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  • Welcome, Reader readers!

    Post #1 - October 7th, 2004, 10:22 am
    Post #1 - October 7th, 2004, 10:22 am Post #1 - October 7th, 2004, 10:22 am
    Be sure and pick up a copy of the Chicago Reader this week, as there will be an article on us this week by Mike Sula, who knows this and other food boards well.

    If you're coming from this article, our site's pretty self-explanatory, so welcome to LTHForum and feel free to jump right in to the boards, or search for something specific.

    * * *

    Long story to explain even longer list: each week the Reader runs a selection of its capsule restaurant reviews on a theme, and as the article was going to press, the idea was floated that we might want to name some LTHForum favorites and that would be this week's theme. Officially we don't have a list of "best" restaurants (best lists are exclusive and we're inclusive, everyone's opinion is created equal here and what's great today could be second-rate tomorrow, etc.) But there are certainly some places that get talked about over and over, so we quickly threw together a list of many of those places (restricted, however, to places already in the Reader database, which meant mostly on the north side-- so no Vito & Nick's or Amanecer Tapatio in Joliet).

    But... as it turns out they aren't running our list, for whatever reason. Here's the list anyway, since a set of links to many of the most talked-about restaurants is also, by definition, a set of links to many of the most interesting threads so far on this site. Enjoy!

    * * *

    "Little" Three Happiness
    209 W. Cermak Rd., Chicago
    (312) 842-1964.

    Taqueria la Oaxaquena
    3382 N. Milwaukee Ave., Chicago
    (773) 545-8585.

    Spoon Thai
    4608 N. Western Ave., Chicago
    (773) 769-1173.

    Thai Avenue
    4949 N. Broadway, Chicago
    (773) 878-2222

    Happy Chef Dim Sum
    2164 S. Archer, Chicago
    (312) 808-3689

    La Unica Cafeteria
    1515 W. Devon Ave., Chicago
    (773) 274-7788.

    Cafe Central
    1437 W. Chicago Ave., Chicago
    (312) 243-6776.

    Marianao Food Mart (Cafeteria Marianao), also this
    2246 N. Milwaukee Ave., Chicago
    (773) 278-4533.

    Brasa Roja
    3125 W. Montrose, Chicago
    (773) 866-2252.

    The Penguin
    2723 W. Lawrence, Chicago
    (773) 271-492

    Katsu, also pics here
    2651 W. Peterson Ave., Chicago
    (773) 784-3383.

    Honey 1 Barbecue
    5135 W. Division St., Chicago
    (773) 626-5436

    Turquoise
    2147 W. Roscoe, Chicago
    (773) 549-3523.

    Hai Woon Dae
    6240 N. California Ave., Chicago
    (773) 764-8018

    Tank Noodle
    4953 N. Broadway St., Chicago
    (773) 878-2253

    Spring World
    2109A S. China Pl., Chicago
    (312) 326-9966.

    Sabatino's
    4441 W. Irving Park Rd., Chicago
    (773) 283-8331

    Ed's Potsticker House
    3139 S. Halsted St., Chicago
    (312) 326-6898

    Salam
    4636 N. Kedzie Ave., Chicago
    (773) 583-0776

    Lem's
    311 E. 75th St., Chicago
    (773) 994-2428

    Barbara Ann's BBQ
    7617 S. Cottage Grove Ave., Chicago
    (773) 723-4780

    Johnnie's Beef
    7500 W. North Ave., Elmwood Park
    (708) 452-6000

    Bruna's Ristorante
    2424 S. Oakley Ave., Chicago
    (773) 254-5550.

    Bari Foods
    1120 W. Grand Ave., Chicago
    (312) 666-0730

    Kababish
    939 N. Orleans St., Chicago
    (312) 642-8622

    Sabri Nehari
    2511 W. Devon Ave., Chicago
    (773) 743-6200

    Old Fashioned Donuts
    11248 S. Michigan Ave., Chicago
    (773) 995-7420.

    Santorini
    800 W. Adams St., Chicago
    (312) 829-8820

    Resi's Bierstube
    2034 W. Irving Park Rd., Chicago
    (773) 472-1749

    Paprikash
    5210 W. Diversey Ave., Chicago
    (773) 736-4949

    La Cazuela Mariscos
    6922 N. Clark St., Chicago
    (773) 338-5425.

    Kabul House
    1629 N. Halsted, Chicago
    (312) 751-1029

    Flower's Pot
    7328 N. Clark, Chicago
    (773) 761-4388

    Cafe Hoang
    1010 W. Argyle, Chicago
    (773) 878-9943

    Do Won
    5695 N. Lincoln Ave., Chicago
    (773) 878-5888

    Shan Restaurant & Grocers
    5060 N. Sheridan, Chicago
    (773) 769-4961.

    Lao Sze Chuan Restaurant
    2172 S. Archer Ave., Chicago
    (312) 326-5040.
    Last edited by Mike G on October 11th, 2004, 5:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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  • Post #2 - October 7th, 2004, 6:00 pm
    Post #2 - October 7th, 2004, 6:00 pm Post #2 - October 7th, 2004, 6:00 pm
    Well, I've actually seen the article now (takes a while for Reader trucks to get up here, I guess) and have two comments:

    1) If anyone actually wants to attempt a defense of Cheesecake Factory or Grand Lux Cafe on genuine culinary (not just you-sure-get-a-lot-of-food-and-hey-what-else-is-on-Michigan-Avenue grounds), I'll be impressed for one.

    2) The last eight guys after the Apocalypse won't be posting about Jim Leff. They'll be asking "Where can I get real NY pizza in the post-apocalypse?"
    Watch Sky Full of Bacon, the Chicago food HD podcast!
    New episode: Soil, Corn, Cows and Cheese
    Watch the Reader's James Beard Award-winning Key Ingredient here.
  • Post #3 - October 8th, 2004, 12:33 am
    Post #3 - October 8th, 2004, 12:33 am Post #3 - October 8th, 2004, 12:33 am
    I think Mike Sula did an excellent job of documenting details of the controversy and mini-collapse of the Chicago Chowhound board, the birth of LTH Forum, etc., as related to him around courses at LTH, the restaurant.

    I read through it again just now, and I'm trying to imagine if anyone other than us would be interested in reading the details of the Smoke Daddy/Bone Daddy fiasco, or, more to the point, the differences between Chowhound and LTH Forum...and I'm just not sure.

    But it probably doesn't matter.

    From here to eternity, whenever someone asks, so how did LTH Forum get started, we can just send them to this article, and most of their questions will be answered.

    Hammond

    PS. Were those "blue crabs"?
  • Post #4 - October 8th, 2004, 10:16 am
    Post #4 - October 8th, 2004, 10:16 am Post #4 - October 8th, 2004, 10:16 am
    I read the Reader article and was very intrigued. I have a feeling there will be a significant bump in readership and membership in the coming weeks. Thanks to all for contributing to such an interesting and useful forum.
    Tim
  • Post #5 - October 8th, 2004, 10:20 am
    Post #5 - October 8th, 2004, 10:20 am Post #5 - October 8th, 2004, 10:20 am
    TGPsu,

    Welcome, and thanks for confirming that even without mention of the actual site address in the article, Reader readers are savvy enough to figure out that adding a .com is all they need to find the site.

    Hammond
  • Post #6 - October 8th, 2004, 1:27 pm
    Post #6 - October 8th, 2004, 1:27 pm Post #6 - October 8th, 2004, 1:27 pm
    I generally peruse the Reader each week for restaurant stuff and I did a double take when I read about Smoke Daddy / Bone Daddy / Twisted Spoke. As the owner of Twisted Spoke, I had no idea about any of this. The article led me here. I am not sure if this is something that should be addressed or not, but I thought it would be worth throwing in my two cents.

    First, I don't know of any "shilling" for Bone Daddy. I would look up Chowhound from time to time and the only things I ever saw about Bone Daddy ranged from mediocre to negative, with the notable exception of GWiv, who had at least modestly positive things to say. I recall that he noted that he had met me and at least appreciated that we made "real" barbecue. I don't know if that is considered shilling, but I was told that we were banned shortly after a barbecue wrap-up.

    I am not sure in reading the article if the implication is that Twisted Spoke should be banned too. However, I gave up years ago in worrying about the legitimacy of what is posted on line. From a quick look through the topics here, at least this forum seems more civil than most. Hopefully, this one will succeed where the others have not. Good luck.
  • Post #7 - October 8th, 2004, 1:43 pm
    Post #7 - October 8th, 2004, 1:43 pm Post #7 - October 8th, 2004, 1:43 pm
    To be honest, I was a bit startled when I read that coming out of my mouth in the Reader. Not that I didn't say it, I did. But who'd have guessed that things you say to a reporter would end up in the paper?

    All I know for sure is that Chowhound barred Smoke Daddy because they had something against Bone Daddy and confused the two. But I don't think at this late date anyone besides Jim Leff knows quite what that was, not least because I'm sure it got yanked quickly so very few people saw whatever it was, way back when.

    The real point is that Chowhound, partly because they cannot really track who uses their site, takes an extremely hard line against shilling-- and defines shilling as basically any post by anyone with a commercial interest. More than once, back in our Chowhound days, we'd be talking to a restaurant owner about it and he would say "I ought to go on there and say something about my place" and we'd say No! That's the last thing you should do. One wrong word and you're banned for life.

    We're more relaxed about such things, as long as people are upfront about their affiliations (using the handle "Twisted Spoke" being one example). The best defense against shilling isn't moderators zapping pre-emptively, it's honest posters and intelligent readers making their own judgements about what they read. So whatever happened, it may not have been something that would strike us as shilling on this site, and I apologize for not throwing in a few "allegedlys" and "what Jim Leff apparently considered to be's," which would represent my actual knowledge of what happened-- as well as our likely opinion of it. Whatever the hell it was.
    Watch Sky Full of Bacon, the Chicago food HD podcast!
    New episode: Soil, Corn, Cows and Cheese
    Watch the Reader's James Beard Award-winning Key Ingredient here.
  • Post #8 - October 8th, 2004, 4:06 pm
    Post #8 - October 8th, 2004, 4:06 pm Post #8 - October 8th, 2004, 4:06 pm
    Is there a copy online anywhere? My sis told me about it but I don't live where I can pick up a hard copy.
  • Post #9 - October 8th, 2004, 4:39 pm
    Post #9 - October 8th, 2004, 4:39 pm Post #9 - October 8th, 2004, 4:39 pm
    I don't believe it's on the website.
    Watch Sky Full of Bacon, the Chicago food HD podcast!
    New episode: Soil, Corn, Cows and Cheese
    Watch the Reader's James Beard Award-winning Key Ingredient here.
  • Post #10 - October 9th, 2004, 3:27 am
    Post #10 - October 9th, 2004, 3:27 am Post #10 - October 9th, 2004, 3:27 am
    Mike G wrote:To be honest, I was a bit startled when I read that coming out of my mouth in the Reader. Not that I didn't say it, I did. But who'd have guessed that things you say to a reporter would end up in the paper?


    Sorry. I should have warned you before we started the PR campaign.
  • Post #11 - October 15th, 2004, 11:43 pm
    Post #11 - October 15th, 2004, 11:43 pm Post #11 - October 15th, 2004, 11:43 pm
    I just got the article from my sister and am really disappointed. Most of the quotes and all of the chowhound backstory comes off as a lot of nasty playground sniping, which detracts from the real message, which is that there's this hard core, passionate group of people who love great food and have started a website to discuss it. I really thought this site was over that baggage, and I've appreciated the genteel environment that's resulted from the low level of flaming, even when chowhound has come up. I'm just surprised all this ugliness is being dragged out as part of a recruitment effort.

    I participate on egullet and it became a much more professional and interesting site once the founders got over their bitterness at how they left chowhound. And the same thing with opinionatedabout.com- once they stopped the egullet bashing, the quality of the site really went up. I just think all these website politics are a lot of wasted energy that creates a negative environment. Do you want to be on a site that's motivated by hate (of another site) or by love (of great food)?
  • Post #12 - October 16th, 2004, 12:10 am
    Post #12 - October 16th, 2004, 12:10 am Post #12 - October 16th, 2004, 12:10 am
    Joy's Sis,

    Since I participated in the interview, I can assure you we were very upbeat. We really didn't highlight the history as much as you would presume from this article. We are really very proud of LTHforum, which we recognize whose roots were in Chowhound. We very much appreciate the legacy of Chowhound because how else could we have ever, ever found each other. We also have a vision for LTH, which could never be realized in CH.

    We definitely consider Mike Sula a friend of LTHforum who knows the chain of events which led to LTHforum as well as anyone here. There may have been editorial considerations which were outside of our influence on the direction of the story. Sure I would have rather have had an article which briefly mentioned our roots in CH, then launched into how we have built a something even better at LTHforum, which we sincerely believe, rather than rehashing past experiences.

    However, in practice, how much negativity do you see on LTHforum about CH? Very little with hardly any coming from moderators, more often someone simply observing how things have changed at CH.

    I cannot say my finding CH changed my life, but it gave me a community to share my interests I would have never otherwise found on my own. I appreciate what CH offered me, where I still contribute occasionally but my home is now at LTHforum.

    To answer your question, there is no doubt LTH is driven by a love and passion for good food, interesting conversation and fellowship. Please consider your personal experience here as your reference point.
    Last edited by Cathy2 on October 16th, 2004, 12:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
    Cathy2

    "You'll be remembered long after you're dead if you make good gravy, mashed potatoes and biscuits." -- Nathalie Dupree
    Facebook, Twitter, Greater Midwest Foodways, Road Food 2012: Podcast
  • Post #13 - October 16th, 2004, 12:13 am
    Post #13 - October 16th, 2004, 12:13 am Post #13 - October 16th, 2004, 12:13 am
    I'm just surprised all this ugliness is being dragged out as part of a recruitment effort.


    I'm with you Joy's Sis, as, I think you'll find, is everybody else involved with the management of this forum, the reader article notwithstanding. We are all much much much more interested in talking about restaurants than in talking about the "trouble with chowhound". I would note that LTHForum had no editorial oversight of the reader article, so it's not exactly a recruitment effort. Mike Sula wrote the article the way he saw it, which is fine. But the back and forth over leff et al has very deliberately not been a part of the discourse online here.

    So, reader readers may come looking for strife, but we hope they'll stay for the food.
  • Post #14 - October 16th, 2004, 12:17 am
    Post #14 - October 16th, 2004, 12:17 am Post #14 - October 16th, 2004, 12:17 am
    Joy's Sis, I know what you mean. Not that any of this didn't happen, the article is accurate in everything except the number of moderators (11, not eight), but I can assure you that five minutes after starting LTHForum we weren't sitting around thinking much about CH at all, except in the sense of useful precedents for how we'll handle similar situations. Nothing gets your mind off old arguments like suddenly having your own site to run. Indeed, nothing creates newfound compassion for the plight of other food site operators like having your own site to run. In fact, we have tried (without, admittedly, putting too much effort into it either way) to maintain cordial relations with CH, and of course several of the moderators still post there as well as here.

    The press likes conflict to write about-- that's why none of the presidential debates was followed by the headline "Bush, Kerry Agree on Maintaining Western-Style Capitalist Democracy"-- and without that angle, well, it would have been a story about a lot of eating and typing. So they did the story about how we got started, and now it's done. Should we be lucky enough to get more publicity at some future date, it will have to be about something else now, like our upcoming Food-In-The-Nude-A-Thon. (Joke.)

    P.S. Wow, everybody's up and answering this post like lightning! Go to bed!
    Watch Sky Full of Bacon, the Chicago food HD podcast!
    New episode: Soil, Corn, Cows and Cheese
    Watch the Reader's James Beard Award-winning Key Ingredient here.
  • Post #15 - October 16th, 2004, 11:07 am
    Post #15 - October 16th, 2004, 11:07 am Post #15 - October 16th, 2004, 11:07 am
    i feel fortunate to have read about it in the reader the first wk i'm back in town. just what the dr. ordered.

    so far, the chi maki roll by chuck falzone is the hands down winner.

    i'm loving the informed and opinionated insights and feel it's kismit.

    bravo, members!
    "In pursuit of joys untasted"
    from Giuseppe Verdi's La Traviata

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