ATK & Kenji Chicago Thin Crust (Wells Brother's Pizza)

BadgerDave wrote:

jnm123 wrote:

buckthorne wrote:Tuesday 02/07/23
Anxiously waiting. A Dave Portnoy review of Wells Brothers is said to be on the way. We shall see.

If this 'Internet influencer' doesn't proclaim Wells Brothers the absolute best pizza of its genre, it will just confirm my opinion of him & his ilk.

No idea if this is related but Kenji Lopez-Alt was in town (CHIand MKE) hitting up all of the tavern pizza go-to places a few weeks back; everything from Vito & Nicks to Kim's Uncle in Westmont to Zaffiro and Wells Brothers north of the cheddar curtain. See his IG account for specifics.

From yesterday’s NYT. Probably behind a paywall.

Kenji López-Alt Spent 5 Months Studying Chicago Thin-Crust Pizza. Here’s What He Learned. Among his many revelations: a game-changing technique for yielding that crisp crust at home

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/17/dini ... ticleShare

Perhaps this belongs somewhere else, but has anyone tried the 2018 Cook's Country recipe referenced in the article? When I return home, I'll dig it out.

tjr wrote:Perhaps this belongs somewhere else, but has anyone tried the 2018 Cook's Country recipe referenced in the article? When I return home, I'll dig it out.

For those of us where the Cook's Country is behind a paywall, is this, from WTTW, the same recipe?

Katie wrote:Yes, pretty sure that's it.

Thank you Miss Katie.

HI,

I have made this pizza, it is pretty darn good.

Regards,
CAthy2

Here's the video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-NZ0kIexkc

Buddy

The Cooks Country magazine combines an interview with Rose of Vito and Nick's, the pizza recipe, and an article and recipe on sweet Italian sausage as made on the TV show. The interview provided a history of the restaurant and a little more info about how they make pizza: Dough is flattened with a sheeter to 1/4" thick, edges are trimmed, and the peel is floured with semolina. The sausage article saliently pointed out that each family's sausage recipe is somewhat different. (Cooks Country, Aug/Sep 2018, pp 4-6)

The NYT article can be read paywall-free using Google Translate. Slight hassle as each link must be run through Translate. And, to boast a bit, seems like Kenji and I were on the same track:
(post from pizzamaking.com forum Jan 2021) with, in my case, help from user Renchero. And I didn't know about curing, although I wonder if that makes the crust too crunchy.

Dave148 wrote:

BadgerDave wrote:...
No idea if this is related but Kenji Lopez-Alt was in town (CHIand MKE) hitting up all of the tavern pizza go-to places a few weeks back; everything from Vito & Nicks to Kim's Uncle in Westmont to Zaffiro and Wells Brothers north of the cheddar curtain. See his IG account for specifics.

From yesterday’s NYT. Probably behind a paywall.

Kenji López-Alt Spent 5 Months Studying Chicago Thin-Crust Pizza. Here’s What He Learned. Among his many revelations: a game-changing technique for yielding that crisp crust at home

I've generated a gift link (active for the next two weeks) from the NYT for Kenji's write-up which should work for reading without a subscription.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/17/dining/tavern-thin-crust-pizza-chicago.html

--
edc

edc wrote:I've generated a gift link (active for the next two weeks) from the NYT for Kenji's write-up which should work for reading without a subscription.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/17/dining/tavern-thin-crust-pizza-chicago.html

--
edc

Thank you. That is most kind of you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mIbyUgNOlo

Cathy2 wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mIbyUgNOlo

Thank you Ms. 2. I've booked marked the link to watch later. Most kind of you.

Hi,

I made the Kenji-recipe dough earlier this week. It will be our lunch for tomorrow with sausage minus the giardiniera. There will be a pepperoni to keep one person happy.

I like the idea of freezing the cured rounds for a future meal.

Regards,
Cathy2

This post was separated from a discussion on Wells Brother's Pizza.

I made the Kenji's Chicago Thin Crust Pizza. I made the crust earlier last week. It likely aged two days longer than the three to five days suggested. For the tomato sauce, I had a 28 ounce can of 6-in-1 tomato sauce.* I read there was a thick tomato puree introduced, so I skipped the tomato paste. I thought I had mozzarella in the house, but instead I made do with a mixture consisting of an 8-ounce mixture of mozzarella and provolone and an 8-ounce block of jack cheese. Due to family preference, it was pepperoni and Italian sausage on the pizza.

Each pizza cooked for about 11 minutes on a preheated thick metal plate in a blistering hot 500-degree. I do not have a peel, so I mounted pizza one-at-a-time on parchment seated on a oversized pizza pan and slide the parchment onto the metal plate.

I checked at eight minutes, moved the pizza about 180 degrees, then waited an extra two-minutes or so. The second pizza seemed to come out too early by looking at the bottom crust, so I slid it back for an additional minute. The whole surface was bubbling when I pulled it for the last time.

After pulling pizza one, waited ten minutes for the oven to recover and seat the next pizza.

Waiting three to five minutes was a long time and well worth it, because this was one very crispy crust. Eating it any earlier might have burned our mouths. It was definitely a DIY Tavern-style thin crust pizza. The ATK version was not as crisp as Kenji's, though it was quicker to make.

I did take a cold ATK 'Vito and Nick's' style pizza to a V&N appreciator, who thought it was pretty close to the real thing. I think both pizza approaches reach desirable results, with one crisp (ATK) and the other very, very crisp. I would go for both.

Regards,
Cathy2

*I may have several more cans, then I will join the sad chorus of people who miss this product.

Is 6-in-1 not available anymore? Escalon lists the 28oz cans on their website: https://www.escalon.net/product/0007848 ... 28-oz-Cans That long number in the link is the SKU.

And GFS seems to have the big cans: https://gfsstore.com/products/496022 altho not as convenient. Excess can be portioned and frozen.

Here is a thread devoted to 6-in-1 tomato sauce.

I bought a case at a salvage store a few years ago.

Regards,
CAthy2

Hi,

Around 3 PM today, I prepared 'Chicago thin crust' pizza dough to ATK's instructions. The dough was ready at 5 PM, so I turned on the oven to 500 degrees. About 30 minutes later I began dressing the pizza: Divided the dough into equal portions, put one piece aside and rolled the other to about 14 or more inches.

ATK's recipe directs you to roll out a 12-inch circle, but I decided to aim toward Kenji's 14-inches. I still have tomato sauce from Kenji, so I sparingly spread the sauce to the edges.

Topping with ingredients is where ATK and Kenji part ways:
- ATK applies six-ounces cheese on top of the tomato sauce, then adds the sausage. Today I topped the pizza with pepperoni plus scant amounts of slivered onion and pepper.
- Kenji applies sauce and sausage, then eight-ounces cheese. The other day it was two pizzas topped with sausage and pepperoni.

My Dad commented the pizza needed more cheese on the Kenji pizza. He was quite happy with the amount of cheese on the ATK pizza. He was quite surprised when I explained the first pizzas had more cheese than the ATK pizza.

Today's pizza was not as crispy as Kenji's, though our pizza met all acceptable standards of a thin crust crispy pizza. Kenji's variant is over the top crunchy, which can be quite a happy surprise for many.

I have one portion of ATK pizza dough, which I rolled out to 14-inches and letting it cure overnight.

I plan to stop by Poeta's for their Italian sausage that has ample fennel according to reports on LTH.

Tomorrow, I will cook a pizza using the ATK dough cured to Kenji's style, using Kenji sauce, six-ounces cheese, Poeta's sauce and a scattering of onion, pepper and mushrooms.

Regards,
CAthy2

Fascinating stuff, Cath! I will be looking to do this when I get back.

In the meantime, as long as we're discussing DIY pizza, I've been trying to do justice using a much simpler method--the Trader Joe's pizza crust, which truth be told is more Roman, a little bread-ier & thicker, to be served in a rectangular slice like Bonci.

I rub the crust with olive oil, then using Trader Joe's jarred pizza sauce--quite good--mix a thin-to-medium layer with the olive oil. Then sprinkle TJ's Quattro Formaggi shredded Italian cheese, followed by a generous shake of Penzey's Frozen Pizza Seasoning, which is really a perfect blend with maybe an addition of some dried fennel.

From there, I've been making it into a veggie pizza with very thinly sliced onion, green pepper & mushroom. Or I've just laid prosciutto, and upon completion add baby arugula and a little aged balsamic vinegar.

Depending on the oven, I do it right on the rack at 425 for 18 minutes. I'm going to try it a tad hotter--450 maybe--with less time to get that crunch I'm craving!

tjr wrote:Is 6-in-1 not available anymore?

I have been searching for the 28oz cans for years now. I have found the large food service-sized cans at Mariano's, but it's been two-three years since I've seen the 28ozers. Pretty much any and every store I go to, I check to see them. In the meantime, I've done well with the Cento All-In-Ones.

tjr wrote:The Cooks Country magazine combines an interview with Rose of Vito and Nick's, the pizza recipe, and an article and recipe on sweet Italian sausage as made on the TV show. The interview provided a history of the restaurant and a little more info about how they make pizza:

One thing that's different, at least with Vito & Nick's, is that they use milk in their dough, based on the video from Diners, Drive-ins, and Dives years ago. I also kind of quibble at how crispy Chicago thin crust is supposed to be. Most I've had is not cracker crispy. It does tend to get a little soft around the middle of the pizza. While not easily foldable, it's also not brittle.

jnm123 wrote:Depending on the oven, I do it right on the rack at 425 for 18 minutes. I'm going to try it a tad hotter--450 maybe--with less time to get that crunch I'm craving!

I think all pizza doughs benefit from a little charring. Are you getting any charring at 425 ?

Hi,

The Kenji method definitely in the cracker crunch category.

The ATK is akin to Vito and Nicks, it is definitely crispy but not crackery.

Both pizzas cooked on a steel plate on the bottom rack in an oven preheated to 500 degrees at least 45 minutes in advance.

Regards,
Cathy2

Cathy, please post specs and your opinions on your steel plate. Thanks!

lougord99 wrote:

jnm123 wrote:Depending on the oven, I do it right on the rack at 425 for 18 minutes. I'm going to try it a tad hotter--450 maybe--with less time to get that crunch I'm craving!

I think all pizza doughs benefit from a little charring. Are you getting any charring at 425 ?

That's the point. At 425 I'm not. But I don't want to burn the sh*t out of the other ingredients either. Also, I'll be using a different, older, smaller oven so I think maybe 7 min at 425, 7 at 450.

Cathy2 wrote:Tomorrow, I will cook a pizza using the ATK dough cured to Kenji's style, using Kenji sauce, six-ounces cheese, Poeta's sauce and a scattering of onion, pepper and mushrooms.

This pizza was not substantially different that our pizza the day before when it came to texture. It was crisp, though not crispy-crisp as the Kenji version.

I did cure the dough overnight, so it made sliding onto the metal plate easy or even too easy. I tend to put these pizzas on parchment using any oversized pizza pan as my peel. When I rolled the pizza onto the steel, it flew off the parchment, too. I could still rotate it as necessary.

I do like this dough curing process, because it was immediately ready to be dressed. If you were having a pizza party, rolling out dough is one less detail to handle at cook time.

I plan to do both pizza styles side-by-side for family to get their thoughts. I like both, though I think the ATK is easier on the teeth and closer to Vito and Nick's.

Regards,
Cathy2