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According to the most recent edition of the 2006 edition of All New Square Foot Gardening, you can build an SFG "with a plywood bottom and place it on your patio or picnic tabletop...You may want to use smaller SFG boxes on the patio or deck such as 2X2 or 2X4." (page 51).

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“We all have to stand before the kitchen gods.” Chef Jacob Sahaya Kumar Aruni

Dave -

Thank you! I will be off to pickup the book today. On a side note, do you know if he lists any issues with drafts under the bottom? Or drainage issues?

No, he doesn't seem to address that issue, but with a plywood bottom, drafts shouldn't be too much of a problem. Drainage...again, he doesn't address, but it could be an issue -- with the regular square foot garden, water drains through the weed cloth; not sure where water would go with a plywood bottom unless you drilled holes in it (which may be the way to go). I believe you are charting new ground here -- maybe you should email Mel Bartholomew (Square Foot Guru) and ask (and please post his responses).

David

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“We all have to stand before the kitchen gods.” Chef Jacob Sahaya Kumar Aruni

He does talk about drainage. I don't recall if he addresses the deck issue specifically or not, but I might suggest setting a two by two box on bricks or cinder blocks so your deck doesn't rot beneath.

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LTHForum Kansas City

Drainage he definitely discusses, but not as far as I can tell regarding boxes placed on decks. It will be interesting to see how this turns out.

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“We all have to stand before the kitchen gods.” Chef Jacob Sahaya Kumar Aruni

Check the IL extension office (I think I linked to it somewhere) about the Earthbox program - specific to your needs.

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No guts, no glory.
http://www.chicagonow.com/quips-travails-braised-oxtails
http://quipstravailsandbraisedoxtails.blogspot.com/

As of last Thursday I have tomato (San Marzano, Golden Queen, Tip Top and Brandywine), Chinese eggplant, sweet pepper, and okra seedlings in the ground. We also planted mesculin that's now ready for a first cutting and haricot verts which are just starting to produce their first beans. This is our the first large scale vegetable effort so we shall see how it goes. My son just loves the gardening and I have to admit that it has really grown on me as well - no pun intended. We also planted some raspberry canes this year, and last year's strawberries have taken over the flower garden and are now themselves flowering in profusion so we're looking forward to those in the coming months.

Out of curiosity, does anyone else have a serious squirrel problem with their tomatos? Last year as folks posted their wonderful tomato crop pictures, I could only look on in envy as I think I probably harvested no more than 15 ripe tomatoes all season. The rest were lost to squirrel predation or were harvested green and then ripened indoors. I had a similar problem the prior year though last year was far worse. I have tried a number of of legal, grey area legal and outright illegal methods to deter their advance to limited or no avail.

At the risk of anthropomorphism it seems like I am engaged in a classic and protracted counter-insurgency with a thinking, sentient and devious enemy bent on my destruction or mental health breakdown whichever comes first. My wife derives great merriment from my Ahabesque obsession with these canny mauraders, especially the time last year when one of the vermin ate half of a beautiful, nearly ripe tomato and deposited the remainder on one of our window sills. My questions are:
1. Has anyone tried fox or coyote urine, and did it have any effect on city squirrels?
2. This year I am planning to try vegetable oil blended with Scotch Bonnet and Thai chilis applied directly to the tomatoes. Will this negatively impact the tomatos i.e. will the oil or casapcin blister the tomato skin or prevent ripening?
3. Does anyone have any other thoughts or ideas for detering city squirrels?
As always, thanks in advance for any suggestions.
John

For the past couple of years, I've used the following four techniques with some success: Plant more than I can use a la Rabbit Hill; periodically broadcast blood meal on the ground (stinky but available at any garden store); surround my plot with marigolds (stinky, but less so); and drop bitten vegetables on the ground under the plant in hopes that they'll go for easy prey.

I live too near Rogers Park for capsaicin to do much good; they must be conditioned from all that dumpster jerk chicken and mole ...

I've used horticultural diatomaceous earth and plain old BBQ grill ashes (we use lump charcoal) dusted on the plant's leaves which helps reduce crawling critters (keep it away from the flowers, it will affect your pollinators)

Another technique I've heard of is making sure pests have access to water - though this doesn't seem to make a difference for me.

_________________
No guts, no glory.
http://www.chicagonow.com/quips-travails-braised-oxtails
http://quipstravailsandbraisedoxtails.blogspot.com/

This I like (and also provides a way to dispose of ashes). I take it this practice does no damage to the plant or the way it grows...

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“We all have to stand before the kitchen gods.” Chef Jacob Sahaya Kumar Aruni

Just got back from Fertile Gardens on Diversey in Lakeview and most of their Veggie and Herb Seedlings are $2.99. IS that about normal for the city?

Last year I picked most of mine up at a farmers market in Michigan so I don't know what to expect.

Nope, as long as you're using wood ashes and you're discreet (it does make your soil a little more alkaline if you go crazy, usually soil is pretty acid and that's a good thing; it has a bunch of nutrients in it as well; if you plan to use lime, wood ash is a good substitute) Just make sure you get it on leaves and stems as much as possible and not on the flowers - apparently it makes bugs and slugs itchy, but that includes bees as well. (I can't find sources to back this up, other than the nutrition, and I don't remember where I heard it, but at the very least it's done no harm for me)

The price you quote seems about in line in general, jpeac2 - even at local hardware stores. At Meineke's on Touhy, the 4-packs are a good bit cheaper per plant; I think $1.99, but the singles are on the high end of $2. Herbs seem to run $3 or higher per plant.

_________________
No guts, no glory.
http://www.chicagonow.com/quips-travails-braised-oxtails
http://quipstravailsandbraisedoxtails.blogspot.com/

Thought all you fellow gardeners might want to know that the city of chicago is offering highly subsidezed rain barrels to residents starting May 21.
The cost is only $40...quite a bit less than what I've seen them going for (albeit, I can't say that I've done any extensive price comparison). Unfortunately it is for city residents only, but those that have a garden in the 606 zip might want to pick one up in an effort to conserve clean/tap water and produce a "greener" garden. Here is the link to the city's flyer on the program.

Rain Barrels from City of Chicago

Hi,

I have been looking at garden structures this evening for some John Davis climbing roses I intend to plant. I have the issue of backing these roses against a neighbor's fence. I don't want them leaning or anchored to the fence. If my neighbor ever changes the fence, then the roses will suffer.

Why am I mentioning this on a vegetable garden thread? I think I found the best solution for my issue may be vegetable garden ladders. These are designed to accomodate vining vegetables with hanging vegetables. These are not only space savers, they vegetables are cleaner, less rot and less accessible to slugs.

No personal experience, I just thought for small gardens this may be a usefull idea. If someone has experience, then please comment.

Regards,

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Cathy2

"You'll be remembered long after you're dead if you make good gravy, mashed potatoes and biscuits." -- Nathalie Dupree
Facebook, Twitter, Greater Midwest Foodways, Road Food 2012: Podcast

clb,
Thank you!!! I've been looking for a way to get a rain barrel for 3 years but have not been able to bring my stingy ass to pay the $100-$150 that I see them listed for in the catalogs. This is just awesome news.
John

I picked up a food fact yesterday that I have yet to confirm, to wit: beans are better if cooked in rainwater. I am unclear regarding the science behind this assertion.

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“We all have to stand before the kitchen gods.” Chef Jacob Sahaya Kumar Aruni

Hmmm...there's definately something to say about cooking them in water and bacon grease...but rainwater vs. tap? If you do a taste test comparison, please let me know whether you confirm or deny this interesting tidbit.

I googled "rainwater cooking beans" and got this:

http://italianfood.about.com/od/beans/r/blr1610.htm

So, apparently there are some who actually do believe rainwater is good for cooking legumes, though I still don't know why that would be.

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“We all have to stand before the kitchen gods.” Chef Jacob Sahaya Kumar Aruni

It's pre-acidulated in the US?

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No guts, no glory.
http://www.chicagonow.com/quips-travails-braised-oxtails
http://quipstravailsandbraisedoxtails.blogspot.com/

Incidentally, I planted the patty pans today. Thanks for the seeds. I'll include photos when they come up.

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“We all have to stand before the kitchen gods.” Chef Jacob Sahaya Kumar Aruni

This morning, I headed to the Cheney Mansion in Oak Park for the annual plant and herb sale:



Young tomato plants were $3.00 each, so I got eight heirlooms, including Aunt Gerty’s, Flammes and several Black Krims.

Here’s a shot of the Cheney Mansion (formerly owned by a lady Frank Wright was having an affair with); note native Oak Parker (honkius gentrificus) doing the traditional head carry so common at this ritual event.



Between bursts of rain, I finished putting in the garden today.



In the above pic, to the left, is the MHays Patty Pan Paddock, seeds courtesy of namesake.

To the right of the frame, you can see the Stevez Commemorative Square Foot Organic Garden, showing evidence of some emergent microgreens, Japanese eggplant, exotic beets, and lots of other stuff.

Against the back fence, and hard to see at this stage in its development, is the Gypsy Boy Lima Bean Grove – I got the idea for growing limas from his thread.

I’ve also got some herbs mixed in there: sage, basil, oregano and Italian parsley.

Marigolds have been strategically positioned to deter still-pissed-off rabbit who was displaced for this installation.

Still have room for a few other items….

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“We all have to stand before the kitchen gods.” Chef Jacob Sahaya Kumar Aruni

Late to jump on the thread.... I'm a container gardener in the NW burbs.

Anyone... anywhere... seen chocolate mint plants anywhere? I've been to eight nurseries with no luck. I had it last year and loved it, but no one seems to have it this year.

missjw -

Per a suggestion from another thread I went to :
Gethsemane Garden Center
5739 N Clark St
Chicago, IL 60660
(773) 878-5915

And they did in fact have the chocolate Mint plants (was there yesterday).

Best of luck!

So for the past two years I have tried -- and failed -- to grow zucchini and related squash. Seems my garden has a pest - a kind of clearwing moth borer- whose larvae eat the squash plants from the inside-out. And sometimes from the outside-in.

One book I read told me to start my plants indoors in the late winter, suggesting that perhaps I could grow them past the 'vulnerable' stage. As I recall, however, the little buggers didn't seems to care what stage my squash plant was at - they killed already fruiting plants as well as young plants.

Does anyone have any suggestions for dealing with this pest? I've tried tying plastic around the base, spraying with capsaicin, etc. Nothing has worked.

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CONNOISSEUR, n. A specialist who knows everything about something and nothing about anything else.
-Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary

www.cakeandcommerce.com

What you have is squash vine borer, the reason why the patty pan paddock is at David's and not my garden...they are vicious little caterpillars that eat the stems from the inside and often infect them with fungal diseases to boot. Most of the organic controls are a pain in the @$#, one includes actually injecting the affected stems (they leave a gooey spot at the entrance point) with nematodes, another is using tight row covers so the moths can't land on the plants to lay eggs. One suggestion I use for everything else, but didn't try with the squash, is mulching with newspaper, as the caterpillar sometimes is in the soil.

If nematodes help, rather than using the highly-touted snake oil ones from an organic catalogue, you might try making and using compost tea: manure and compost mixed in lots of water and left to sit outside for a couple days (some people add an aquarium stone and aerate it to increase nematode growth) Put in a hand sprayer and spray liberally on everything. Worm poop is supposed to be especially effective source.

Somehow, though I've given up on cucurbits in general except the occasional cucumber, my neighbor's patch less than a foot from mine doesn't have this problem. She does two things different from me: uses horse manure collected directly from a stable, rather than bagged, and uses different species of zucchini (sorry, don't know which.)

I feel your pain. Nothing like having a 6 foot tall plant wither and die before your very eyes.

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No guts, no glory.
http://www.chicagonow.com/quips-travails-braised-oxtails
http://quipstravailsandbraisedoxtails.blogspot.com/

wow...that's more info than I've been able to find in the 1.5 years I've been trying to track down a remedy. Since I have a ton of time this weekend to work on the garden, perhaps I'll try whipping up some of my own nematode tea.

Thank you so much...we shall see if it works this year. I've placed the squash in different parts of the garden (30 feet apart) to see if it will make a difference.

_________________
CONNOISSEUR, n. A specialist who knows everything about something and nothing about anything else.
-Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary

www.cakeandcommerce.com

I read a lot...but I still have no squash Good Luck!

Just finished putting the last plants in mine; Tomatoes, basil, flowers, sunflowers, shallots, garlic, cucumbers, filet beans, peas, beets, carrots, celery and radishes...and a pie pumkin plant that I don't have high hopes for.

_________________
No guts, no glory.
http://www.chicagonow.com/quips-travails-braised-oxtails
http://quipstravailsandbraisedoxtails.blogspot.com/

Last year, even though the borers made quick work of assorted squash plants, somehow melons managed to do fine.

Good luck on your garden! I planted most of mine about 3 weeks ago...and the arugula is taking over everything. That's the last time I use arugula as ground cover....

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CONNOISSEUR, n. A specialist who knows everything about something and nothing about anything else.
-Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary

www.cakeandcommerce.com

Hi,

Back to the squash varmits. It helps to control disease and pest issues by rotating the locations of your plants.

It is no mistake why farmers alternately plant soy and corn in the same fields. It is to outrun the pests. The habit of one of these known pests changed their habit downstate. I can't recall the exact facts. Roughly a known pest overwintered and efficiently attacked the crop they were not supposed to eat. While it was an isolated event, they were (and maybe still are) concerned this could become more generalized.

Regards,

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Cathy2

"You'll be remembered long after you're dead if you make good gravy, mashed potatoes and biscuits." -- Nathalie Dupree
Facebook, Twitter, Greater Midwest Foodways, Road Food 2012: Podcast

I have come to look forward to the minutes every day I can spend in the garden. Clearing, weeding, planting, watering, it doesn't matter. There is something very calming about working the soil, even if just for relatively frivolous items like microgreens and purple carrots. If I don't do it, I miss it. It's good to connect.

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“We all have to stand before the kitchen gods.” Chef Jacob Sahaya Kumar Aruni

Hi all,

If you're like me and want a rain barrel but don't live in the city, then come to the North Riverside Farmers Market on Saturdays from 8am to 1pm. I think the address is 2401 S. DesPlaines--same as the Recreation Department.

They cost just $75 and I think the seller will be adding more items like canvas shopping bags, natural mosquito spray, and other goodies for farmers market shoppers and gardeners.

I live close to the area, so feel free to email me with questions.