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Am I crazy? Grilled Onions and the Chicago Style Dog

Am I crazy? Grilled Onions and the Chicago Style Dog
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  • Am I crazy? Grilled Onions and the Chicago Style Dog

    Post #1 - November 7th, 2007, 4:16 pm
    Post #1 - November 7th, 2007, 4:16 pm Post #1 - November 7th, 2007, 4:16 pm
    I like Hot Dougs a lot. Forty pounds ago and with a lot less coronary artery disease I used to frequent Dougs. Now Im trying to eat a healthier diet so I dont get there as often as I'd like. A craving for a good old fashion dog had me return to Dougs this week for lunch after at least 10 mos absence. I ordered a dog with all the trimmings expecting the "classic" chicago dog experience. mustard, raw onion, sweet pickle relish, a pickle spear, tomato slices, sport peppers, and a dash of celery salt. In return I received all of the above with grilled onions instead of chopped raw. It got me thinking. What place do grilled onions have on a "chicago style" hot dog?

    I am by no means an expert on what constitutes Chicago Style...but I have eaten a lot of hot dogs in and around chicago and the suburbs and have a decent idea that when i order a dog with everything and do not specify grilled onions 99 times out of 100 I will get raw. Am I crazy? I think Doug even calls his set up with grilled onions chicago style.

    Needless to say, I started thinking about all of the great Hot Dogs I've ordered and how they were dressed so i made a few phone calls. I realize that this survey does not exactly withstand the scientific method statistically but Poochies on Dempster in Skokie says everything Chicago Style means raw not grilled. Mustard's Last Stand on Central in Evanston...again raw not grilled. Michael's in Highland Park....also Raw. Superdawg....Raw. Doug's seems to be the only place I can think of that has grilled onions as part of the regular set up.

    I mentioned this to a co-worker who reminded me that Mike Royko wrote an excellent article before his death about what constitutes a "chicago" style hot dog in his guise as grand protector of all things chicago. I found it online www.chicagohamburger.com/html/royko7.htm (reprinted with his estates permission apparently.) Royko mentions chopped onions which I assume means raw. Wikipedia's definition also mentions onion but doesnt specify chopped raw or grilled (they also have a picture of a bunny hutch hot dog so rely on wikipedia as a source at your own discretion)

    Anyway, since I personally dont like grilled onions on my dog I didnt really care for the version i recieved on my return to dougs. shame on me for not specifying raw onions. He does list grilled as part of the set up right there in black and white on his menu board. I guess I never really thought about it before because ive never had to. BTW the corned beef dog with grilled "innards" (as doug refers to the grilled liver) was phenomenal.

    Anyone else have any thoughts on this topic. Or has this been discussed to death and I just simply cant find it using search?
    Last edited by iblock9 on November 8th, 2007, 4:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
  • Post #2 - November 7th, 2007, 4:20 pm
    Post #2 - November 7th, 2007, 4:20 pm Post #2 - November 7th, 2007, 4:20 pm
    You might be interested in this currently raging, er, debate:

    http://www.lthforum.com/bb/viewtopic.ph ... 3&start=30
  • Post #3 - November 7th, 2007, 4:23 pm
    Post #3 - November 7th, 2007, 4:23 pm Post #3 - November 7th, 2007, 4:23 pm
    yikes, i guess i should have read that thread....after all it is the one right below my own....oops
  • Post #4 - November 7th, 2007, 4:24 pm
    Post #4 - November 7th, 2007, 4:24 pm Post #4 - November 7th, 2007, 4:24 pm
    I always thought "maxwell street" meant with grilled onions, but otherwise the default is raw.
  • Post #5 - November 7th, 2007, 4:26 pm
    Post #5 - November 7th, 2007, 4:26 pm Post #5 - November 7th, 2007, 4:26 pm
    in my humble opinion grilled onions have no place on a Chicago Style dog.

    But then again I am a hot dog traditionalist, and do not care for Hot Doug's hot dog concoctions & variations at all.

    Just my humble opinion.
  • Post #6 - November 7th, 2007, 5:29 pm
    Post #6 - November 7th, 2007, 5:29 pm Post #6 - November 7th, 2007, 5:29 pm
    of all the things that i frequent Hot Dougs for - and it's at least once a week or so - i think i've gotten a hot dog there once.

    grilled onions have no place on a "hot dog salad" (thanks Cogito) in my opinion.

    Hot Dougs is definitely the place to go for your specialty sausages - the taste combos Doug comes up with, the wonderful and unusual condiments, and the exotic meats - and even the corn dog.

    ....but not the hot dog. It's not your fault that they ended up there, even if it is listed on the menu. A chicago dog should not have grilled onion on it - as it shouldn't have ketchup on it. You don't order your dog and specify that you don't want ketchup, right?
  • Post #7 - November 7th, 2007, 5:41 pm
    Post #7 - November 7th, 2007, 5:41 pm Post #7 - November 7th, 2007, 5:41 pm
    Grilled onions on a polish = yes
    Grilled onions on a hot dog - no (although I've seen it done with a char dog)
    Steve Z.

    “Only the pure in heart can make a good soup.”
    ― Ludwig van Beethoven
  • Post #8 - November 7th, 2007, 5:52 pm
    Post #8 - November 7th, 2007, 5:52 pm Post #8 - November 7th, 2007, 5:52 pm
    You have to keep in mind that much of the reason Doug opened Hot Doug's is because he couldn't find a char-dog that met his ideal. So he opened up his own place, and I think the reason you got grilled onions is because that's how he likes them.

    Specify raw next time.
    Ed Fisher
    my chicago food photos

    RIP LTH.
  • Post #9 - November 7th, 2007, 10:35 pm
    Post #9 - November 7th, 2007, 10:35 pm Post #9 - November 7th, 2007, 10:35 pm
    iblock9 wrote:Mike Royko wrote an excellent article before his death


    I understand Royko's talents diminished significantly thereafter. :P
    JiLS
  • Post #10 - November 8th, 2007, 8:30 am
    Post #10 - November 8th, 2007, 8:30 am Post #10 - November 8th, 2007, 8:30 am
    Wiener Circle offers "grilled or raw", at least for the char dog. I made the mistake of not being clear about my intentions last week (something that happens to me all too frequently nowadays late at night at Wiener Circle), and got the former. As I walked away eating the dog, I kept on wondering "What's wrong here?"
    "The fork with two prongs is in use in northern Europe. In England, they’re armed with a steel trident, a fork with three prongs. In France we have a fork with four prongs; it’s the height of civilization." Eugene Briffault (1846)
  • Post #11 - November 8th, 2007, 9:10 am
    Post #11 - November 8th, 2007, 9:10 am Post #11 - November 8th, 2007, 9:10 am
    All,

    This is a great topic - nothing is as sacred as our namesake dog.

    I guess the operative question for our OP, as eluded to by some repliers, is whether the dog you ordered at HD's was charred or not? I really think that is the main issue.

    While serving a boiled/steamed/"regularly cooked" Chicago Style Dog with grilled onions is certainly not the norm, I don't find it near the crime of putting Ketchup on a dog. And, while were on that subject, as a large part of my makeup is Liberterian (sp? - too lazy too look it up to be sure) I don't really find it that big of a deal if a patron wants to put Ketchup on their dog. But you better not go and call that dog Chicago Style.

    I don't fall into the camp that believes putting grilled, in lieu of raw, onions on a dog is significantly alternative enough to make the dog non-Chicago Style.

    But I will tell you this, if indeed the subject dog of this post was a CHAR Dog, then I think it the "norm" for those dogs is (or should be at least) to have grilled, rather then raw, onion. It is my belief, and I am not unique is this regard, that a CHAR dog is much better (and more "traditional") with grilled onions and should come with same unless raw is specified.

    Bster
  • Post #12 - November 8th, 2007, 9:29 am
    Post #12 - November 8th, 2007, 9:29 am Post #12 - November 8th, 2007, 9:29 am
    Bster wrote:I don't find it near the crime of putting Ketchup on a dog.


    I agree that the Chicago dog traditionally has raw onions. But I love the grilled onions on Hot Doug's dogs, they're fabulous.

    What is the beef exactly (yes, pun intended) with putting ketchup on dogs? My favorite dog is all-beef with ketchup, mustard, neon green relish, raw onion, halved tomato slices on a poppyseed bun with a pickle on the side, a pickly pickle, not one of those cucumbery ones. Hot Dougs' are extra-special so grilled onions are A-OK.

    Whenever I put ketchup on a dog, my father and boyfriend just shake their heads and sigh.
    I want to have a good body, but not as much as I want dessert. ~ Jason Love

    There is no pie in Nighthawks, which is why it's such a desolate image. ~ Happy Stomach

    I write stuff.
  • Post #13 - November 8th, 2007, 9:58 am
    Post #13 - November 8th, 2007, 9:58 am Post #13 - November 8th, 2007, 9:58 am
    Pie Lady wrote:Whenever I put ketchup on a dog, my father and boyfriend just shake their heads and sigh.


    Sigh. For me, someone who eats ketchup only on fries, the corn syrupy-sweetness of ketchup just clashes with the taste of the dog, IMHO. Biting into a hot dog that has ketchup is the culinary equivalent of a cold drink of water. Shocking.
  • Post #14 - November 8th, 2007, 10:28 am
    Post #14 - November 8th, 2007, 10:28 am Post #14 - November 8th, 2007, 10:28 am
    PieLady wrote:Bster wrote:
    I don't find it near the crime of putting Ketchup on a dog.


    I agree that the Chicago dog traditionally has raw onions. But I love the grilled onions on Hot Doug's dogs, they're fabulous.

    What is the beef exactly (yes, pun intended) with putting ketchup on dogs? My favorite dog is all-beef with ketchup, mustard, neon green relish, raw onion, halved tomato slices on a poppyseed bun with a pickle on the side, a pickly pickle, not one of those cucumbery ones. Hot Dougs' are extra-special so grilled onions are A-OK.

    Whenever I put ketchup on a dog, my father and boyfriend just shake their heads and sigh.


    I don't mean to be picky, but my quote regarding Ketchup was taken entirely out of context. If you re-read my entire reply above, which is overall pretty short, you'll note that I stated that I have no problem with eaters ploping Ketchup on their dogs but then the dog simply is not a Chicago Style Dog. The crime is putting Ketchup on the dog and still thinking or actually calling the dog a Chicago Style Dog. IMHO.

    I also favored grilled onions with CHAR dogs.

    Just wanted to correct the record, I tend to get my undies in a bunch whenever I am grossly misquoted or completey taken out of context :lol: :twisted: :roll: :wink: :D 8)

    No hard feelings. :lol: :P

    Bster
  • Post #15 - November 8th, 2007, 10:40 am
    Post #15 - November 8th, 2007, 10:40 am Post #15 - November 8th, 2007, 10:40 am
    Bster wrote:Just wanted to correct the record, I tend to get my undies in a bunch whenever I am grossly misquoted or completey taken out of context


    Yeah, I guess shouldn't have used your post, but it was a great line about it being a crime since that's the response I usually get. Sorry to use it out of context, that's not what was intended. As for the char dog issue, I said nothing against it. I don't like grilled dogs so I wouldn't know how great grilled onions are on them. The original message was that Hot Doug's put them on a supposed Chicago Dog, which I agree is unusual, but a tasty variation nonetheless.
    I want to have a good body, but not as much as I want dessert. ~ Jason Love

    There is no pie in Nighthawks, which is why it's such a desolate image. ~ Happy Stomach

    I write stuff.
  • Post #16 - November 8th, 2007, 10:41 am
    Post #16 - November 8th, 2007, 10:41 am Post #16 - November 8th, 2007, 10:41 am
    I think certain flavors enhance the hotdog experience, while other clash with it. I don't like the taste of ketchup, tomatoes, green pepper, cucumbers, or lettuce on a hotdog. I do like the taste of sauerkraut, though I don't consider that a usual Chicago topping. I prefer my onion finely minced ala Wolfy's, not the huge chunks like Jimmy uses. But that's a minor detail.
    What if the Hokey Pokey really IS what it's all about?
  • Post #17 - November 8th, 2007, 10:44 am
    Post #17 - November 8th, 2007, 10:44 am Post #17 - November 8th, 2007, 10:44 am
    aschie30 wrote:
    Pie Lady wrote:Whenever I put ketchup on a dog, my father and boyfriend just shake their heads and sigh.


    Sigh. For me, someone who eats ketchup only on fries, the corn syrupy-sweetness of ketchup just clashes with the taste of the dog, IMHO. Biting into a hot dog that has ketchup is the culinary equivalent of a cold drink of water. Shocking.
    Anemic tomatoes and relish
    are the real crimes!
    Mostly the relish.
    (insert gagging/vomiting emoticon here)
  • Post #18 - November 8th, 2007, 10:55 am
    Post #18 - November 8th, 2007, 10:55 am Post #18 - November 8th, 2007, 10:55 am
    Cogito wrote:I think certain flavors enhance the hotdog experience, while other clash with it. I don't like the taste of ketchup, tomatoes, green pepper, cucumbers, or lettuce on a hotdog. I do like the taste of sauerkraut, though I don't consider that a usual Chicago topping. I prefer my onion finely minced ala Wolfy's, not the huge chunks like Jimmy uses. But that's a minor detail.


    the now closed hot dog island made a delicious chicago dog and they gave you the option of adding kraut... to me it was delicious with the other ingredients
  • Post #19 - November 8th, 2007, 10:59 am
    Post #19 - November 8th, 2007, 10:59 am Post #19 - November 8th, 2007, 10:59 am
    [/quote]Anemic tomatoes and relish
    are the real crimes!
    Mostly the relish.
    (insert gagging/vomiting emoticon here)[/quote]

    I think this one will do, it can have a dual purpose:
    :P
    I want to have a good body, but not as much as I want dessert. ~ Jason Love

    There is no pie in Nighthawks, which is why it's such a desolate image. ~ Happy Stomach

    I write stuff.
  • Post #20 - November 8th, 2007, 11:10 am
    Post #20 - November 8th, 2007, 11:10 am Post #20 - November 8th, 2007, 11:10 am
    In my 2.5 years, I can only recall one customer that gets grilled onions on his dogs but grilled onions only. Also, only customer that wants his dogs deep fried as well.
  • Post #21 - November 8th, 2007, 11:24 am
    Post #21 - November 8th, 2007, 11:24 am Post #21 - November 8th, 2007, 11:24 am
    What is the beef exactly (yes, pun intended) with putting ketchup on dogs?


    There's nothing inherently wrong/immoral/criminal about putting catsup on a dog (and many different people from many different places put many different things on dogs) just as there is nothing inherently wrong/immoral/criminal with being a NY Yankees fan. It's just that much of the local citizenry perceive it that way. Call it a religious/cultural thing, but as anybody who has read Leviticus or Levi-Strauss can tell you, the boundaries between religion, culture, and gastronomy can be porous ones.
    "The fork with two prongs is in use in northern Europe. In England, they’re armed with a steel trident, a fork with three prongs. In France we have a fork with four prongs; it’s the height of civilization." Eugene Briffault (1846)
  • Post #22 - November 8th, 2007, 11:28 am
    Post #22 - November 8th, 2007, 11:28 am Post #22 - November 8th, 2007, 11:28 am
    jbw wrote:just as there is nothing inherently wrong/immoral/criminal with being a NY Yankees fan.


    There's not?! :!: :?:
  • Post #23 - November 8th, 2007, 12:34 pm
    Post #23 - November 8th, 2007, 12:34 pm Post #23 - November 8th, 2007, 12:34 pm
    aschie30 wrote:
    jbw wrote:just as there is nothing inherently wrong/immoral/criminal with being a NY Yankees fan.


    There's not?! :!: :?:


    no, there is. Don't be alarmed, i think he may have been misinformed ;)
  • Post #24 - November 8th, 2007, 12:36 pm
    Post #24 - November 8th, 2007, 12:36 pm Post #24 - November 8th, 2007, 12:36 pm
    jbw wrote:
    What is the beef exactly (yes, pun intended) with putting ketchup on dogs?


    There's nothing inherently wrong/immoral/criminal about putting catsup on a dog


    It's in Leviticus. Right after the commandment to eat Chinese food on Christmas.
    Lacking fins or tail
    The Gefilte fish
    swims with great difficulty.

    Jewish haiku.
  • Post #25 - November 8th, 2007, 12:38 pm
    Post #25 - November 8th, 2007, 12:38 pm Post #25 - November 8th, 2007, 12:38 pm
    heh, what Torah are you reading kuhdo??? :)
  • Post #26 - November 8th, 2007, 12:51 pm
    Post #26 - November 8th, 2007, 12:51 pm Post #26 - November 8th, 2007, 12:51 pm
    Pie Lady wrote:Yeah, I guess shouldn't have used your post, but it was a great line about it being a crime since that's the response I usually get.


    Simple answer: it's tradition and we Chicagoans can be a stubbornly bunch when it comes to food tradition. It think that would be the same in any place proud of their local food traditions. And the response you get is just somebody trying to bust your chops. I don't think anyone really cares what you put on your hot dog. Add to that the fact that ketchup has a slightly "childish" reputation (right or wrong) and that, personally, I think the sweetness of ketchup clashes horribly with sausages in general, and there's the rest of my take.

    Then again, I've seen Germans put ketchup on their bratwurst (and a ketchup base is what Berlin's currywurst is smothered in), so what do I knkow?
  • Post #27 - November 8th, 2007, 2:12 pm
    Post #27 - November 8th, 2007, 2:12 pm Post #27 - November 8th, 2007, 2:12 pm
    Bster wrote:I guess the operative question for our OP, as eluded to by some repliers, is whether the dog you ordered at HD's was charred or not? I really think that is the main issue.


    I did not order a char dog
  • Post #28 - November 8th, 2007, 2:19 pm
    Post #28 - November 8th, 2007, 2:19 pm Post #28 - November 8th, 2007, 2:19 pm
    jbw wrote:
    What is the beef exactly (yes, pun intended) with putting ketchup on dogs?


    There's nothing inherently wrong/immoral/criminal about putting catsup on a dog

    I think spelling ketchup as "catsup"
    is a much greater and ridicule-
    worthy offense.
    :lol:
  • Post #29 - November 8th, 2007, 2:30 pm
    Post #29 - November 8th, 2007, 2:30 pm Post #29 - November 8th, 2007, 2:30 pm
    I couldn't find the Royko article with the link, so I dropped the last l and found it at: http://www.chicagohamburger.com/html/royko7.htm

    Royko, it seems is a little confused about it too, because he never mentions that jalapeños aren't correct either.

    An excerpt "...No, I won't condemn anyone for putting ketchup on a hot dog. This is the land of the free. And if someone wants to put ketchup on a hot dog and actually eat the awful thing, that is their right.

    It is also their right to put mayo or chocolate syrup or toenail clippings or cat hair on a hot dog.

    Sure, it would be disgusting and perverted, and they would be shaming themselves and their loved ones. But under our system of government, it is their right to be barbarians."
    "Good stuff, Maynard." Dobie Gillis
  • Post #30 - November 8th, 2007, 2:56 pm
    Post #30 - November 8th, 2007, 2:56 pm Post #30 - November 8th, 2007, 2:56 pm
    Binko wrote:Then again, I've seen Germans put ketchup on their bratwurst (and a ketchup base is what Berlin's currywurst is smothered in), so what do I knkow?


    There used to be a jarred brat sauce sold in this area years ago which seemed to be a combination of ketchup and mustard. We thought it was pretty good on a brat.
    "Good stuff, Maynard." Dobie Gillis

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