was mustier than the other two or three bottles I've had of it. I wonder if this bottle of Monk's was sitting too long as well. I'd try it again.

_________________
We cannot be friends if you do not know the difference between Mayo and Miracle Whip.

I believe (but not sure) that the mustiness is coming from the brettanomyces and other wild bacteria/yeast in the beer which is intentional, and typically a sought after flavor in wild and sour beers. Most consider bottle conditioned Flanders reds better when older, sometimes aged 10 years or more, similar to wine. Some describe these flavors with descriptors such as horse blanket, mouse taint, wet hay, leather, etc.

Jolly Pumpkin does some other sour beers you should try as well, seebee. Blanking on the names, but they do a sour stout among others, I believe.

Something else to look for would be Noble Rot from Dogfish Head. Not a sour, but unusual and appealing in a similar way.

"This saison-esque science project gets complexity and fermentable sugars from two unique wine grapes sourced with our friends at Alexandria Nicole Cellars in Prosser, Wash.

The first addition is unfermented juice, known as must, from viognier grapes that have been infected with a benevolent fungus called botrytis. This noble rot reduces the water content in the grapes while magnifying their sweetness and complexity. The second is pinot gris must intensified by a process called dropping fruit, where large clusters of grapes are clipped to amplify the quality of those left behind.

Noble Rot is brewed with pils and wheat malts and fermented with a distinct Belgian yeast strain. It has a spicy white wine body and a dry, tart finish."

The little liquor store at Cermak and Clinton had it for quite a while, though I didn't see it last weekend. They rarely have anything even similar to sour beers, alas, so the Noble Rot was a pleasant surprise for a few weeks. They do tend to have a nice selection of very hoppy beers though, particularly various selections from Three Floyds. And I need to get back there to snag a Dogfish Head 120 Minute IPA if they still have some.

Wow using "green harvest" grapes sounds really strange... Dropping fruit happens before the grapes start to ripen and I can't see how they would add anything positive to the ferment (little to no sugar for one...)

That said, now I'll have to try it

_________________
my food shots

Fruit is added for the aroma and in sour beers used to add or compliment the sourness. Last year i postedabout using green grapes in my Berliner weisse, which ended up tasting great!

Noble rot is a good sour beer, and i'm sure the green grapes would have added an extra sharp kick

I have not had many sour beers, but of the few I have had, my favorite was New Belgium/Allagash's Vrienden. Absolutely delicious, it might even be my favorite beer that I have ever had. I had it a year or so ago at the Map Room, where, if I remember correctly, it was cheaper there on tap then sold retail in a bottle.

http://www.newbelgium.com/beer/detail.a ... 4212d5a2a2

(As an aside, an old boss of mine who now co-owns a great beer bar in Atlanta recommends pairing it with a cheddar at the link above)

That night I also tried another sour beer, which I did not care for it at all. I wish I remembered what it was, but all I recall is that it was domestic and the description on the beer list mentioning it as having a real vinegary taste--too much so for me.

You cats that like musty and sour might like Basque ciders. I just picked up a bottle of Sarasola at the package store on Lawrence east of Damen for dinner at Aroy. It worked well. This is what the new wave of cider-makers should be shooting for in the midwest.

http://greatbrewers.com/product/sarasol ... sque-cider

Speaking of ciders (and maybe I should cross-post this in the Virtue thread), the beer manager at the Grand Ave. Binnys told me about a new collaboration cider from Virtue and a British producer named Oliver's that just hit their shelves, Gold Rush. It seems like it's a sour cider, sort of. Per a press release:

The beer guy... was not a fan. He said the lambic elements completely clashed with the cider -- but it does like it would be interesting and possibly worth trying (maybe). I did not notice the price but it's being sold in 16.9oz. bottles.

_________________
best,
dan

Thanks to RAB and REB, who introduced me to them, I've been on quite a Basque cider kick lately (Sarasola, Isastegi, Alzueta, Bere, etc). In fact, I was lucky enough to have been drinking them at the source (or very near it) for the past few days. I agree that they scratch the same itch as sour beers. The main selling points for me are that they're very sour, intensely funky, not sweet and food-friendly. The same could be said of the French Dupont ciders, though they are slightly sweeter and tend to have an aroma that resembles apple juice a bit more. Several Binny's have a decent selection of both varieties, as do some other places around town.

I have high hopes for Virtue (based on how much I enjoy many Goose Island products) but the stuff I've had from them so far hasn't really been to my liking...after multiple tries.

=R=

_________________
I just wanna live until I gotta die. I know I ain't perfect but God knows I try. --Todd Snider

Twitter: ronniesuburban

The Fountainhead has a pair of sour offerings from The Bruery right now (or did, as of Sunday night). Both are excellent renditions of their respective styles -- the Oude Tart was well-balanced between sour/funk/tartness and was just brimming with bright, jammy notes with a medium body and decent carbonation. The Hottenroth was definitely a little funkier than I expected, but it was still enjoyable. If it weren't for the price ($7/tulip), I could have easily drank a lot more of these. I doubt they'll last long, so I'd make haste if you're curious. While I've heard that bottles of the Flemish red are around Chicago right now, I imagine that they're quite scarce (and seem to be priced @ $20/750mL). I don't know if the Berliner Weisse is bottled and/or distributed to Chicago. These are The Bruery's descriptions of the beer:
Oude Tart (7.5% ABV) - Oude Tart is a Flemish-Style Red Ale aged in red wine barrels for 18 months. Pleasantly sour with hints of leather, dark fruit and toasty oak.
Hottenroth (3.1% ABV) - Brewed in memory of my Grandparents (Fred and Sarah Hottenroth), this tart German-style Berliner Weisse is as authentic as it gets. We used lactobacillus and a hint of brettanomyces to sour this very unusual, low gravity wheat beer. To cut the tartness for those with sweeter tastes, raspberry or woodruff syrup is a traditional way to sweeten the beer [fwiw, I was not offered any syrup at Fountainhead]. Almost an extinct style, we hope to help revive the Berliner Weisse in memory of two great people.

Also on the menu are some additional sour/wild ale options -- New Belgium's La Folie, the New Belgium/Lost Abbey collaboration Brett Beer, as well as a few other offerings from The Bruery.

_________________
best,
dan

Just back to notes from my original list:
Saison Dupont - Doubt it's a real "sour." I only got it on the list because an on-line liquor store had the word "sour" in the description of this beer. For my tastes, it might as well have been an India Pale Ale. To me, it was really bad. Ground up aspirin and plastic soaked in club soda was the flavor I got from it. A few ppl I shared with liked it. Not my kinda brew at ALL.

Leifman's Fruitesse - Bordered on too sweet, but it was drinkable. It was a light sweet, not heavy or syrupy. Definitely a summer day brew. It didn't have much beer flavor - more like a light raspberry champagne. I'd buy it again for sharing as an after dinner / dessert brew. I really liked it, but it was not very beery tasting.

_________________
We cannot be friends if you do not know the difference between Mayo and Miracle Whip.

bummer for you! Saison Dupont is a favorite of mine. Maybe it was an off bottle?

_________________
my food shots

I haven't been able to find a single sour beer in any liquor store or department that I've tried in or around Honolulu. Lindeman's lambics are about as close as it comes, and, well, that's not very close...

But! I drove by a gastropub that I decided to check out online, and they have a 12 page, 200 beer list with a Sour/Wild Ale section with 10 selections that appears to be salvation. Grotesquely overpriced at times, but I don't even care anymore. If they actually stock the Cantillon Gueuze that's on the menu then I'm about to become their newest regular. Heck, even the Petrus Aged Pale and Jolly Pumpkin selections that I just took for granted back in Chicago will be like ambrosia at this point.

I'd be happy with a 6 pack of Coors Light in Honolulu, my friend.

_________________
We cannot be friends if you do not know the difference between Mayo and Miracle Whip.

Sour or not, Maui brewing does good stuff. They have a collaboration beer with Jolly Pumpkin which I've tried here in Chicago, and it's quite respectable and sour. It was in a big bottle here in Chicago, but interestingly in hawai'i I've heard it's in cans. I'm not sure how the collab worked, but maybe the beers are slightly different in the respective locations (can vs. bottle). http://www.mauibrewingco.com/mbc/MBCCannedBeer.html

My tasting group did a side by side of these. The Maui version in cans had no sourness at all, and wasn't very pleasant otherwise. The JP version is great though.

If you like them seriously funky, my favorite is Hanssens Oude Gueuze. It is pretty heavy on the lactic acid flavor, reminding me a bit of sauerkraut or fermented pickle brine. That said, I love it. Lively acidity, hefty funk, hints of citrus, wood, maybe even sweaty gym socks. Crisp, refreshing, great on a summer's day. I love love love this beer.

The pickle brine description reminds me of one of my favorite sour beers: Goose Island's Madame Rose, of which there are still some of this year's recently released bottles sitting on a few retail shelves around town.

=R=

_________________
I just wanna live until I gotta die. I know I ain't perfect but God knows I try. --Todd Snider

Twitter: ronniesuburban

I recently tried The Bruery's sour stout - "Tart of Darkness" - which is aged in oak barrels with their own, seemingly proprietary, blend of yeasts and bacteria. This one pushes the limit of pucker, squeezing the life out of one's salivary glands on first sip, there seems to be an acetic (in addition to lactic) acid component that is quite strong up front. The roasty malty cherry notes that are present definitely take a backseat - I think this could be a much more enjoyable beer with a bit more balance. Those who like a pucker-punch will certainly dig it.

I finally tracked this down at the newer, larger Whole Foods in Kailua today. While other MBC beers are easy enough to find, I'd had no luck with this collab anywhere else. Then again, this Whole Foods also stocked a number of Jolly Pumpkin brews that I haven't seen anywhere else on this island. One of the WF beer guys was there when I was looking around, and after discussing sour beers for a bit he echoed ziggy by letting me know that the canned version was significantly less sour.

And yeah, Maui Brewing has been a nice find for me. It's been surprisingly difficult to find a hoppy beer that actually tastes good (I am dead set on a pilgrimage to 3 Floyds when I next visit Chicago, and will consider offering them my second born to start distributing to Hawaii), but the MBC IPA I picked up was a pleasant change. I wish I was as pleased with Kona Brewing's selections, especially since I'm 5 minutes away from their brewpub on O'ahu, but almost everything I've tried from them has been a pale shadow of whatever style it's supposed to be. Even their Wailua Wheat brewed with passion fruit - about as local as you can get - compares poorly to Chicago's own 5 Lizard, which packs considerably more passion fruit flavor.

Anyway, really digging the Sobrehumano Palena'ole right now, many thanks for mentioning it. The beer guy at WF mentioned that they should be getting a few Cantillon varieties in soon, including their gueuze. I'm going to have to make it a point to make the long drive over to this WF more often and talk to him more, as it apparently goes fast and this is likely to be my equivalent of Pappy Van Winkle 15 year...

Speaking of Cantillon in Hawaii. Not sure if you saw that Zwanze Day 2012 has a location in Honolulu, REAL a gastropub. I'm not at all familiar with Hawaiian geography, but if that is in relative proximity to you, I'd highly recommend making plans to partake. Only 16 locations in the US were selected by Jean at Cantillon to receive kegs of Zwanze 2012.

http://www.cantillon.be/br/3_21

That's fantastic. REAL is the gastropub I mentioned a few posts up that has the best beer list I've seen on the island thus far. Now I'll just have to keep my fingers crossed that my wife doesn't get scheduled to work on December 1st.

Received this in a trade earlier this week. Really enjoying it. Tons of raspberry, nice sour and a little hint of funk.

A bit out of the region for most but seeing as there are some traders* on the forum, Captain Lawrence in Elmsford, NY recently released bottles of Barrel Select Gold. We managed to get out there in time and picked up our share and it is SUCH a beautiful beer (GABF judges agree, this beer won gold this year). Barrel Select Gold is their Liquid Gold aged in Cuvee de Castleton barrels with brettanomyces aged for about year. Clearly from the description it's not the most sour beer, if you're looking to melt your tongue or take a layer of enamel off your teeth this isn't going to hit the spot. It has these beautiful tropical flavors (kind of coconut/pineapple) with a light cheesy funk, sweet tart candy sourness, and a softness rounding out the beer. One of the best AWAs I've had, I highly recommend seeking this one out.

*Some metrics for your interest, $15 per bottle, 240 bottles, 6 bottle per person limit and sold out in one day.

I should check in on this thread more often. I've never even heard of Madame Rose, so I'll have to keep an eye out, as that sounds like it's right up my alley.

Really digging both of Bruery sours I've tried and mentioned in detail up thread, especially the oude tart.

All 3 of the main goose island sours (madame rose, lolita, and juliet) are worth picking up if you see them.

The large Binny's off Clybourn had a few bottles left of Madame Rose as of yesterday afternoon. It might be worth calling them to see if they would hold a bottle for you if you can't get out there soon. Juliet is everywhere, too. That's a rye beer aged in wine barrels with blackberries (whereas Madame Rose is a brown ale with cherries, also in wine barrels -- not to mention wild yeasts, too). I find it a little drier and spicier, on account of the rye, but perhaps not as well balanced as Madame Rose. Still well worth trying if you haven't had it before (and, again, Chicago seems to be awash in Juliet at the moment).

_________________
best,
dan

Quick shout out for Larry, the beer mgr at the big Binny's on Clybourn. He schooled me on some sours, and pinpointed some "must tries" for me after I told him which ones I've liked so far. The dude knew his shizz. After chatting with him, I felt compelled to stop by the cs desk and give him major props to the ppl behind the counter. There were two ppl behind the counter. I walked up, they both asked me what they could help with, and I said, "Just wanted to say that Larry, the beer guy is FKN AWESOME." They both looked at me like they heard that 1000 times before. One of them said, "Yeah, we get that a LOT." Have a nice handful of new bottles to try.

_________________
We cannot be friends if you do not know the difference between Mayo and Miracle Whip.

Trial:
Victory "Wild Devil"

Yawn.
Despite the promise on the back label of tang, funk, citrus and pine, and some blather about using brettanomyces yeast, I found it dull. It was a little on the hoppy side for me, and just kinda boring. This was a bottle I had in the fridge for a while, figured I'd crack it open to rotate some of the new stock in.

_________________
We cannot be friends if you do not know the difference between Mayo and Miracle Whip.