LTHForum.com

Knees are a delicate thing. You may want to do some cardio exercises in the pool to give your knees a break, which is what I do. When Oprah was at her heaviest, she began all that vigorous running with her personal trainer. I've read somewhere her knees are now a problem. My knees are not a problem and I want to keep it that way.

I've belonged to TOPS on and off. They have a program called the Exchange Diet, which appears modelled after the diabetic diet. While TOPS is mostly populated by women, they do have a male chapter in the local area, which you may want to consider visiting:

Rush North Medical Center (TOPS #IL 0142)
9600 Gross Pt Rd
Skokie, IL 60076-1214
Sun: 7:30/9:00 AM (weigh-in/meeting times)

These are all guys in the same boat. TOPS also supports those who have had the surgery you are contemplating.

From those I've met who have had this surgery, you will be watching your diet for the rest of your life. The surgery is a tool though the self control comes from the organ above your shoulders. You can have the surgery and by crafty eating gain all back and more.

All the best,
CAthy

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Cathy2

"You'll be remembered long after you're dead if you make good gravy, mashed potatoes and biscuits." -- Nathalie Dupree
Facebook, Twitter, Greater Midwest Foodways, Road Food 2012: Podcast

I agreee, it sounds like you are making excellent progress.

Swimming is really great exercise and usually kind to your joints, but I suggest if you do it to get some training first, because it can do a number on your knees if you do it wrong. Water aerobics looks like fun too.

KMan's right - 2 pounds a week is recommended, but the more you have to lose, the more will come off once you adopt a healthier lifestyle. 5 pounds a week is GREAT. Keep it up!!!

And good for you for allowing yourself a "free" day! That makes it so much easier to make it through the other six.

_________________
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Speaking as someone "only" 50 pounds over my ideal weight, I thought I'd weigh in (pun semi-intended) on the sleep apnea aspect. I have it. Apparently one of the key signs is (for men, anyway) your neck size. If it's over 17 and your waist is 40 or over, you're a prime candidate.

I still remember the shock I had when I finally consented to a sleep study only to find out that I not only have apnea but I have a fairly severe case. Explains the tiredness and the snoring as well. For some, weight loss might be enough to eliminate it. For me the doc says: get used to sleeping with your mask because you'll be sleeping with it the rest of your life. Without the mask, I would occasionally stop breathing--for as long as 40 seconds at a time. As you can imagine, the consequences of not breathing for that long--not to mention the constant awakening (often for a fraction of a second at a time, so brief you don't even know it)--take an enormous toll on the body. It adds strain to your heart, raises your blood pressure, and even affects your memory.

The good news: although it's taken me a long time to get used to it, I now sleep with the CPAP face mask (Continuous Postive Airway Pressure) for at least 4-5 hours per night (I reward myself by taking it off if I've been good), it makes a demonstrable difference. You're not tired; your blood pressure drops without your having to "do" anything else; your memory improves. Besides, they're constantly developing new things that frankly give me great hope--and I'm a notorious pessimist.

Bottom line: I've been following your posts, Will, and I can't tell you how much I--and I'm sure so many others who haven't posted--are rooting for you. If you have any questions at all about the apnea aspect, feel free to write me. I'll be happy to share whatever information, names, etc., I can.

Meantime: the best of luck. Looking forward to hearing about your well-deserved celebration some day!

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Gypsy Boy

“How can a nation be called great if its bread tastes like kleenex?” (Julia Child)

Thanks, Gypsy Boy. As expected, i was diagnosed with full blown severe apnea. They put the mask on me about 1 am and i got four hours of the most glorious sleep that I have had in years. Today at work, I noticed how incredibly alert that I was as well as the fact that my memory seemed much sharper than it has been in the past few months.

My CPAP machine is on the way. Hopefully, I will have it before the end of the week.

I'm starting to get used to the reduction in food. Today, i ate two scrambled eggs, two pieces of turkey bacon for breakfast, a grilled chicken sandwich at lunch and a South Beach sandwich for dinner (4 oz of low sodium roast beef wrapped in lettuce with a little chipotle mayo. Only two protein drinks today. They really suck.

I've had sleep apnea for about 3 years. I can't/won't even take a nap without my machine anymore because of the benefits. I even bought a DC adaptar to use when my wife drives during long trips. I hope you are getting a humidifier with it. Here's a great resource for Sleep Apnea info
.

Will,
I know you travel a lot for work. A couple of suggestions for traveling:

CPAP is an additionaly carry-on without any penalty

Carry a 6 foot extension cord with you in case you need it. (You will)

Get yourself a good pint or quart bottle to carry enough distilled water to use for a night or two. Trying to find distilled water at your destination is a hassle. A quart should last you several days to get you by.

I start with my personal trainer in about 2 hours. Time to pop some ibuprofen as a preventative for the upcoming aches and pains.

_________________
Bruce
Plenipotentiary
bruce@bdbbq.com

Raw meat should NOT have an ingredients list!!

Will, I'm sure you've seen this/or someone's mentioned it, but just in case:

This month's Consumer Report's has an article on gastric by-pass surgery. I have no idea if it's a good idea, just know it's there.

Rob

_________________
Think Yiddish, Dress British - Advice of Evil Ronnie to me.

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Time to start seeing the shrinks. They start by giving you some positive reinforcement.

What would you sacrifice to weigh 100 lbs less one year from now? Well, that's only 2 lbs per week with 2 weeks off for the holidays. Just a little easier said than done.

Good job.

_________________
Unchain your lunch money!

I got to agree with pd. I think 10 pounds in three weeks is pretty good. Of course, it gets harder to shed those last few, but I would say you're off to a heckuva start. And in my professional opinion, speaking as a former fan of Marcus Welby, MD, I would say that losing more than 10 in that amount of time might not be healthy.

Me, I'm down 1.5 pounds since the beginning of the month.

Hammond

_________________
“We all have to stand before the kitchen gods.” Chef Jacob Sahaya Kumar Aruni

A couple of years ago, I was encouraged by my doctors to have gastric bypass surgery, as I, too, am obese. This is when the surgery was first coming into popularity and before much was known about it. I have a number of serious health problems that seem tied to my weight problem (e.g, I'm on supplemental oxygen), so this seemed like the logical next step for me. (I have high blood pressure (which has affected my heart), high cholesterol, type II diabetes, sleep apnea, and asthma, and I have to take a handful of medicine each day.)

But once I started researching, I decided against gastric bypass surgery for me. This is not to say that you or others would not greatly benefit from the surgery. I just felt this wasn't the right option for me, which was fortunate as it turned out I have some digestive problems which might have been compounded by the surgery.

But what I learned during my research phase was that if you decide to go ahead with it, have it done at a large teaching hospital, like the University of Chicago, or Northwestern, or some place like that where they do thousands of these surgeries, and not at a small center in the 'burbs somewhere. Also, ask for information on the hospital's statistics for this surgery (mortality rates, post-op complication rates, etc.). Learn as much as you can, for your own safety.

You should also know that having the surgery will not automatically solve your weight problem. It will give you a "window of opportunity"--about 18 months--in which you can lose a great deal of weight, but "only if you continue to diet and exercise." That was the part that got me. "ONLY IF YOU CONTINUE TO DIET AND EXERCISE." Get it? Those two things are the only things that will actually make anyone lose weight. If you were to continue to eat the way you did pre-surgery, within time your stomach would stretch out to its prior size and you would be back where you started. When I learned that, I knew that the surgery wasn't for me. I would have to do this on my own. (Easier said than done.)

From all that I have read on the subject, I have come to realize that obesity is a much more complex issue than simply cutting calories and exercising more. Our bodies are incredible machines governed by unknown numbers of hormones and chemicals which regulate our weight. Scientists are making amazing inroads into this area right now, and perhaps soon we will have some real help in our battle with our weight problems. But, meanwhile, one book I have recently found that I benefitted greatly from reading is, "You: The Owner's Manual," by Drs. Mehmet Oz, & Michael Roizen. There's lots of great information in there about diet and exercise. I highly recommend it. (Their insights on pooping are hilarious!)

One last thing. Sometimes, as I read the posts on this forum, I gasp at some of the food choices people make (myself included). We're all food junkies, that's clear. And I'm just as guilty as anyone of lusting for things that aren't good for me. But eating that way day after day is what got us into trouble in the first place. We have to find some balance between eating healthy and that occasional treat. Obesity is killing us, just like smoking and stress. I guess I just wanted to say that.

HI,

I don't know if I really believe this or if this is a hoax. Still it is entertaining to see a320 pound woman looking absolutely terrific on a 7 foot 4 inch frame.

The problem isn't really our weight, it is our height!

Regards,

_________________
Cathy2

"You'll be remembered long after you're dead if you make good gravy, mashed potatoes and biscuits." -- Nathalie Dupree
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I'm going to weigh in here, having both personal experience and professional expertise on the matter--trained chef, former restauranteur, engineer, obsessive chow dog.

I'm 6'3", 235 pounds, body mass index for the first time in years less than clinically obese. I ain't yet skinny and likely never will be--but I'm holding my own as over a period of two years recently, I lost 60 pounds and have kept it off.

It was imperative to me that during that time and since that I continue to eat well. Its my essential nature. And I have, albeit a little differently than before.

Before You Start, Some Wisdom.
Probably the most important insight that I can share is that there are an infinite number of ways to lose weight. No one way is the magic path. What you have to do is find the way that works for you. If you are already taking diabetes medicines, your task has become that much more complex.

A little more wisdom: when it comes to weight and stature in general, there are only two kinds of people, differentiated by how we eat when undergoing stress. Those of us who reach for food when stressed are the fatties, while the second group, they get stressed, they don't eat for days.

Whichever you are, you already know. Me, I've taken to having some mint tea after dinner instead of a box of cookies. Diet cookies? Forget about it, tastes like *hit.

Preacher, Please, Let Me Now Testify.
I woke up one day, couldn't hardly fit in my clothes, found that I was tipping the scale at 295. It was either lose weight or buy more clothes.

First thing I did was eliminate desserts. No more cake/cookies/candy/ice cream. That helped. I lost a few pounds.

Then I got to thinking. Thinking about the fact that as far as our metabolism is concerned, our bodies quickly convert refined starches to sugar automatically. So in effect, eating refined starches such as bread, pasta, beer and so forth is for all intensive purposes the same as eating cookies and candy. Bing. No more refined starches.

To substitute the bulk that was missing, I ate pretty much any quantity I felt like of grilled meats and a ton of vegetables. Cabbage and leeks. Kabocha squash, tomatoes and pasilla chiles. Steamed broccoli. Roasted squash. Roasted sweet potatoes. Turnip greens, collards and kale. Fresh black eyed peas cooked with chicken stock and onion and a little garlic.

Bear in mind my (OUR, kimosabee--and LTH brethren)nature. I'm a chow dog, I MUST eat, and eat I did.

Over a period of two months, still, I lost about 20 pounds. Not bad, but I then hit a plateau.

During that time I woke up one day thinking some more about sugar. The ten watt bulb went on.

I googled 'glycemic index'. Found a wealth of info. Found that foods like stone fruit, potatoes, carrots, beets were high on the glycemic index. Doh. Why didn't I think of that? If you can make vodka and eau de vie from it, its got to have serious sugar. So eliminated all those foods. Still could eat unlimited watermelon--so for a month or so in the summer at the peak of the season, boy do I eat watermelon.

Lost another ten pounds, thirty pounds after five months. Down to 265. Hit another plateau.

Sometime in and around there I came across info about how we process complex (i.e. unrefined) carbohydrates differently from refined carbohydrates. As a result, switched breakfast from my lifelong bagel to steel cut oats (cook 'em like a grain) with dried wild dried blueberries (the dried cultivated kind were too sweet). Found that with this foundation, I could skip lunch.

Continued to lose about a pound to a pound and a half a week. Held level during the Thanksgiving/Xmas holidays (a serous victory), and while traveling. Never ate sandwiches at lunch, only salads if it was a biz type thing. After six months I had lost about 45 pounds, down to to 250.

But no more rice or noodles at Chinese restaurants. Ups the check some, but hey, I'm still eating very well thank you. Explains why I favor TAC on my Chicago visits--lots of flavor, low to moderate (not no) carbs.

In summary: its still working. I'm holding my own. I still eat very well indeed. Once every three months or so I make some pasta when we entertain, in 1-/1/2 to 2 ounce dry appetizer sized portions. Sure, I miss eating mass quantities of pasta, but I don't miss it that much.

We had fifteen folks at Thanksgiving this year. Since most were from out of town, I fed them Wed and Fri too. Wed night was Ragu Bolognese. Easy, easy to adust timing for airport arrivals. 'Poop and Scoop' is what we used to call it in the restaurant days. Salad. Broccoli. I grilled a couple of whole chickens splayed flat too, ate a bare spoonful of pasta and lots of chicken.

Falling Off The Wagon, Occasionally.
And I'm still first in line for a dim sum dumpling or two at a Chinese restaurant, just not mass quantities. I ask to substitute tofu for noodles in say a dish like Shehilon with Shredded Pork Noodle, or Beef Stew Noodle. Salt and pepper squid or calamari--Hey, bring it on. Likewise Peruvian Rotisserie Chicken, but not the french fries with hot dogs.

Must admit, if there is something REALLY good, like french fries cooked in duck or goose fat, or Jacques Torres chocolates or Katz' pastrami, I'll eat my share. But then I am sure to balance it out later.

Tacos are good too, as a sometime treat during severe weight loss, then a little more often once stable--they feature a controlled quantity of carbs which is a good thing.

Keeping In the Flavor.
Buy 15 lb fresh free range turkeys (I've found the 'Murray's brand to be pretty good). Quarter them. Make stock from the backbone and neck and wing tips. Freeze the quarters. Stuff garlic cloves, thin sliced lime and fresh thyme/rosemary/greek oregano under the skin (breast or thigh/leg), salt well and cook over indirect heat at about 325-350 on a covered grill, using a thermometer to pull at 160, then let rest 15 min before slicing.

Or Rapini and Beans. Broccoli rabe, sausage, cannelini beans with garlic, red pepper (omit the pasta, see?), sharp grated cheese at the end. Complex carbs. Think about it.

Please feel free to PM me. This is important stuff. But its potentially do-able.

_________________
Chicago is my spiritual chow home

"Probably the most important insight that I can share is that there are an infinite number of ways to lose weight. No one way is the magic path. What you have to do is find the way that works for you. "

Yes!

I lost 20 pounds a year or more ago and am fighting another 10. (Sounds like a small amount, but I'm small.) I have to fine-tune it all the time. I eventually had to cut out most cheese. A lot of people can lose weight while eating cheese frequently, but it's a problem food for me. And drinking a glass of wine or two at night may be fine for some people, but for me it's just another simple sugar and will eventually cause a spike in my appetite. On the other hand, I can have a bit of chocolate and then stop, and it cheers me up immensely. I actually have a computer file where I write down all these details.

Strangely, I am one of those people who stop eating under stress, but when the stress is gone the appetite comes back redoubled.

It's been 30 days since my initial consulatation at the Wish Center. Lots has happened since then.

I sleeping with a CPAP beginning today for my sleep apnea. The study shows that I "woke up" around 60 times and would quit breathing for 40 seconds at a time in the two hours before they put the CPAP on me. No wonder I'm so tired all of the time!!

I've lost 14 pounds since January 3. I'm starting to get used to my limited ability to eat what I want. Officially, I'm slightly less than morbidly obese as a result of the weight loss. Protein shakes are starting to taste good. I eatl lots of protein and take a multi vitamin every day. I'm probably ingesting somewhere around 80 to 100 grams of protein a day.

My blood pressure is still way too high, even on medication it's 150:95. It settles about 10 points overnight. I hope that the CPAP is going to help with that when I start sleeping with it on.

My triglycerides are back in normal range now. My blood sugar has fallen from the high normal range to the mid normal range. And my overall cholesterol has fallen to slightly over 200.

I feel a lot better. I'm exercising 45 minutes to an hour six times a week.

At the rate of 14 pounds per month, I'll need 10 months to lose my "extra" body. I want to go back to Brazil this coming fall.

I'd love to be able to fit *comfortably* in a coach seat versus being forced to buy business class for the extra room. I think that is going to be the goal that I set for myself.

As for the surgery, I'm holding out hope that my own efforts will keep me from it. But, if I have to do it, I'm going to have the gastric bypass versus the lap band.

It's an insurance thing. The bypass will cost me $2000.00 out of pocket, the lap band, $12,000.

Thanks again for all your supportive comments both by email and in person.

I"ve been working out with a personal trainer 3x a week for a half hour and walking a treadmill for 20 minutes. I'm improving slowly. I'm sticking to 10% above my calorie cap and hope to average out at the cap each week. I've only made this a commitment for about 2 weeks so i'm not seeking great strides yet.

The CPAP may take some getting used too, but once you do, it will make a world of difference. I won't/can't take a nap without mine.

_________________
Bruce
Plenipotentiary
bruce@bdbbq.com

Raw meat should NOT have an ingredients list!!

Let me begin by stating that besides being of substantial physical stature myself, I in fact hold multiple patents world wide (you could look it up); so from your mission statement above its clear that it would be in your best interest to conduct diligence prior to investing in my series of time travel pending patents...as that's the only way the new you or anyone else of average stature or greater will ever again 'fit comfortably' into a coach seat.

But being sized so as to able to buy clothes at any mall? A worthy goal indeed.

Atta boy for you both.

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Chicago is my spiritual chow home

Steve,

Seeing as I buy my clothes at 'specialty' shops and am uncomfortable in airline coach seats I appreciate if you'd contact me off list about your time travel pending patents.

Kudos to both Will and Bruce, you are good examples for all.

Enjoy,
Gary

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Sauce on the side, always, implied, axiomatic..........never a doubt, BBQ sauce without.

Low & Slow

I had promised myself that I wasn't going to make too many consecutive day posts out of concern for boring you folks to death. But, i have to tell you, after one night sleeping on the CPAP machine, i felt a lot like my old self today.

Over the course of the past year and a half or so, my energy level has been steadily decreasing and my weight steadily increasing. I ahd goten to the point that I was falling alseep in my office in the afternoons. I was becoming pretty useless at work.

The Sleep Study, I had performed cost me $200 out of pocket. The CPAP Machine itself cost me a grand total of $41 out of pocket. Granted, I'm blessed with very good health insurance.

The better news is that it will take me a little over a week to catch up on the sleep deprivation that has been causing me all of these problems. So, I'll be feeling even more enegetic soon.

I encourage you, if you snore and/or wake up tired, to have one of these sleep studies done.

Ditto. We don't all have insurance as good as Will's and, should it not be clear from his post, the sleep study (I've had two now) and the CPAP machine, are not remotely cheap. (My recollection is that the machine is over $1,000 and I honestly don't recall the sleep study, but it's a lot more.)

However, that said, I would encourage you to talk with your doctor about the possibility of sleep apnea and a sleep study if there's a reasonable chance that you have sleep apnea. Forget about the snoring waking your wife or husband (yes, women suffer too)--although the snoring was what drove me to the hospital--the astonishingly wide-ranging and varied ill effects of sleep apnea over time are enough to kill you. Literally. Many people battle sleep during the day; think about that before getting behind the wheel. It adds enormous strain to your heart. It increases the risk of heart disease and stroke. We've mentioned the memory problems. It also prompts weight gain. And I could go on and on. I was astonished and appalled when I started reading up on sleep apnea. And though it took me many months to get used to wearing the mask (there are actually several different versions), I have finally managed to get to the point where I wear it almost every night.

I can't echo Will's point too strongly. If you have even the least suspicion, talk with your doctor. Although it's not the single best site I've seen, the site for the American Sleep Apnea Association may well be worth your visit: http://www.sleepapnea.org/

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Gypsy Boy

“How can a nation be called great if its bread tastes like kleenex?” (Julia Child)

Good for both of you. I agree that sleep apnea can be a life threatening condition.

However, I think everyone is served better to research any medical condition through independant sources.

My personal belief is that sleep apnea is over-diagnosed...if only because I don't know of anyone that took a sleep study and was not diagnosed with sleep apnea or proscribed to buy an expensive machine to correct the condition.

When I am tired during the day, it is usually due to stress, lack of excersise and a heavy meal. A few trips to the gym and lighter lunch and I am back to being more alert.

Again, if you have concerns, see your doctor. Talk it over with someone with your interest at heart. The skeptic in me is concerned that in this information age groups like sleep apnea society or whatever else, can be hijacked by those with a greater interest in selling machines. National Institues of Health, Medline, NIHLB are good resources for balanced articles on health.

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/sleepapnea.html

_________________
Unchain your lunch money!

Here's a horror story (stop me if you've heard it before). My cousin is my exact age (born same day), my height (i.e., smaller Italian-type guy), but weighs about twice as much as I do. He was diagnosed with sleep apnea and his doctor convinced him to get a tracheotomy so he'd be able to breath at night, which he did. The result: he cannot go anywhere without oxygen, he's in a wheel chair, takes medication by the fistful (infections related to operation), and will probably never be able to actually exercise (or even walk a block) again.

This is an extreme case, but my cousin is not a fool (well, he's an attorney and, formerly, a judge), but when you're feeling vulnerable, you sometimes make bad decisions.

Hammond

_________________
“We all have to stand before the kitchen gods.” Chef Jacob Sahaya Kumar Aruni

I actually know two people who had sleep studies and were told that they did not have sleep apnea--one just last week. So it can happen. But let me add to the chorus of praise for the C-Pap, or in Bill's case, the BiPap Pro with BiFlex. When he was in the hospital for three months a few years ago, including a month at the Rehab Institute, one of his doctors told him that looking back he might decide that the sleep apnea diagnosis was the best thing that came out of the whole ordeal. She may have been right.

I had somehow convinced myself that although Bill snored a lot, he couldn't have sleep apnea because he also had lots of dreams. But the sleep technician explained that the dreams can be the result of the brain's attempt to make sense of the emergency created by the lack of oxygen That explained a lot, and in particular that so many of his dreams involved him in situations where he was being attacked or was attacking someone else (who several times turned out in real life to be me ). The difference is phenomenal. He sleeps solidly and quietly through the night. He stays awake during the day and on the road His circulation improved, etc etc.

Ridiculously expensive, as pdanne suggests. We had to do a rent-to-own on our machine, and our 20% percentage of the rental came out to more than the machine itself should cost. IIRC Blue Cross and we together paid something like $5000 for the machine. On the other hand, they've replaced it once at no charge and are good about coming out immediately if a mask or hose needs to be replaced. It's non-invasive, drug-free, and effective. That alone makes it better than, say, 80% of modern health care. I'm a believer.

I've stayed out of this but as we're now discussing CPAP failures:

I had a miserable time with the sleep test, because the air dried my sinuses out and shut everything up. I had a somewhat better time when they added a humidifier. Still, I didn't have an apniphany like so many folks breathing actual oxygen for the first time. And I could not help from tearing it off after a couple of hours each night.

Meanwhile-- since I had gone to an ENT guy in the first place about my recurrent strep throat-- they worked out this whole business where they used this wand with high frequency radio waves that zaps and sizzles tissue. (It looks and acts exactly like the Martian zapper in the '53 War of the Worlds.) So they basically roto-rooted my sinuses with that, zapped the areas where the strep was hiding from the antibiotics on my tonsils, trimmed down my uvula (hey, it was out of whack) and-- the best part-- hid two tiny titanium struts on either side of my nose, under my cheeks (I don't even know how they got in there-- and I don't want to know), which basically do what a Breathe-Right strip does, or the Verazzano bridge does for that matter. Making me part cyborg, by my calculation.

Voila-- significantly improved airflow, significantly reduced snoring, signficantly reduced apnea-type stuff. Which, as a sort of surgical solution that worked, makes Dave's cousin's story that much more tragic. Anyway, just pointing out that there are still other options (although mine required being diagnosed as a "CPAP failure"-- oh, the shame).

_________________
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Ummm, that is not what I suggested or said.

I believe the machines are worth every penny for those in need...your case in point. I am just concerned that some folks are being diagnosed with this condition who shouldn't be simply because either they or their insurance company can afford a machine.

As Warren Buffet likes to say: "Don't ask the barber if you need a haircut", implying that you need to seek opinions and advice of those whose judgement is not clouded by a profit motive.

_________________
Unchain your lunch money!

Here's a good resource for sleep apnea information.

I have good insurance and didn't have to spend much out of pocket for the study, nor my sleep apnea machine and supplies. Plus I flex the expenses. There are internet resources that provide much cheaper alternatives than home health care service stores. Ebay can also be an option. Quite a few people sell medical supplies on eBay, but it is buyer beware. A little research on sellers can help. Test strips for diabetes can be half the cost of drugstore prices.

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Bruce
Plenipotentiary
bruce@bdbbq.com

Raw meat should NOT have an ingredients list!!

Also a great example of an source policy to remain independent.

pd

_________________
Unchain your lunch money!

I keep up-to-date on health issues by researching Medline, NIH, Product websites, and I find Yahoo email lists have benefits. I usually don't stay subscribed for long, but I will check out 3-5 for a few weeks to find the gems of practical experience that can be so helpful.

_________________
Bruce
Plenipotentiary
bruce@bdbbq.com

Raw meat should NOT have an ingredients list!!

I didn't mean to open a can of worms on the issue of apnea. I can only share my experience with you. In the week or so that I have been on the CPAP, my sleep has been great. Prior to using the CPAP, I was listless, my memory was bad and i had little energy.

All that has changed in the first week that I have been using this machine. So, it has been a real benefit for me.

You should no that I had a sleep study three years ago that determined that I did not have apnea. I was treated at that time for acid reflux and found much better rest as a result.

However, in December, I was diagnosed as morbidly obese. And I personally believe, through educating myself via indepndent sources, that my weight was cauisng me both measurable (like high blood pressure) and immeasurable (like sleep apnea) health problems.

Itr seems that the price of a CPAP has come down dramatically in recent years. You can get a good unit with humidifier for well under $1000 these days with a prescription. Even if you don't have insurance.

www.cpap.com

I had been taking Beta blockers for about two months prior to control my very high blood pressure. The medication was only partially lowering my BP. It was still too high. In the five days that I've been on the CPAP with Beta Blockers, my BP has dropped to normal levels.

Like Mike, I find myself grasping at the mask during the night sometimes. Sometimes I rip it off. That discomfort is pretty minor in comparison to the sllep deprevation that I was experien cing as a result of my brain not getting enough oxygen during rest.

That's my experience. My body seems to be metabolizing better in the past week. I've dropped another three pounds since Friday.

I was first diagnosed with sleep apnea around 1991 and have been sleeping first with CPAP, and now with BiPAP, and it makes all the difference in the world. It took me a long time to get used to the mask too, but stick with it because the day will come that you won't want to take a nap without it. Depending on your condition, you may get away with just using the nasal pillows, which is minimal. It's a small price to pay for a good night's sleep.

Now if I didn't have to get up to pee!!!

HI,

My Mom has been on a CPAP for several years. She won't take a nap without it. When we travel it is the first thing out of the car and her sleeping place is decided by where the CPAP can be located. Sometimes when I was dead tired, I'd try to get her to forget about for the night because I really just wanted to sleep.

My wake up call on how much the CPAP affects her was a few months ago after open heart surgery. When she was moved from intensive care to a regular room, the staff did not set-up her CPAP machine. Mom slept without her CPAP machine for the first time in many years. While the day before I could see some cognitive improvement from the drugged up post surgical mist. The next day without the benefits of CPAP, she was cognitively out to lunch. The one step forward from the day before was now 10 steps backward cognitively. One nurse even pulled me aside to advise how some patients are adversely affected mentally from heart-lung machines. Implying Mom had pulled a statistical short straw from the otherwise positive affects of this type of surgery. I was there when Mom was prepped for sleep that night and made sure her CPAP device was attached. The next day with a full oxygenated rest, she was back in the saddle mentally again. Thank goodness.

From witnessing the affects on Mom from her CPAP machine, I fully believe the cognitive benefits Will has experienced since he began CPAP use. I'll never again fuss about that machine whenever we travel.

Regards,

_________________
Cathy2

"You'll be remembered long after you're dead if you make good gravy, mashed potatoes and biscuits." -- Nathalie Dupree
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