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This thread was spawned by another in the Eating Out section. I wanted to post on a comment that was made by nr706, but he thought this line of discussion would be more appropriate to this arena (as do I). I think we need a thread for the discussion of Brewpubs anyhow.


I am going to have to agree with nr706. After having very disappointing experiences with the over-filtered and under-flavored beer at other Rock Bottom Breweries, I simply wrote off the whole chain. Because of that, I avoided the location in Chicago. Then I was talking with a friend, who has a bountiful knowledge of beer and whose opinion I trust, about the pitiful lack of decent brewpubs within the city of Chicago. He told me that the brewer at the Chicago RB was turning out some really exceptional specialty brews. At first I thought he was kidding, but I went there, and he was right. I even had a long conversation with the brewer, who showed a genuine passion for the brewing arts, which genuinely surprised me, given my past experiences with the chain.

As far as Flatlanders goes, I used to really like the beer when Greg Browne was the brewer there. I'll have to agree that the brews have gone downhill signifcantly since his departure. While they still use Greg's basic recipes, I think they have dumbed down the flavors to make them more commercially acceptable. Although, I still like the Honest Abes' Ale (at leaast the last time I was there). I believe Greg is still the brewer at Mickey Finn's in Libertyville, where his arrival had just the opposite effect. The beer went from being boring and middle of the road to being quite drinkable after he started brewing there.

On the other hand, the RAM, which is also a chain, has some pretty nothing beers. While I wouldn't quite describe them as tragic, they are pretty similar to what I have had at some of the Rock Bottom locations. The best thing I can say is they come in tall glasses, and they are cold.


EDIT: I changed the title of this thread to reflect it's more generalized nature.

I posted my reply in the Eating Out section, but just want to reiterate that I haven't visited the River North location of Rock Bottom for some time, and assumed it was the same, and that they all were the same. I do have to say that it was very bad in the past, but I also must retract any criticism of the current operation-sounds like this guy is on top of his game, and I'm eager to try his stuff.
On a related note, has anyone else felt that the original Goose Island has slipped? The last 2 times I've had flat, warmish beers. I know that they are brewing good beers, but it seems as though the care in storing them has gone out the window. The last episode of this was perhaps in October.

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I love animals...they're delicious!

Thanks, d4v3, for bringing this discussion over here.

I had heard good things about Flatlander's, but I'd never been, which is why I chose to go there last night. Judging from your post, I'm thinking that what I heard may have been from the days when Greg Brown was there. I can't confirm that he's still at Mickey Finn's, but I had a very good ESB and another good IPA there earlier this year (can you tell I'm a hophead?)

I tried the Honest Abe Ale - both the traditional draft and the hand-pulled, cask-conditioned variety, and they were fine, no obvious flaws, but not worth going out of your way for. Despite my affinity for hops, I could have used a bit more malt flavor.

Also, apparently Flatlander's has a rock band open house on Monday night's, starting at 9:30 p.m. Last night, the place was (predictably) crowded with Bear fans, but much of the fourth quarter was marred by the host band turning off the Bears audio so they could do sound checks, then being told by the bar to turn the Bears audio back on, only to have them go back to sound checks a minute or two later, then to be told by the bar to put the Bears back on again, ad infinitum. I left with the noise of a version of "Sweet Home Chicago" that might pretend to the heights of an average middle school garage band.

Next time, I'll go a few miles further north on Milwaukee to Mickey Finn's.

Rock Bottom Restaurant and Brewery
1 W. Grand Ave.
Chicago

Flatlander's Chophouse and Sports Lodge
200 Village Green (off Milwaukee, just north of Old Half Day Rd.)
Lincolnshire

Mickey Finn's Brewery
412 N. Milwaukee Ave.
Libertyville

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Chicago Craft Beer Week!

I think the last time I stopped at Flatlanders was a year ago. What I used to really like about the Honest Abe's is that it had a pronounced earthy peat flavor. I always assumed that was from a combination of some specialty malt and the type of yeast used. I don't know if it still has that taste. You probably noticed that most of the customers at Flatlanders are not the type to appreciate strongly flavored unfiltered ales. When they first opened they did not carry domestic bottles, and the most common question you heard was "What tastes most like Bud/Miller Light?" I think the market has influenced the taste of the beers. One of the good things about Flatlander's was that it was the first area Brewpub with edible food. I can't really say the same about Mickey Finn's. However, the Firkin across the street (and a block down), has excellent food, and a pretty good beer selection. So when I am in Libertyville, I will usually sit at the bar at Mickey Finn's for a few , then cross Milwaukee to the Firkin for dinner and to see if they have anything unusual on tap (or the other way around).

Firkin
515 N. Milwaukee
Libertyville, IL 60048
847 367 6168
847 367 5763
http://www.firkinoflibertyville.com

A bit of advice. The regular lineup of beers that Rock Bottom has on its print menu are predetermined corporate recipes and rather mediocre. Where Pete Crowley (the brewer in Chicago) shines is with his seasonals and brewmasters specials, which are usually only posted on the chalkboards above the bar. For example, his specials recently included a Strong Scotch Ale, a Belgian-style Wit, an Imperial Pilsner (quite hoppy), and an Imperial Stout and a Porter that were both aged in wooden Bourbon Barrels. All were excellent.
The general stereotype of major corporate chain brewpubs producing pseudo-craft beer designed to have lowest common denominator appeal still holds true IMO. When I roll into a new town I always put independent brewpubs higher on my list than the local Rock Bottom or other major chain. Pete in Chicago is a major exception, and I'm sure there are a few others, although I have never seen another Rock Bottom that has as many or close to the quality of brewers specials that the Chicago locale has.




Are you sure they weren't Cask conditioned beers from the handpump which are intended to be "flat" (no artificial CO2) and "warm" (cellar temp)? Another possibility would be a beer from the normal taps, but that was barrel aged, which produces a flater beer. I go to Goose on Clybourn once a week and I haven't noticed any changes in the temp or carbonation of their normal beers. Although, IMHO most bars and brewpubs overcarbonate and way over chill their beers which mutes their flavor complexity. Thus, if Goose was warmer and flater than most, I would consider it a plus.

Living out in Westmont I don't make the journey up to the Lincolnshire or Libertyville areas, despite my earnest desire to check out Firkin. But there are some good brewpubs out west. America's Brewpub at the Walter Payton's Roundhouse can be a little hit or miss on their beers, but they do put out some good seasonals and experimental beers and their normal lineup is not bad. They serve a pretty nice menu and the atmosphere is quite unique with the center courtyard, and adjoining entertainmen venues. Plus you have the casino a stone's throw away.

More locally for me in Downer's Grove, and also with locations in Oswego and West Dundee is Emmett's. My biggest beef with them is a slow tap rotation and too few specialty brews available at once. But they are willing to experiment and I've never had a bad beer there. Plus they make a pretty good burger along with their pretty solid menu.

Lunar Brewing in Villa Park is a great little brewery in a neighborhood bar, their only food is frozen pizza, but they brew amazing beers, particularly in light of the size and character of the operation.

I'll second the trumpeting of Rock Bottom - Chicago. They put out some great big beers, and are in the hands of a great brewmaster. Word has it the brewmaster at the new Lombard location is also going to have a bit of a free hand to experiment when that operations gets going a bit, but I have yet to visit and check it out.

Emmett's Ale House
5200 Main Street
Downers Grove, Illinois 60515

Lunar Brewing Company
54 E. St. Charles Road
Villa Park, Illinois 60181

America's
205 N. Broadway
Aurora, Illinois 60505-2663

They are building a new Rock Bottom in Orland Park (just the skeleton of the building is up so far, but it won't be long, I'm sure before it is open). I've never been to Rock Bottom, but I'm sure my husband will want to check it out once it is opened. There is another brewery/restaurant in the Orland Park area, Harrison's. I don't ordinarily order beer when we are out to eat, but the food at Harrison's is good and I've been told the beer is good, although nothing out of the ordinary. Randy has also been to the Three Floyds Brewpub in Munster and wants to go back with me soon. He very much enjoyed the sandwich he had there.

I think we have been spoiled by having Flossmoor Station not even five minutes away from the house.

Suzy

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" There is more stupidity than hydrogen in the universe, and it has a longer shelf life."
- Frank Zappa

I forgot all about this place. I was there once several years ago, and was impressed with what they were doing. They had a really small setup, but as recall, the beer was quite good. It had that hand-crafted appearance and flavor, like good homebrew. I am glad they are still in business. I will have to make the trip out there soon.

NOTICE:I changed the title of this thread to reflect its more general nature

griffen,
Thanks for the tips on Rock Bottom. As for the Goose, they were not cask conditioned(which I don't care for as a rule), or barrel aged. I understand about lower fizz and warmer temp being desirable, but this was beyond the pale. Been going there since they opened, and never encountered this. Maybe a couple flukes-guess I'll have to drag myself back there to continue my quality control mission!

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I love animals...they're delicious!

I've had no problems with Goose, and it still is one of my favorite brewpubs in Chicago. Their Bourbon County Stout is simply one of the most remarkable imperial stouts I've ever had--the only competition with it is Three Floyd's Dark Lord. It's a BIG beer, and not one of those you want to start your night with, as it tends to eclipse the taste of anything that follows. Definitely not a session brew. I try to make it out to Goose at least once a month, and my only complaint is the bar staff can sometimes be a little snotty.

I would think Three Floyd's should qualify as Chicago-area. After Bell's, Three Floyd's is my favorite brewery, and they put out some fantastic beer. They're most well-known for their heavy hand with the hops, so if you like pale ales, this is the brewery for you. I've also been pleasantly impressed by their food selection: they have a decent selection of finger food: from Scotch eggs to Buffalo calamari to fried green tomatoes, as well as specialty pizzas (Thai shrimp, andouille & pepperoni, etc.), hamburgers, pork chops, that sort of thing. For pub food, it's a notch or two above average.

Harrisons is pretty average. The only beer of theirs that I like is the stout. Everything else I've tried (and I've been their at least half a dozen times) is certainly not offensive, but nothing I would go out of my way for.

As opposed to Flossmoor Station, which may be the crowning jewel of Chicago-area brewpubs. They are always worth a detour, and now their great beers can also be found on tap at the Maple Tree Inn in Blue Island.

Also, I have not been to this place yet, but the beer aficionados at both Flossmoor Station and Three Floyd's Brewery speak very highly of Shoreline Brewery in Michigan City, Indiana.

Three Floyd's Brewpub
9570 Indiana Parkway
Munster, IN 46321

Flossmoor Station Restaurant & Brewery
1035 Sterling Avenue
Flossmoor, Illinois 60422

Harrison's Restaurant & Brewery
15845 S La Grange Rd
Orland Park, IL 60462

Shoreline Brewery
208 Wabash Street
Michigan City IN 46360

I will second Three Floyd's and The Maple tree for Flossmoor Station brews. It's just sad The Maple Tree doesn't want Three Floyd's anymore. Kiss and make up! Get Three Floyds back!
Three Floyd's has an incredible smoked beef brisket chili. A must have!

What happened between Three Floyd's and Maple Tree? I was scratching my head, too, over the lack of Floyd's last time I was in there, as in the past they offered quite a few of their products.

Floyd's, being basically a two man operation, couldn't keep up with the Tree's demand...you know Charlie... If Floyd couldn't deliver when asked...don't bring your product here anymore. Kinda sad but it's his place. I still go there all the time however.

Kuma's quit carrying 3 Floyds on tap also. A while back, because of an increased demand for their bottled product, Nick Floyd decided to temporarily suspend the production of certain kegged beers, until their production capacity caught up. It was probably a smart move, and I think all flavors of 3 Floyds are available again in kegs. Unfortunately, they lost a few loyal customers in the process. However, now that Bell's has halted distribution in Illinois, you may see 3 Floyd's on Tap make a come back at some places.

I'll try to talk Charlie into getting it back. Chuck's BBQ carries Three Floyds in bottles.

Bamboo Blue, an asian-inspired restaurant in Homewood, also carries a nice selection of beers. You can get their "Bamboo Brew" there exclusively -- it's from Flossmoor Station.

Back when Charlie of the Maple Tree had his second barbeque restaurant right across the street, Snaker Jake's, we used to get the "Wee Heavy Kilt Kicker" as our beverage of choice. This was also from Flossmoor Brewery. I've never seen that again, either. A shame.

Suzy

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" There is more stupidity than hydrogen in the universe, and it has a longer shelf life."
- Frank Zappa

Count me in as another convert to Rock Bottom. I too, had not been there for years, after writing the place off as a chain with lowest common denominator formula beer.

Armed with the knowledge from this thread, I stopped in and prompty drank through their current list of specialty beers, missing only their Hefeweizen. These are all Big beers, and I wouldn't recommend that feat unless you know what you're doing (and know that the Grand CTA stop is right outside the door).

Some drinkers might find some of these samplings overly sweet, for instance their Bourbon Cask Stout, or the Blitzen Belgian (made with amber candy sugar and orange peel) but they are deliciously sweet to my tastes and the 9 and 10%ABVs respectively keep them from being cloying.

The Sir Hopsalot Double IPA will satisfy any hophead, although it probably isn't up there with The Dogfish 90 Minute,Two Bros. Heavy Handed or other wet-hopped beers, as far as bitterness.

Santa's Revenge Batch #666 is described as a "high alcohol mess" with 3 lbs of hops per barrel. The Scotch Ale was amazingly complex, filling the mouth with malt, but I'll admit my tongue was starting to lose cohesion by that point.

I imagine a criticism of this line up might be a lack of sophistication, but sophistication requires restraint and subtlety, these beers have none of that, just pure, fermented character.

How does the Bourbon Cask compare to the Bourbon County from GI? I really never found it to be sweet.

sidetrack -- Anyone been to one of these:
Goose Island Clybourn's Weekly Beer Release
Available only at the brewpubs, our unique "pub beers" showcase Goose Island brewers' most innovative concepts. With new beer introduced weekly, the Clybourn brewpub will serve complementary tastings of the latest beer each Tuesday at 6:00 p.m. - and the brewer who created it will be on-hand to provide information on the beer and answer any questions.

SSDD

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He was constantly reminded of how startlingly different a place the world was when viewed from a point only three feet to the left.

Deepdish Pizza = Casserole

yup
we're there more often than not

its a free taste (about 2 oz) of the beer of the week, distributed to all who wish in the main bar room.

Will (the brewer) describes the beer, its ingredients/brewing and usually also the inspiration for the name. And, appetizers are half price at the bar between 4 and 6.

This week's beer premier was the SOB (a sweet stout) and a bonus coffee stout. (They had a stout fest this past weekend so there were 4 stouts on tap -- the other two were a rye stout on cask and their standard "honest" stout. I think honest stout was the 4th... I just remember there were 4 stouts in addition to about 6 other beers.)

Getting the inside scoop about the new beers each Tues is nice, but Goose is actually pretty good about giving people small tastes of their beers on any night (or you can order a sampler) which is a great way to start learning what styles you like.

IMHO the Rock Bottom Bourbon Cask is usually more restrained than the Goose BCS, which I love but others find way too sweet and alcoholic.

Meanwhile I *love* the RB Blitzen at the downtown location (for the same reasons -- sweet and strong).
(note RB recipes differ across locations -- the blitzen at lombard was lighter and hoppier -- which others may prefer, but me, not so much.)

Thanks, it's one of those things I've heard about, and keep wanting to make it to. I'll have to get up there in the near future.

SSDD

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He was constantly reminded of how startlingly different a place the world was when viewed from a point only three feet to the left.

Deepdish Pizza = Casserole

Back from the dead post, but with reason:

Shoreline Brewery
208 Wabash Street
Michigan City IN 46360
www.shorelinebrewery.com

Despite the 60 mile drive from the southwest side of Chicago (taking Cicero Ave to I-294 from Midway) it's worth it. Three Floyds is my favorite brewery in this area, my palate desires hoppy and strong flavored beers. Shoreline does not disappoint and the food is very good. Shoreline offers live entertainment late night and a much more roomy atmosphere than 3 Floyds. With that said, THREE FLOYDS is still my favorite brewpub, but I would say that Shoreline is just as good with more room in the place.

It is very easy to get to, and afterwards you might want to hop over the hill (2 minutes away) to Blue Chip casino to sober up before the long drive home, get a room, or designate a driver.

(from the website):

The comparable to Alpha King was:

Sum Nug India Pale Ale… Summit and Nugget hops make a great combination in this American style IPA. Super hoppy from start to finish with a huge malt backbone made this beer an instant favorite at the Shoreline.

Also tasty and smooth was:

Bavarian Bombshell. . . Known as Schwarzbier in Germany, a rather strong, but surprisingly smooth, black lager. Nutty, chocolate flavors on the front, with a smooth, velvet finish. A rare beer to find in America. Prost!

Extremely good for people that don't like lots of hops:

Don’t Panic! English Pale Ale…Classic English style pale ale, medium bodied, lightly hopped to provide a slight citrus note to the finish of a malty start.



The food I had:

Fresh Sour Dough Pretzels (they were basically pretzel biscuits, very good!)
Served with Shoreline pub mustard, and beer cheese (2 dipping cups, one filled with the mustard and the other melted hot cheese!)

Buffalo Calamari
Lightly breaded, fried calamari, tossed in buffalo hot sauce, served with celery, carrots, and blue-cheese dressing (it was very soft, not chewy at all and VERY tasty, cut into very small pieces)

Moving this discussion over here, since it seems to be getting away from Bell's and moving to area brewpubs in general.

As are many others on LTH, I homebrew (all-grain), and I have the blue ribbons from a number of competitions to prove it. I've also shared my brews with other LTHers, and I don't think I've gotten a "yecchhh" yet (although maybe they were just being polite). I have a collection of dozens of glasses from brewpubs I've visited.

But in my travels, I've never found a brewpub that was much better than GI. Equal to GI - certainly there are many. Worse than GI? There are very, very many. (Who remembers the Tap and Growler?)

So I'm curious about the "many, many better places than GI" that you're referring to. Can you provide a list, and tell us why they're so much better? Maybe I'll adjust my next scheduled trip ...

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Chicago Craft Beer Week!

Personally, I think that the beer is good at GI, but the food is merely OK>

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SAVING ONE DOG MAY NOT CHANGE THE WORLD, BUT IT CHANGES THE WORLD FOR THAT ONE DOG.
American Brittany Rescue always needs foster homes. Please think about helping that one dog.
http://www.americanbrittanyrescue.org

Unfortunately most brewpubs look at food as simply something to soak up the beer. After all, the markup on a pint of beer is about 1500%, whereas the markup on food might be 150%. Still, the pepper encrusted stilton cheeseburger at GI is quite edible (for a beer sponge). Although now that it costs $10.50, it is not nearly as appealing.

Sure -

Let's get the obvious out of the way - Bell's in Kalamazoo but i'm sure you've been there. Great in house beers, a good stage with some good music that comes through there, and like most brewpubs, decent food.

Bells

Another place that i stopped a night before i hit a ferry across the lake on the motorcyle trip would be Jamesport Brewing in Michigan. I've stopped there only once and it was typical - great beer and decent food. I have a hard time remembering leaving the place This one is more comparable to GI

Jamesport

When i lived in Colorado, i never actually visited New Belgium (stupid, i know) but we drank a lot of the brews out of there. So, can't comment on the food/atmosphere, but the beers were great. Except for the Sunshine Wheat, which imo, was horrid.

New Belgium

Great Lakes Brewing is one of my favorite breweries that I've had a chance to sample. Unfortunately again, i have not had a chance to go there, so I cannot comment on the food/atmosphere. The main lines that you can get here (say, at Lake View Liquors) are exceptional. Imo, better than the majority of what comes out of GI.
Great Lakes

Then, there are the couple closer to being local places that i am very fond of - more so than GI - and those two would be

Three Floyds. While some people don't like it, Gumballhead is just a beautiful take on the American Wheat. More hops than you would expect, but oh soo good.

and

Two Brothers. My two favorite year round accessible beers being their Ebel's Weiss, and Prairie Path golden ale - drink it with some pizza.

Adjusting a trip for any of these places would be something that i would do.

Great Lakes brewing is great, and their brew pub is also excellent with a great atmosphere, better than your usual brewpub food, and a good selection of seasonals. Nosferatu...mmmm...

To me they would be about equal to GI. With perhaps GI getting a slight edge for some of their limited production beers, but I can't say for sure not having as much opportunity to sample the Great Lakes brewpub only beers.

edited to add:

And the Eccentric Cafe (Bells) is a must stop if on 94 through Michigan. The draught beer is ridiculously cheap and they just upgrade their general store and put it in front of the building with most of their beers, brewing supplies, and Bells paraphernalia available.

Sounds about right with Great Lakes - i didn't want to write "what i've heard" about the actual establishment, but it seems to be a pretty consistent opinion.

Also note - If you're at Bell's with an Illinois license, enjoy the discount!

Is this place still in operation? Anybody been there lately? I went there once a couple of years ago, and really liked what they were doing. Say what you will about Illinois laws, but here is an example of an extremely low capacity small batch brewer that was able to open a joint that sells what is basically homebrew without much problem. Of course, if they tried to sell off-premises, it would be an entirely different story.

I agree completely with everything you've written about these brewpubs, but my question remains - why do you think they're significantly better than GI? (I'd say they're all roughly equal - maybe a little less than equal for Jamesport.)

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Chicago Craft Beer Week!

Yeah, thats the main problem right there. That BS law needs to be updated severely.

Is this the place that brews primarily Belgium style beers? If it is, i'm guessing it's still around. A couple of my co-workers, when i worked in DG not too long ago (June '07), loved this place but we never got around to all getting over there together because we worked the night shift. unfortunate. That is, if it is in fact the brewery in villa park they were referring to.