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Per Se NYC, but better?

Per Se NYC, but better?
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  • Per Se NYC, but better?

    Post #1 - July 18th, 2008, 7:59 pm
    Post #1 - July 18th, 2008, 7:59 pm Post #1 - July 18th, 2008, 7:59 pm
    I am taking my best friend, also my divorce lawyer, to New York in celebration of her hard work and my final decree. We have dined at some of the "finest" dining establishments here and in our travels. I, unlike her, am not a fan of food science projects. Moto and Alinea are O.K., but give me Trotters, Tru, pre-closing Schwa, or Spiaggia instead. I am looking for a great dining experience in New York. We are staying in Midtown but will travel. I am intrigued by Per Se and Keller's talent, but I am worried that I will be disappointed. A $275 tasting menu per person plus wine means I'm laying down close to $1000 for dinner. Is it worth it? If it is, I don't care about the cash...it's once in a lifetime. If it's not, I'll be feeling sad and duped. I've done some substantial research and am looking for a special evening that is uniquely New York. We don't have great Portuguese in Chicago, but I find nothing special on that front in NYC (unlike Montreal, where I had a great Portuguese fine dining experience). Batali's Babbo strikes me as maybe more hype than taste. Am I wrong? So, LTH friends...I beg for your help. Thanks.
  • Post #2 - July 18th, 2008, 9:03 pm
    Post #2 - July 18th, 2008, 9:03 pm Post #2 - July 18th, 2008, 9:03 pm
    Babbo isn't hype, and isn't quite at those stratospheric pricing levels either.
    It's not going to be food-as-toys like you'll get at an Alinea/Moto-style place, it's high quality food done respectfully: no piles, no papers, foams or gels.
    What is patriotism, but the love of good things we ate in our childhood?
    -- Lin Yutang
  • Post #3 - July 19th, 2008, 7:26 am
    Post #3 - July 19th, 2008, 7:26 am Post #3 - July 19th, 2008, 7:26 am
    My last meal at Babbo was not nearly as good as my first meal there. The last really good meal I had in NYC was at Eleven Madison Park. It was about $85 a person for food ( web site here: http://www.elevenmadisonpark.com/ ) and a really good dining experience. It's owned by the same people that own Grammercy and Union Square. That being said, I think Per Se (although I have never dined there) probably would not disappoint. I also really enjoyed my last meal at Le Bernardin.
  • Post #4 - July 19th, 2008, 4:05 pm
    Post #4 - July 19th, 2008, 4:05 pm Post #4 - July 19th, 2008, 4:05 pm
    CTB wrote:I am taking my best friend, also my divorce lawyer....

    I am intrigued by Per Se and Keller's talent, but I am worried that I will be disappointed. A $275 tasting menu per person plus wine means I'm laying down close to $1000 for dinner. Is it worth it?

    I...am looking for a special evening that is uniquely New York. Thanks.


    I'd suggest Gray's Papaya and bring along the ex. That way you can splurge without taking that risk.
  • Post #5 - July 19th, 2008, 6:02 pm
    Post #5 - July 19th, 2008, 6:02 pm Post #5 - July 19th, 2008, 6:02 pm
    Thanks for the advice. And, I guess that I should clarify: Best friend and lawyer are the same person. So, Tim, as much as I love the fast food stomping ground of Tony Bourdain, no need to go that cheap. I am reconsidering Babbo. Any other advice is welcome.
  • Post #6 - July 20th, 2008, 9:38 am
    Post #6 - July 20th, 2008, 9:38 am Post #6 - July 20th, 2008, 9:38 am
    I second deesher's suggestion for 11 Madison Park. My girlfriend and I dined there last month and really enjoyed it. It's nearly exactly the type of food you seem to be searching for. If you're interested in Per Se, you need to start thinking about making those reservations 2 months in advance or you'll have to get really lucky... :|
  • Post #7 - July 21st, 2008, 1:11 pm
    Post #7 - July 21st, 2008, 1:11 pm Post #7 - July 21st, 2008, 1:11 pm
    I was lucky enough to win a bet and collect a free dinner at French Laundry last week. Dinner was fantastic, a great experience. Sorry no pictures-MsRev wouldn't allow it since we weren't paying. We were there for 4 hours and each course was better than the previous. Had I been paying, the bill would've been quite painful but I wouldn't have felt cheated by the experience. The service is perfect. They showed us the kitchen afterward and it was interesting that they had a live monitor of the kitchen of Per Se. If you can get a reservation, I highly recommend it. My friend used the concierge service offered by the AmEx Platinum card. They asked him for 3 dates and obviously came thru with flying colors.
  • Post #8 - July 21st, 2008, 4:01 pm
    Post #8 - July 21st, 2008, 4:01 pm Post #8 - July 21st, 2008, 4:01 pm
    I thought Per Se was wonderful. But you have to be in the mood for that sort of thing. It's not casual, it's an event :)
    Leek

    SAVING ONE DOG may not change the world,
    but it CHANGES THE WORLD for that one dog.
    American Brittany Rescue always needs foster homes. Please think about helping that one dog. http://www.americanbrittanyrescue.org
  • Post #9 - July 22nd, 2008, 8:35 am
    Post #9 - July 22nd, 2008, 8:35 am Post #9 - July 22nd, 2008, 8:35 am
    Babbo really is a uniquely New York experience to me...the energy of the place is infectious - though it may not be for everyone. Last time I was there, we ordered the pasta tasting menu paired with wine, which I thought was perfectly decadent, rustic, and delicately constructed - my wife thought it was overkill. No portion was small, and every glass was generously poured. All the while, the Rolling Stones, Kings of Leon, and Radiohead were playing in the background at a slightly-loud-for-dinner volume. I felt the experience was akin to being in Batali's clogs for a couple hours at the beginning of a raucous Saturday night.
  • Post #10 - July 22nd, 2008, 11:23 am
    Post #10 - July 22nd, 2008, 11:23 am Post #10 - July 22nd, 2008, 11:23 am
    Funny, I didn't even notice the music at Babbo. What I did notice was the group of 4 girls (college? just post? interns?) sitting at the table next to us, dressed nicely, and spending a great deal of time texting on their cell phones the entire time. Not all texting: one would text, then the others would look at her phone, then they would discuss, and then another text would come/go...
    Leek

    SAVING ONE DOG may not change the world,
    but it CHANGES THE WORLD for that one dog.
    American Brittany Rescue always needs foster homes. Please think about helping that one dog. http://www.americanbrittanyrescue.org
  • Post #11 - July 22nd, 2008, 12:20 pm
    Post #11 - July 22nd, 2008, 12:20 pm Post #11 - July 22nd, 2008, 12:20 pm
    CTB - hoping to chime in but also to add another element regarding Babbo - the sommelier - that made an outstanding meal truly exceptional.

    Mrs. Davooda and I dined at Babbo in July 2006 with another couple and it was the one dining experience, from our perspective, that was unique to the city. I could probably look up in my notes (if I could find them) everything we ordered but the menu has more than likely changed many times since then. Suffice it to say we each had a different starter, the entrees were either red meat or fish (the Osso Bucco was the best I've ever had) and the wine the sommelier suggested was a red from the northernmost region of Italy near the alps. I didn't think it possible but this wine complemented every dish we were served - and we had a great variety of dishes.

    So - I thought a sommelier providing that level of expertise was worth mentioning. As I recall the wine list was representational of Italy with offerings at nearly every price point.

    Hope you have a great celebratory meal!

    Davooda
    Life is a garden, Dude - DIG IT!
    -- anonymous Colorado snowboarder whizzing past me March 2010
  • Post #12 - July 24th, 2008, 9:54 am
    Post #12 - July 24th, 2008, 9:54 am Post #12 - July 24th, 2008, 9:54 am
    I lived in NYC for a while and was lucky enough to experience some really good food in NYC. My one regret, was not experiencing Per Se. I've read a lot about Thomas Keller, through books, articles, tv, etc. and personally feel like you cannot go wrong if you eat there.

    Babbo - one of the better meals I've had in NY. I would recommend the pasta tasting menu, with wine, so you can sample some of the more popular meals and not just get one dish.

    Another place, I regret is Masa. As well, I've done a lot of research on this place and everything I have read about this place is that it's spot on. But, you have to be open to eating nearly anything that you are given, so if you are picky this one is out for you.
  • Post #13 - July 27th, 2008, 9:00 pm
    Post #13 - July 27th, 2008, 9:00 pm Post #13 - July 27th, 2008, 9:00 pm
    I spent a year in New York and the two best meals that I had there were at Per Se. It was fantastic (never visited the French Laundry). My third meal wasn't quite as good (although it was excellent) - the problem was that by then the house was aware of my blog and they kept on bringing extras (it is a tough life, I know!), but the effect was to disrupt the rhythm of the meal - too much food, so that by the end we were overfed. But the first two meals were extragently wonderful.

    My meal at Babbo was good, but rather hit-and-miss. The restaurant was loud and crowded. A lot of energy to be sure, but not conducing to thinking about what you are eating. Pasta was, not surprisingly, very good. The meal at Babbo was far better to the disappointments at Lupa and Otto.
    Toast, as every breakfaster knows, isn't really about the quality of the bread or how it's sliced or even the toaster. For man cannot live by toast alone. It's all about the butter. -- Adam Gopnik
  • Post #14 - July 28th, 2008, 7:59 pm
    Post #14 - July 28th, 2008, 7:59 pm Post #14 - July 28th, 2008, 7:59 pm
    Thanks for all the great advice. I ran options by my friend and we settled on Eleven Madison Park. I'll let you know about the meal when we return.
  • Post #15 - July 28th, 2008, 8:37 pm
    Post #15 - July 28th, 2008, 8:37 pm Post #15 - July 28th, 2008, 8:37 pm
    Terrific choice. My two best meals were at Per Se, but my third best was at 11 Mad - at about 1/3 the price. Daniel Humm is a brilliant chef (although not the culinary theorist that Thomas Keller is), and because 11 Mad is part of Danny Meyer's group the service is friendly, charming, and impeccable.

    Eleven Madison Park review
    Toast, as every breakfaster knows, isn't really about the quality of the bread or how it's sliced or even the toaster. For man cannot live by toast alone. It's all about the butter. -- Adam Gopnik
  • Post #16 - July 29th, 2008, 10:11 am
    Post #16 - July 29th, 2008, 10:11 am Post #16 - July 29th, 2008, 10:11 am
    The meal at Babbo was far better to the disappointments at Lupa and Otto.


    What a bummer about Otto, it's one of my favorites for good/cheaper dining in NY.
  • Post #17 - July 29th, 2008, 11:07 am
    Post #17 - July 29th, 2008, 11:07 am Post #17 - July 29th, 2008, 11:07 am
    Don't trust me. It might still be great for you and disappointing for me. Who can judge taste?
    Toast, as every breakfaster knows, isn't really about the quality of the bread or how it's sliced or even the toaster. For man cannot live by toast alone. It's all about the butter. -- Adam Gopnik
  • Post #18 - August 1st, 2008, 10:41 am
    Post #18 - August 1st, 2008, 10:41 am Post #18 - August 1st, 2008, 10:41 am
    I don't think you'll be disappointed at Per Se, they're way too good for that. 'Is it worth it?' might be most people's question. Even if you can afford it- if the money is in your thoughts with every bite, it'll spoil the palette. Can you find better? That's relative. But in my mind, it's a dinner that, if you have the means, must be experienced. The food is in no way 'scientific' or so experimental to be weird. Every speck of food shines as the best possible example of its ingredients.

    Per Se's Oysters and pearls
    Image

    The food also shines because each table is designed with a perfect soft spot light at each setting.

    Babbo has been mentioned (haven't eaten there) but nobody's mentioned Del Posto, Batali's over the top, highest end restaurant. I often hear it as a choice between it and Per Se. I was slightly dissappointed there - indifferent service, and at prices lower than Per Se - but with Secondi choices in the hundreds and a $175 tasting, you'd expect the food to blow you away. While purely enjoyable, none of it was as memorable as the bill.

    Also for the openness and immensity of Del Posto's space (other tables seem miles away) it seemed we were put at a table in one of the darkest corners of lower Manhattan. My attempt at shooting the food resulted in dark featureless lumps. I should note that we had the wine tasting too - and they are a very generous pour - for the price you'll drink all you want - or get as drunk as you want. The meal at Per Se moves along at too orchestrated a pace to get too many glasses of the same thing (that's not to say fast - just that things move along).

    I loved 11 Madison Park, and it's a great choice, but I wouldn't call it in a choice between it and Per Se.
    The bouillabaisse from 11 Madison Park.
    Image

    The free lolilops after dinner.
    Image
  • Post #19 - August 26th, 2008, 8:13 pm
    Post #19 - August 26th, 2008, 8:13 pm Post #19 - August 26th, 2008, 8:13 pm
    Revisited Babbo, and yes, the music was loud. Zeppelin? Whatever :)
    Leek

    SAVING ONE DOG may not change the world,
    but it CHANGES THE WORLD for that one dog.
    American Brittany Rescue always needs foster homes. Please think about helping that one dog. http://www.americanbrittanyrescue.org
  • Post #20 - March 12th, 2011, 11:30 pm
    Post #20 - March 12th, 2011, 11:30 pm Post #20 - March 12th, 2011, 11:30 pm
    Mario Luxe – Del Posto – New York

    I have been dilatory in posting on my December meal at Del Posto. Yes, the pictures have been on my Flickr account, but I felt that there was not much to say. Perhaps I was blinded by all the glitz.

    Although I take some real, if perverse, delight in not admiring Mario Batali’s collection of restaurants (I had a mediocre meal at Otto, a worse meal meal at Lupa, and a loud if satisfying one at Babbo). But I must confess that I enjoyed my meal at Del Posto. OK, I didn’t love it Sam Sifton Four-Stars-Worth, but certainly three stars. It is just that most of the dishes were not quite memorable. But my photographs demand their price, although if I really was into luxe I would have focused on the décor. But, in truth, the elegance didn't add to the experience. It proclaimed that food was not the only concern of the night.

    First, let it be said that service our night and at our table was helpful and graceful, and so that contributed to a happy evening, something that has not always been the case at Batali restaurants.

    Del Posto’s cuisine is always extravagant, often not well-composed, but at its best it is flavorful and powerful, an Italian cuisine that is merged with novel ingredients.

    Roasted Autumn Vegetables with Robiola Sformato and Truffled Hazelnuts. Although not a particularly attractive plate - it was a bit of a mess, the vegetables had a lot of flavor.

    Image
    Del Posto - New York December 2010 - Roasted Autumn Vegetables with Robiola Sformato and Truffled Hazelnuts by garyalanfine, on Flickr

    Lobster Sald Fra Diavola with Broccoli Rabe and Dried Orange. Of the two lobster dishes (one for me, one for my wife) this was the less successful. Too spicy and too little orange.

    Image
    Del Posto - New York December 2010 - Lobster Sald Fra Diavola with Broccoli Rabe and Dried Orange by garyalanfine, on Flickr

    Whole Wheat Tonnarelli with Spicy Cicerchie, Fried Rosemary, and Shaved Bonito An interesting pasta combination. It was thoughtful dish with unexpected flavor notes. Again not striking in the bowl.

    Image
    Del Posto - New York December 2010 - Whole Wheat Tonnarelli with Spicy Cicerchie, Fried Rosemary, and Shaved Bonito by garyalanfine, on Flickr

    Agnolotti with Lambrusco. I found this simple dish the most evocative of the night. Thoroughly delicious. It is the one dish that I truly remember and would love to taste again.

    Image
    Del Posto - New York December 2010 - Agnolotti with Lambrusco by garyalanfine, on Flickr

    Wood-Grilled Lobster with Artichokes, Almonds and Basil. A nice combination of ingredients. Not a brilliant dish, but enjoyable.

    Image
    Del Posto - New York December 2010 - Wood-Grilled Lobster with Artichokes, Almonds and Basil by garyalanfine, on Flickr

    Seared Duck Breast, Apician Spices and Lovage. The duck was cooked more than I prefer, but the spices were an excellent counterpoint with the poultry.

    Image
    Del Posto - New York December 2010 - Seared Duck Breast, Apician Spices and Lovage by garyalanfine, on Flickr

    Butterscotch Semifreddo. Del Posto nods to modernist cuisine. Certainly the prettiest dish of the night with all the right sweet notes.

    Image
    Del Posto - New York December 2010 - Butterscotch Semifreddo by garyalanfine, on Flickr

    Del Posto
    85 10th Avenue
    New York, New York 10011
    212-497-8090
    http://www.delposto.com/home.htm
    Toast, as every breakfaster knows, isn't really about the quality of the bread or how it's sliced or even the toaster. For man cannot live by toast alone. It's all about the butter. -- Adam Gopnik
  • Post #21 - March 13th, 2011, 1:17 am
    Post #21 - March 13th, 2011, 1:17 am Post #21 - March 13th, 2011, 1:17 am
    GAF wrote:
    Lobster Sald Fra Diavola with Broccoli Rabe and Dried Orange. Of the two lobster dishes (one for me, one for my wife) this was the less successful. Too spicy and too little orange.

    Image
    Del Posto - New York December 2010 - Lobster Sald Fra Diavola with Broccoli Rabe and Dried Orange by garyalanfine, on Flickr



    I had this dish (or one very like it) last November as part of the $29, 3-course lunch prix fixe, which I thought was a very good value. My friend tabbed this sauce as being a tad too McRib. I thought that was a little harsh, but I did not think this dish very good.

    GAF wrote:Whole Wheat Tonnarelli with Spicy Cicerchie, Fried Rosemary, and Shaved Bonito An interesting pasta combination. It was thoughtful dish with unexpected flavor notes. Again not striking in the bowl.

    Image
    Del Posto - New York December 2010 - Whole Wheat Tonnarelli with Spicy Cicerchie, Fried Rosemary, and Shaved Bonito by garyalanfine, on Flickr


    I really enjoyed this dish also. It was an innovative flavor combination. The subtle bonito smokiness complemented the earthiness of the whole wheat pasta.

    We tried many of the same dishes. While the roasted autumn vegetables may not have been the prettiest plate, but it was jam packed with flavor. The tastes were so distinct and potent that this dish really was a benchmark for root vegetables as perfectly roasted nibs of Fall.

    We also enjoyed the cottechino with lentils and dried fruit mostarda. And the spezzata di castagne with plum Macedonia and yogurt gelato were truly memorable in a weekend of memorable food. Lastly, some of the best bites were the amuses: fried proscriutto and escarole balls (arrancini?) and capon soup with egg and powdered parsley (more photos and descriptions here).

    In addition to all this, was very good bread service with whipped lardo as an option in addition to room temperature butter.

    I will happily return to Del Posto based on the lunch meal I had.
  • Post #22 - March 13th, 2011, 9:02 am
    Post #22 - March 13th, 2011, 9:02 am Post #22 - March 13th, 2011, 9:02 am
    gastro gnome wrote:We also enjoyed the cottechino with lentils and dried fruit mostarda.
    That cotechino was exactly what all cotechino should taste like - porky, with just minor undertones of nutmeg, with a rich texture from all of the pork skin. Every cottechino I've had since has measured against Del Posto's (including the particularly-disappointing grilled cottechino in hog casing at Maude's).

    A brief call out to the bass with radicchio, bagna cauda and campari - not everyone would serve fish with such striking and strong elements, but I love bitter, campari, and anchovies, and it worked for me.

    -Dan
  • Post #23 - April 11th, 2021, 8:15 pm
    Post #23 - April 11th, 2021, 8:15 pm Post #23 - April 11th, 2021, 8:15 pm
    GAF wrote:Mario Luxe – Del Posto – New York

    I have been dilatory in posting on my December meal at Del Posto. Yes, the pictures have been on my Flickr account, but I felt that there was not much to say. Perhaps I was blinded by all the glitz.

    Although I take some real, if perverse, delight in not admiring Mario Batali’s collection of restaurants (I had a mediocre meal at Otto, a worse meal meal at Lupa, and a loud if satisfying one at Babbo). But I must confess that I enjoyed my meal at Del Posto. OK, I didn’t love it Sam Sifton Four-Stars-Worth, but certainly three stars. It is just that most of the dishes were not quite memorable. But my photographs demand their price, although if I really was into luxe I would have focused on the décor. But, in truth, the elegance didn't add to the experience. It proclaimed that food was not the only concern of the night.

    First, let it be said that service our night and at our table was helpful and graceful, and so that contributed to a happy evening, something that has not always been the case at Batali restaurants.

    Del Posto’s cuisine is always extravagant, often not well-composed, but at its best it is flavorful and powerful, an Italian cuisine that is merged with novel ingredients.

    Roasted Autumn Vegetables with Robiola Sformato and Truffled Hazelnuts. Although not a particularly attractive plate - it was a bit of a mess, the vegetables had a lot of flavor.

    Image
    Del Posto - New York December 2010 - Roasted Autumn Vegetables with Robiola Sformato and Truffled Hazelnuts by garyalanfine, on Flickr

    Lobster Sald Fra Diavola with Broccoli Rabe and Dried Orange. Of the two lobster dishes (one for me, one for my wife) this was the less successful. Too spicy and too little orange.

    Image
    Del Posto - New York December 2010 - Lobster Sald Fra Diavola with Broccoli Rabe and Dried Orange by garyalanfine, on Flickr

    Whole Wheat Tonnarelli with Spicy Cicerchie, Fried Rosemary, and Shaved Bonito An interesting pasta combination. It was thoughtful dish with unexpected flavor notes. Again not striking in the bowl.

    Image
    Del Posto - New York December 2010 - Whole Wheat Tonnarelli with Spicy Cicerchie, Fried Rosemary, and Shaved Bonito by garyalanfine, on Flickr

    Agnolotti with Lambrusco. I found this simple dish the most evocative of the night. Thoroughly delicious. It is the one dish that I truly remember and would love to taste again.

    Image
    Del Posto - New York December 2010 - Agnolotti with Lambrusco by garyalanfine, on Flickr

    Wood-Grilled Lobster with Artichokes, Almonds and Basil. A nice combination of ingredients. Not a brilliant dish, but enjoyable.

    Image
    Del Posto - New York December 2010 - Wood-Grilled Lobster with Artichokes, Almonds and Basil by garyalanfine, on Flickr

    Seared Duck Breast, Apician Spices and Lovage. The duck was cooked more than I prefer, but the spices were an excellent counterpoint with the poultry.

    Image
    Del Posto - New York December 2010 - Seared Duck Breast, Apician Spices and Lovage by garyalanfine, on Flickr

    Butterscotch Semifreddo. Del Posto nods to modernist cuisine. Certainly the prettiest dish of the night with all the right sweet notes.

    Image
    Del Posto - New York December 2010 - Butterscotch Semifreddo by garyalanfine, on Flickr

    Del Posto
    85 10th Avenue
    New York, New York 10011
    212-497-8090
    http://www.delposto.com/home.htm

    Del Posto, the Lauded Italian Restaurant, Will Permanently Close
    Its executive chef, Melissa J. Rodriguez, has purchased the restaurant with a group of investors, with plans to open a similarly ambitious Italian restaurant.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/11/dini ... losed.html
    Never order barbecue in a place that also serves quiche - Lewis Grizzard

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