Burt's 2.0

Definitely enjoyed a Wednesday night soiree at a cozy Burt’s (Place) 2.0 with Cathy2, ReneG and chicago station.

So much history with Burt, myself going back to high school days when he had just began to hone his iconic and quirky personality at Pequod. This was followed by the opening on Ferris down Lincoln Avenue from the old store, the years of relative obscurity, when my family and friends were frequent customers—we loved it.

Then came the LTH-fueled awakening--Saveur, Bourdain & with it a commensurate hyper-criticism of the ordering process, and unfair allusions to Seinfeld’s ‘Soup Nazi’. Ironically, I always thought Burt was happiest before he was discovered by the digital world, a Renaissance raconteur making a few pizzas a day & kibitzing with customers.

I hadn’t stepped into the old blacksmith shop since years before Burt passed, only partially by design. Before last night, I had caught up on the history of the new owners, which in turn piqued my curiosity about the accuracy of the recipe that supposedly had been passed down.

Our order was two medium pizzas, size determined by Cathy2 relating that longtime LTH colleague Josephine thought the baking process & ingredient distribution worked best at that diameter. Sausage (‘Burt’s Blend’ it said on the menu---I don’t know about that, Burt’s was more garlicky), onion, spinach, mixed peppers on one, and sausage, mushroom, mixed peppers on the other.

Verdict—it’s a decidedly solid pan pizza. It’s not Burt’s, specifically in the taste profile that I somewhat-fuzzily remember, and the top of crust wasn’t quite as carboned-up as the original. No matter—the pizza’s appearance in pan was gorgeous, and the crunch of the server cutting a piece was aurally pleasant. I thought at one point that the pizza may have been a tad mozzarella-heavy, but recalling Burt laying down multiple overlapping slices onto the dough like a blackjack dealer, that’s probably not the case.

In my heart of hearts, I wanted to not like this pie. But I did, quite a bit, and the company was stellar. Till the next time, aficionados…

Hi,

I was emulating the information from Josephine's post, 'Burt's Pan Pizza: Does Size Really Matter?'

This was perhaps my second or third visit to 2.0. I had not gone in years and recall not particularly liking my last pizza there. Last night's visit was far and away better than my last. I recall last time, I thought it was too doughly.

Last night, we arrived early. Perhaps only two parties sat down long after us, though there was quite a bit of delivery and pick up activity.

I arrived home about the time my Dad came back from a meeting with pizza being served. I offered my pizza, which he initially declined. I suggested my pizza was very likely better than whatever he just had. Red flag to a bull, he cut the piece in half to share with Mom. He immediately agreed this was a far better pizza than what he that evening or the one time I took him to Burt's 1.0. The one time I took my family to Burt's, Burt had an off night.

Not to far away, there is a Jet's, Pequod's and Burt's, which could make for an interesting crawl.

Two plus hours of pizza history conversation was quite fun to partake.

Regards,
CAthy2

I tried Burt's 2.0 when it first opened and was underwhelmed. Maybe it's time to give it another try. (like Pequod's better than 2.0)

If you want to do an interesting local pizza crawl, tho, I suggest adding at least one local halal pizza joint. (OMG Grill and Halal Belly are both on Dempster.) Toppings can include butter chicken, beef pepperoni, gyros meat, chicken 65 and all of the usual veggies.

Giovanna

Last night I drove by OMG! Grill on the way to the Edens after dinner and remarked whatthehell is that? Just looked at the online menu and it's huge. Might be worth a try, if only out of curiosity. And OMG! is also on the same block as maybe my favorite Korean joint of all, JeonJu Restaurant, which is a favorite of GWiv. Best goat dishes around...

But if you're including OMG! Grill in a crawl of sorts, then you'd have to include the place a couple miles down Dempster--Larsa's, which I believe is Lebanese.

jnm123 wrote:on the way to the Edens after dinner

When you say "the Edens" I think movie theater

jnm123 wrote:But if you're including OMG! Grill in a crawl of sorts, then you'd have to include the place a couple miles down Dempster--Larsa's, which I believe is Lebanese.

Would Larsa's keep with the pizza theme?

Are you thinking of their Manna Eash?

Regards,
CAthy2

I just checked Larsa’s online menu.

They utilize the old LaRosa’s pizza oven, and while the names of the pizzas are traditional, items like steak shawarma and hummus are used.

Cathy2 wrote:

jnm123 wrote:But if you're including OMG! Grill in a crawl of sorts, then you'd have to include the place a couple miles down Dempster--Larsa's, which I believe is Lebanese.

Would Larsa's keep with the pizza theme?

Are you thinking of their Manna Eash?

Regards,
CAthy2

Actually, Larsa's kept the large pizza oven that was part and parcel of LaRosa's, whose space they took. Larsa's has had pizza on their menu since they opened. My late wife, who occasionally liked thin crust versions, thought their pizzas to be passable.

jnm123 wrote:I just checked Larsa’s online menu.

They utilize the old LaRosa’s pizza oven, and while the names of the pizzas are traditional, items like steak shawarma and hummus are used.

I guess they chose their name so they could reuse the letters from the original sign.

HI,

My thinking on this crawl is stick to a theme of Burt's type and similiar, which is the Detroit style pizza. Jet's and Little Ceasar's are more complimentary to Burt's and Pequod's than Larsa.

I can already feel the eyes rolling by mentioning Little Ceasar's. The last and only one I had might have been in the late 1980s or early 1990s. Since reading it was based on Detroit style, I want to see how it really compares.

That's my two cents!

Regards,
Cathy2

FWIW, Steve Dolinsky omitted Burt’s 2.0 in both of his Chicago pizza books while including newer deep dish/pan spots such as La Barra/Labriola, Millie’s Pizza in the Pan and Burt 2.0 spin-off Lefty’s.

To those who have been to Burt’s more recently than I, how does it stack up to other deep dish purveyors in Chicagoland? I went soon after it opened and was struck by the inconsistency, which I attributed to the owners’ inexperience at the time.

ld111134 wrote:To those who have been to Burt’s more recently than I, how does it stack up to other deep dish purveyors in Chicagoland? I went soon after it opened and was struck by the inconsistency, which I attributed to the owners’ inexperience at the time.

I was there early on and did not feel they captured it. This time around was much better.

As for consistency, I have not been there enough to know.

BTW - Steve Dolinsky's will be presenting to Culinary Historians of Chicago on December 8th, you are welcome to ask your question about Burt's 2.0.

Regards,
CAthy2

Cathy2 wrote:HI,

My thinking on this crawl is stick to a theme of Burt's type and similiar, which is the Detroit style pizza. Jet's and Little Ceasar's are more complimentary to Burt's and Pequod's than Larsa.

I can already feel the eyes rolling by mentioning Little Ceasar's. The last and only one I had might have been in the late 1980s or early 1990s. Since reading it was based on Detroit style, I want to see how it really compares.

That's my two cents!

Regards,
Cathy2

Yeah I would call their style "Detroit Inspired." The presentation with the caramelized cheese looks a little like Detroit, but none of the restaurants you mentioned included Jet's and Little Caesar's (both originally from Detroit) serve authentic Detroit style. But you may know all of this.

Has anyone been to Burt’s recently? It seems to have dropped off the radar screen.

We go frequently and feel that it’s as good as ever. My favorite is to order the pizza with caramelized onions, spinach and mushrooms. My brother went just last night with my almost 92 year old mom and they said that their spinach, mushroom and peppers was delicious. We love the patio.

So...does this mean that Burt Katz is the godfather of the best pizza in the US?!

https://www.facebook.com/nbcchicago/videos/1113387383128910

jnm123 wrote:So...does this mean that Burt Katz is the godfather of the best pizza in the US?!

https://www.facebook.com/nbcchicago/videos/1113387383128910

I think we need to do same day visits to Pequod's and Burt's to see how things are today.

Regards,
Cathy2

Problem is, that's a 4 hour deal, if you go to both places. I certainly don't want to be like a certain rich but obbynoxious pizza critic that runs out the place's door, into the street and jams a slice in his mouth. Somewhere in between would work.

You almost wish you could have them simultaneously. But you almost gotta have it right out of the pan. The first bite is key.

Let's give this some serious down-the-rabbit-hole thought. There are so many similarities because of the Burt Katz lineage way back to Inferno on Central in Evanston. It would be great to A/B to identify the differences, and whether that deviation helps or hinders the overall quality.

Simple solution: You do what Burt would've made you do. Order ahead at both stops, allowing adequate time in between the first and second stop.

Buddy

Buddy Roadhouse's solution is a good one. An alternate is to order takeout from both at the same time, then have a pizza comparison keeping them warm on the hood of your car.

As Gwiv would say: "Chow Science"

I appreciate the input George, but doing carryout, IMO, would do a disservice to both pizzas. Although he liked the income from carryouts, Burt regretted every pizza that walked out the door; insisting "fresh out of the oven" was always the best way to eat his food.

Buddy

Hi,

Back in April, 2006, Josephine and I went to both Burt's and Pequod's in the space of two hours. We ordered our pizza after arrival, enjoyed what we had and took some home.

I link to the original post from BuddyRoadHouse challenging us to try Burt's, then the next post reports on Josephine and I's experience at both places.

I do look forward to trying both on the same day.

Regards,
Cathy2

For those, like me, who don't know Burt's story, a biography from Dr. Neil Gale (the postcard collector):
https://drloihjournal.blogspot.com/2020 ... place.html
and a more personal portrait by Christopher Borrelli:
https://www.chicagotribune.com/2011/09/ ... zza-guy-2/

Neither explain where Burt learned to make pizza or why he selected two former futures traders to be his heirs-in-pizza. Or what happened to Sharon Katz. Or the honeymoon Toyopet truck, which Gale hints may still exist.

The passing of the pizza torch from Burt's family to the traders is well-documented in the archives here on LTH, probably most accurately told by BuddyRoadhouse, who've I have known for more than 40 years and who worked for Burt about that long as well.

One thing I knew--Burt's attitude when he was serving you pizza at the original Pequod or on Ferris a couple blocks over was the same--almost dismissive like, 'here, you came for this, right?' He knew it was good. Once he got caught up with his orders in the back, then he'd come out and 'kibbitz'. With the hard work behind him, he could turn on that hardscrabble West Side charm of his, and you were gone.

You take that away, and all's you got is a pizza.

jnm123 wrote:The passing of the pizza torch from Burt's family to the traders is well-documented in the archives here on LTH, probably most accurately told by BuddyRoadhouse, who've I have known for more than 40 years and who worked for Burt about that long as well.

Can you point me in the direction? There are many many tales of Burt's here, as might be expected given its cult stature.

In return, a somewhat off-topic link to the Pequod's at the top Yelp Elites pizza list: https://www.yelp.com/article/top-100-pizza-spots-2024
Other Chicago mentions, some of which LTH rarely if ever discusses:
#17 Piece
#27 Chicago Pizza & Oven Grinder
#44 Spacca Napoli
#91 Calo's
#98 Coalfire

tjr wrote:For those, like me, who don't know Burt's story, a biography from Dr. Neil Gale (the postcard collector):
https://drloihjournal.blogspot.com/2020 ... place.html
and a more personal portrait by Christopher Borrelli:
https://www.chicagotribune.com/2011/09/ ... zza-guy-2/

Neither explain where Burt learned to make pizza or why he selected two former futures traders to be his heirs-in-pizza. Or what happened to Sharon Katz. Or the honeymoon Toyopet truck, which Gale hints may still exist.

So much to unpack here.

First off, it's almost comical when someone like Dr. Gale, with so little authority, attempts to write so authoritatively. His article is riddled with errors; mostly spelling and grammar, but even the facts, when gotten right, are written with an air of unfounded vague confidence usually seen in a poorly researched high school essay citing only one questionable source.

The most glaring, and obvious error comes near the top. Directly beneath the heading 'BURTON "BURT" D. KATZ' (note the correct spelling of "Burt), Gale spells his name "Bert". He goes on to make the same mistake multiple times throughout the article, although he sometimes, inexplicably, gets it right. After that, it's near impossible to take anything else he says seriously.

Along those lines, and in answer to your question about the Toyopet truck Burt & Sharon drove across Asia and Europe, it sat in his garage in Skokie for decades, collecting dust. He did in fact give it to a guy in Glenview, as mentioned in the article, but he was not a friend so much as someone who just happened to have an extensive, but loose collection of vehicles, who was willing to get it out of Burt's garage. I used to work near the property where it was stored, and wouldn't call it a museum, as described in the article, so much as a moderately curated junkyard for unique and historical vehicles.

I have far more respect and fondness for Chris Borrelli's Tribune article. Not only is it beautifully written, it was carefully researched, including first hand, in-depth interviews with Burt himself. Nothing more to be said about that; the article speaks for itself.

To answer your other questions, Burt learned to make pan pizza at his first store, The Inferno, in Evanston. It was both an investment and a learning experience for him. Prior to that, I believe, he had no pizza making experience. FWIW, Burt never claimed to be a "chef", or even a "cook". He freely admitted that boiling an egg was beyond his capabilities, but in his words, "Pizza and me, we just get along."

He did not "select" his successors in the way a dying monarch chooses who will next sit on the throne. The full story is long and complex, and nobody's business, but the short version is, Burt knew he was near death and wanted to make make sure his family was taken care of. Two guys with the right amount of money approached him, wanting to buy the business, and that was that. They never spent a day in the kitchen with Burt, relying solely on his oral descriptions of what to do. Once they finally contacted me, I was able to give them a more practical education in making a Burt's Pizza.

Unfortunately, what was supposed to be a long and fruitful relationship between myself and the new owners ended badly. Again, a long and complex story that is nobody's business beyond what I've already said.

Sharon Katz passed away in September, 2022. I still have occasional contact with Burt & Sharon's kids, although we haven't seen each other lately.

That's the scoop,
Buddy

BuddyRoadhouse wrote:

tjr wrote:For those, like me, who don't know Burt's story, a biography from Dr. Neil Gale (the postcard collector):
https://drloihjournal.blogspot.com/2020 ... place.html
and a more personal portrait by Christopher Borrelli:
https://www.chicagotribune.com/2011/09/ ... zza-guy-2/

Neither explain where Burt learned to make pizza or why he selected two former futures traders to be his heirs-in-pizza. Or what happened to Sharon Katz. Or the honeymoon Toyopet truck, which Gale hints may still exist.

So much to unpack here.

First off, it's almost comical when someone like Dr. Gale, with so little authority, attempts to write so authoritatively. His article is riddled with errors; mostly spelling and grammar, but even the facts, when gotten right, are written with an air of unfounded vague confidence usually seen in a poorly researched high school essay citing only one questionable source.

The most glaring, and obvious error comes near the top. Directly beneath the heading 'BURTON "BURT" D. KATZ' (note the correct spelling of "Burt), Gale spells his name "Bert". He goes on to make the same mistake multiple times throughout the article, although he sometimes, inexplicably, gets it right. After that, it's near impossible to take anything else he says seriously.

Along those lines, and in answer to your question about the Toyopet truck Burt & Sharon drove across Asia and Europe, it sat in his garage in Skokie for decades, collecting dust. He did in fact give it to a guy in Glenview, as mentioned in the article, but he was not a friend so much as someone who just happened to have an extensive, but loose collection of vehicles, who was willing to get it out of Burt's garage. I used to work near the property where it was stored, and wouldn't call it a museum, as described in the article, so much as a moderately curated junkyard for unique and historical vehicles.

I have far more respect and fondness for Chris Borrelli's Tribune article. Not only is it beautifully written, it was carefully researched, including first hand, in-depth interviews with Burt himself. Nothing more to be said about that; the article speaks for itself.

To answer your other questions, Burt learned to make pan pizza at his first store, The Inferno, in Evanston. It was both an investment and a learning experience for him. Prior to that, I believe, he had no pizza making experience. FWIW, Burt never claimed to be a "chef", or even a "cook". He freely admitted that boiling an egg was beyond his capabilities, but in his words, "Pizza and me, we just get along."

He did not "select" his successors in the way a dying monarch chooses who will next sit on the throne. The full story is long and complex, and nobody's business, but the short version is, Burt knew he was near death and wanted to make make sure his family was taken care of. Two guys with the right amount of money approached him, wanting to buy the business, and that was that. They never spent a day in the kitchen with Burt, relying solely on his oral descriptions of what to do. Once they finally contacted me, I was able to give them a more practical education in making a Burt's Pizza.

Unfortunately, what was supposed to be a long and fruitful relationship between myself and the new owners ended badly. Again, a long and complex story that is nobody's business beyond what I've already said.

Sharon Katz passed away in September, 2022. I still have occasional contact with Burt & Sharon's kids, although we haven't seen each other lately.

That's the scoop,
Buddy

great stuff, not a fan of the two new owners either.

The two (then) new owners split up over "creative differences", shall we say, not long after they reopened Burt's Place. The guy who got booted went on to open Lefty's in Wilmette, followed by a second location in Highland Park.

Buddy

BuddyRoadhouse wrote:

tjr wrote:For those, like me, who don't know Burt's story, a biography from Dr. Neil Gale (the postcard collector):
https://drloihjournal.blogspot.com/2020 ... place.html
and a more personal portrait by Christopher Borrelli:
https://www.chicagotribune.com/2011/09/ ... zza-guy-2/

Neither explain where Burt learned to make pizza or why he selected two former futures traders to be his heirs-in-pizza. Or what happened to Sharon Katz. Or the honeymoon Toyopet truck, which Gale hints may still exist.

So much to unpack here.

First off, it's almost comical when someone like Dr. Gale, with so little authority, attempts to write so authoritatively. His article is riddled with errors; mostly spelling and grammar, but even the facts, when gotten right, are written with an air of unfounded vague confidence usually seen in a poorly researched high school essay citing only one questionable source.

The most glaring, and obvious error comes near the top. Directly beneath the heading 'BURTON "BURT" D. KATZ' (note the correct spelling of "Burt), Gale spells his name "Bert". He goes on to make the same mistake multiple times throughout the article, although he sometimes, inexplicably, gets it right. After that, it's near impossible to take anything else he says seriously.

Along those lines, and in answer to your question about the Toyopet truck Burt & Sharon drove across Asia and Europe, it sat in his garage in Skokie for decades, collecting dust. He did in fact give it to a guy in Glenview, as mentioned in the article, but he was not a friend so much as someone who just happened to have an extensive, but loose collection of vehicles, who was willing to get it out of Burt's garage. I used to work near the property where it was stored, and wouldn't call it a museum, as described in the article, so much as a moderately curated junkyard for unique and historical vehicles.

I have far more respect and fondness for Chris Borrelli's Tribune article. Not only is it beautifully written, it was carefully researched, including first hand, in-depth interviews with Burt himself. Nothing more to be said about that; the article speaks for itself.

To answer your other questions, Burt learned to make pan pizza at his first store, The Inferno, in Evanston. It was both an investment and a learning experience for him. Prior to that, I believe, he had no pizza making experience. FWIW, Burt never claimed to be a "chef", or even a "cook". He freely admitted that boiling an egg was beyond his capabilities, but in his words, "Pizza and me, we just get along."

He did not "select" his successors in the way a dying monarch chooses who will next sit on the throne. The full story is long and complex, and nobody's business, but the short version is, Burt knew he was near death and wanted to make make sure his family was taken care of. Two guys with the right amount of money approached him, wanting to buy the business, and that was that. They never spent a day in the kitchen with Burt, relying solely on his oral descriptions of what to do. Once they finally contacted me, I was able to give them a more practical education in making a Burt's Pizza.

Unfortunately, what was supposed to be a long and fruitful relationship between myself and the new owners ended badly. Again, a long and complex story that is nobody's business beyond what I've already said.

Sharon Katz passed away in September, 2022. I still have occasional contact with Burt & Sharon's kids, although we haven't seen each other lately.

That's the scoop,
Buddy

*Applause!*
Thank you for taking the time to lay this out. It is very much appreciated.

As for "Dr." Gale, in layman's terms, he's a quack. Everything he writes is dubious and error-ridden. If you can't spell your subject's name, you immediately lose all credibility. It is, after all, the first rule of journalism. Doctor Pepper is more trustworthy.

=R=

Thanks Ronnie.

Just one last point: According to the current owner of Burt's, the Toyopet truck ended up with a guy somewhere in the southwest U.S. who restores vintage vehicles. The two of them have spoken, and arrangements were supposed to be made to ship the truck here to be displayed in what is now the patio dining area at Burt's.

Those discussions took place before Burt's reopened. The truck has not yet made an appearance.

Buddy