XLB@456 in NYC - Tried 'Em?

In the NYT recently, a new place in Chinatown, Manhattan is recommended for XLB. It is 456 Shanghai Cuisine at 69 Mott St.
Anyone been? Just posting this as a heads up for anyone on a day trip to NYC that has no time to get out to Queens to PIGMON's finds.

I've done the Queens XLB thing, but I'll be out to NYC twice this fall (one trip will be spent mostly in Brooklyn). If I'm around, I'll give it a shot.

I don't think the soup dumplings in Flushing are trip-worthy if you won't be in the neighborhood. The ones I had at Nan Xiang in Flushing, purportedly the city's best, were only marginally better than some I've had in Manhattan's Chinatown, namely at New Green Bo, Shanghai Cafe and Joe's Ginger.

I will have to check 456 out sometime.

Habibi wrote:I don't think the soup dumplings in Flushing are trip-worthy if you won't be in the neighborhood. The ones I had at Nan Xiang in Flushing, purportedly the city's best, were only marginally better than some I've had in Manhattan's Chinatown, namely at New Green Bo, Shanghai Cafe and Joe's Ginger.

I will have to check 456 out sometime.

....so you prefer Joe's Ginger to the original Joe's? Good to know as it is much easier to get into, in my experience. Is the Midtown Joe's as much a disappointment as I've heard?

Yeah, the Midtown Joe's sucks. Don't go. Go to Wu Liang Ye for Szechuan on 48th instead.

I really like Joe's Ginger, but I may be in the minority here. I've always thought the broth was pleasantly fatty and the crab flavor prominent.

Still, I think the best XLB (in Manhattan) I've had are probably at Shanghai Cafe, which can also be a bitch to get into.

Don't get me wrong, the XLB at Nan Xiang in Flushing are excellent, but I'm not sure they are trip worthy on their own. Of course, if you make it downt to Flushing there are a plethora of Chinese restaurants as well as food courts that make the trip worthwhile.

I've been to Shanghai Cafe 4-5 times now and never had much of a wait. Certainly much easier to get into than New Green Bo.

(The other reason I prefer it to NGB is that I haven't found much else particularly great at the latter other than the xiao long bao, whereas Shanghai Cafe has several other worthy dishes.)

Agreed. Shanghai Cafe has some seriously good dishes other than XLB, including stir fried rice cakes (excellent wok hay) and spicy beef noodle soup. S&P shrimp ain't bad either.

Try the fried whole yellow croaker, too.

Yeah, so 456 is pretty dang good.

The xiao long bao had a slightly gummy texture (a problem shared by most of the NY Chinatown xiao long bao), but the filling was extremely flavorful and delicious. (I can only speak of the pork + crab version.) And the yellow croaker in tofu skin (these are the large platters of mysterious oblong deep-fried objects that every table is getting) was also excellent.

I'd happily go back.

The XLB at 456 were decent but felt way too small, and also under-soup-ed. The meat to soup ratio seemed really off to me. I wanted there to be more soup and less meat inside the dumpling. The soup itself felt a little under-seasoned and less flavorful than, say, Nan Xiang, although it had the lightness of Nan Xiang. Better than average and not too heavy but I'd pass on these a second time. We actually LOVED their fried tiny buns (sheng jian bao) much more.

My go-to place for XLB is Shanghai Asian Cuisine on Elizabeth Street. Don't be fooled by the nondescript, coffee shop vibe-- you'll find some really satisfying dumplings. They're not as delicate looking as Nan Jian, but the skin is pleasantly chewy and (to my taste, at least) the broth is the richest and most flavorful of any I've tried. On some days, the pork could use a bit more spice but overall, they're the best soup dumplings I've found outside of Queens.

Shanghai Asian Cuisine
14 Elizabeth St
(between Bayard St & Canal St)

Paul SL wrote:My go-to place for XLB is Shanghai Asian Cuisine on Elizabeth Street. Don't be fooled by the nondescript, coffee shop vibe-- you'll find some really satisfying dumplings. They're not as delicate looking as Nan Jian, but the skin is pleasantly chewy and (to my taste, at least) the broth is the richest and most flavorful of any I've tried. On some days, the pork could use a bit more spice but overall, they're the best soup dumplings I've found outside of Queens.

Shanghai Asian Cuisine
14 Elizabeth St
(between Bayard St & Canal St)

"Chewy" skins? Sounds suspect to me.

A proper XLB should have perilously thin skins that aren't doughy, with a good amount of soup that isn't too heavy or greasy. Most XLB in NYC are more oily because they are copying Joe's Shanghai.

kathryn wrote:
"Chewy" skins? Sounds suspect to me.

A proper XLB should have perilously thin skins that aren't doughy, with a good amount of soup that isn't too heavy or greasy. Most XLB in NYC are more oily because they are copying Joe's Shanghai.

Sigh... I may have been imprecise. Perhaps I might have described the skins as "toothsome," "slightly springy" or the all-purpose "spot-on."
The only thing I find perilous about XLB is biting into one, burning my tongue and then dribbling the broth down my shirt.

Practice does make perfect! Practice until your XLB eating technique is unstoppable!

My SO and I checked out Shanghai 456 after that article in the NYT came out. I thought the XLB were better than Joe's Shanghai (admittedly, I'm not a fan of Joe's) but still not as good as Nan Xiang in Flushing. We also got the sautéed baby eggplants in garlic sauce and Steak Chinese, both of which were good but not mind-blowing.

The evening that we went, there was a pretty serious crowd out of the front door beginning around 5:30 and getting even deeper by the time we left the restaurant. I haven't been back in the past month to see if the attention has died down.

A few Sundays ago around 6pm we had a short wait for a table, and they were doing a brisk business even when we left. I imagine it's still pretty popular.

Their fried tiny buns (sheng jian bao) are worth the return trip.

Had a wonderful lunch of crab/pork soup dumplings, shrimp with ginger and scallion and braised noodles with veggies. The XLB were great but I'm not convinced that they are better than the ones at, say, Shanghai Cafe. Good place though, and didn't seem as crowded as some of the other XLB stalwarts.

Returned yesterday with a group of friends. They declared the XLB their favorite in the city, and I was completely in love with the fried yellow croaker with bean curd skin - an embarrassingly large plate of delicate pieces of fish wrapped in bean curd and fried to perfection. Doused with 456's excellent chili oil, this was the star of the show. Eggplant w/ garlic sauce wasn't too shabby either.

One complaint - and this is one that I can lodge against nearly every Chinese restaurant I've been too - the godamn beer is never cold enough! Tsing Tao isn't a great beer, but its perfectly drinkable when ice cold. I've yet to find a Chinese restaurant that can figure out how to properly refrigerate beer.

Habibi--

Interesting point about the beer. I can offer a few observations about the cultural history/background that might help explain what's going on.

Beer was brought to China by both British and German colonizers. Obviously the ale vs. lager traditions conflicted with each other. For the most part, Chinese brewing tilted toward German styles, but, curiously enough, British sizing: Chinese beer, traditionally, has been available in half-pint (10 oz. American) and pint (20 oz. American) bottles. The custom was that, as a Chinese worker got more and more affluent, he could buy a bottle after work and take it home to consume. Obviously refrigeration was sparse in these days.

(I should mention that my observations are limited by the fact that I lived in China in '86, and revisited for a lengthy time in '88. Things have changed enormously since then, but I can't imagine that mentalités have changed that much!)

I visited a number of Chinese breweries, and talked to a whole bunch of techie folks, most esp. a retired East German braumeister who'd been hired by the Wuhan Brewery to run their beer operation. So I have a pretty clear idea about how beer and brewing were situated, both technically and culturally, at the dawn of the 'New China.'

Bottom line, Chinese have never become used to drinking beer in the "coldest beer in town, chilled mug" tradition that we're so used to, especially in the MidWest. Moreover, because of the limited availabilty of refrigeration during the era when beer began to be popular in China, there was never any exposure to our American [and it IS American--no one else in the world (except maybe Oz) chills beer like we do] penchant for ice-cold beer.

On the way home, hanging from the sack on the handlebars, the beer warmed up just a bit. And that's what beer drinkers got used to!


Geo

Habibi wrote:I really like Joe's Ginger, but I may be in the minority here. I've always thought the broth was pleasantly fatty and the crab flavor prominent.

I really enjoyed the crab & pork XLB at Joe's Ginger...translucently thin skin, a good tablespoon or so of crab meat in each dumpling lending its brininess to the pork broth. They were so light and delicate, I could've eaten all eight on my own. Great stuff, and, in my opinion, a perfectly respectable way to lose my xiao long bao v-card

The pork-only ones, however, I wasn't so pleased with...thicker, more chewy skin, and not quite so satisfying without the crab flavor. Because of the extra doughiness, I ate two and felt stuffed.

Also had the house fried rice, which was nothing to write home about but had some really prominent & phenomenal wok hay, and Joe's ginger shrimp, which was just alright. And also some not-quite-ice-cold Tsing Tao...I took my first sip, and chuckled because I immediately thought of your comments from upthread.

Still, for the delicious crab & pork XLB, and the fact that we were able to stroll past the mob scene in front of Joe's Shanghai and immediately get seated, I was totally down with Joe's Ginger.

Geo wrote: Moreover, because of the limited availabilty of refrigeration during the era when beer began to be popular in China, there was never any exposure to our American [and it IS American--no one else in the world (except maybe Oz) chills beer like we do] penchant for ice-cold beer.

On the way home, hanging from the sack on the handlebars, the beer warmed up just a bit. And that's what beer drinkers got used to!


Geo

That's fascinating- in China talking mass-brewing in the late 80's sounds like a good book premise. I would add a twist and agree that ice cold brew is American in the braoder, more correct sense past US borders. Canada, sure, but around South America and the Caribbean, cold beer is pretty common and is sometimes taken to extremes. For example, Presidente, the Dominican national beverage, is marketed as bien fria and the chest coolers are set to keep the beer cold enough that they often freeze up once opened. Tap beer on the beach in Brazil (choppe) is served remarkably cold, and Argentine temps are similar, IIRC. I've never really had a warm beer in Mexico, either, though I've mostly been in relatively tourist friendly zones. Guatemalan and Costa Rican beer - cold.

JeffB wrote:around South America and the Caribbean, cold beer is pretty common and is sometimes taken to extremes

The Rose Inn in Bonaire (Dutch Antilles)
claims that they serve the “coldiest” beer!

Khaopaat wrote:

Habibi wrote:Still, for the delicious crab & pork XLB, and the fact that we were able to stroll past the mob scene in front of Joe's Shanghai and immediately get seated, I was totally down with Joe's Ginger.

Have you tried Chinatown Brasserie or RedFarm's XLB yet?

JeffB wrote:

Geo wrote: Moreover, because of the limited availabilty of refrigeration during the era when beer began to be popular in China, there was never any exposure to our American [and it IS American--no one else in the world (except maybe Oz) chills beer like we do] penchant for ice-cold beer.

On the way home, hanging from the sack on the handlebars, the beer warmed up just a bit. And that's what beer drinkers got used to!


Geo

That's fascinating- in China talking mass-brewing in the late 80's sounds like a good book premise. I would add a twist and agree that ice cold brew is American in the braoder, more correct sense past US borders. Canada, sure, but around South America and the Caribbean, cold beer is pretty common and is sometimes taken to extremes. For example, Presidente, the Dominican national beverage, is marketed as bien fria and the chest coolers are set to keep the beer cold enough that they often freeze up once opened. Tap beer on the beach in Brazil (choppe) is served remarkably cold, and Argentine temps are similar, IIRC. I've never really had a warm beer in Mexico, either, though I've mostly been in relatively tourist friendly zones. Guatemalan and Costa Rican beer - cold.

Similar experiences here in Cairo and Mumbai. Ice ice ice cold beer. Particularly in Cairo. Both formerly under the authority of the British, who aren't known for their love of cold beer.

kathryn wrote:

Khaopaat wrote:

Habibi wrote:Still, for the delicious crab & pork XLB, and the fact that we were able to stroll past the mob scene in front of Joe's Shanghai and immediately get seated, I was totally down with Joe's Ginger.

Have you tried Chinatown Brasserie or RedFarm's XLB yet?

Nope. And unless someone gives me a good reason to spend my money at what I've heard are over-priced, lame attempts at "upscale" Chinese food, I probably will not. My money is better spent on East Broadway than the Lower East Side.

kathryn wrote:Have you tried Chinatown Brasserie or RedFarm's XLB yet?

Unfortunately, Joe's Ginger was my only XLB experience of the trip...the rest of the weekend was spent busily stuffing my face with Central American food truck fare, lox & bagels, "secret" Japanese-inspired small plates, street fair souvlaki, and slices from one of a hundred places called "Ray's". I'm still full.

Joe Ng is the chef at both Chinatown Brasserie and Red Farm (he was previously at Wong Tong in Brooklyn's Chinatown). The dim sum and xiao long bao are excellent at both. CB also does a great peking duck. Chinatown Brasserie is in Noho and Red Farm is in the West Village. I think Chef Ng is raising the bar in Manhattan for dim sum and XLB. I think his XLB are better than 456 and Nan Xiang. I do not find it all that pricey for the quality of the dishes.

Fair enough. Will explore.

kathryn wrote:Joe Ng is the chef at both Chinatown Brasserie and Red Farm (he was previously at Wong Tong in Brooklyn's Chinatown). The dim sum and xiao long bao are excellent at both. CB also does a great peking duck. Chinatown Brasserie is in Noho and Red Farm is in the West Village. I think Chef Ng is raising the bar in Manhattan for dim sum and XLB. I think his XLB are better than 456 and Nan Xiang. I do not find it all that pricey for the quality of the dishes.

I just ate at Red Farm at their upper west side location Saturday night and everything was excellent, including the XLB. Debatable for me whether they were better than Nan Xiang's, but those are the best two versions I've ever tried.

I did not try the XLB but had a beautifully rich chicken and chestnut casserole at 456 last week. Would definitely get again and highly recommend.

No wait to get in. Seating was nicely social distanced, for those of us still worried about that.