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Intriguing no-knead bread

Intriguing no-knead bread
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  • Post #121 - February 26th, 2010, 10:55 am
    Post #121 - February 26th, 2010, 10:55 am Post #121 - February 26th, 2010, 10:55 am
    And now, again courtesy of the New York Times, here is Harold McGee on the necessity for kneading.
    Gypsy Boy

    "I am not a glutton--I am an explorer of food." (Erma Bombeck)
  • Post #122 - October 27th, 2012, 9:10 pm
    Post #122 - October 27th, 2012, 9:10 pm Post #122 - October 27th, 2012, 9:10 pm
    Hi,

    Since I was leaving the oven pilot light warm for the night to process some yogurt, I decided to do some no-knead bread too. I followed the recipe from Cook's Illustrated with beer in addition to water plus some light kneading after the first rise.

    In the morning, my bread dough had crusted over due to plastic wrap opening. It also showed no evidence of expanding. I flipped it over and hoped to see some progress later with no resulting puffiness.

    Rather than throw the dough away, I added some beer to rehydrate the crusted over part and added some yeast from a fresh package. I massaged it in and went to bed for a second night of rising.

    I baked it this morning, then set it out to cool. I left a note for my Dad to give it shot, though it was likely not very good. He loved it. He left a voicemail on my phone with his high praise. He said I could make this mistake more often. What he liked was the high crust to low interior ratio.

    Regards,
    Cathy2

    "You'll be remembered long after you're dead if you make good gravy, mashed potatoes and biscuits." -- Nathalie Dupree
    Facebook, Twitter, Greater Midwest Foodways, Road Food 2012: Podcast
  • Post #123 - October 28th, 2012, 6:59 am
    Post #123 - October 28th, 2012, 6:59 am Post #123 - October 28th, 2012, 6:59 am
    I have made the bread too after looking at the NYT recipe and getting Lahey's books from the library. Dead easy and it comes out good. What a great way to make bread.
    Toria

    "I like this place and willingly could waste my time in it" - As You Like It,
    W. Shakespeare
  • Post #124 - October 28th, 2012, 7:10 am
    Post #124 - October 28th, 2012, 7:10 am Post #124 - October 28th, 2012, 7:10 am
    I have been making this loaf once a week or so for the last three years. Here are the changes I've made.


    I make a larger loaf using

    645 grams flour. (50% WW, 50% bread flour)
    12 grams salt
    1.5 grams yeast
    525 grams water

    Mix, cover and set on the counter for 18 to 24 hours, poke a hole or two in plastic wrap cover.

    Turn out on floured counter envelope fold, reshape in boule, cover and rest 90 min.

    Flour and fold the shape into a tight skinned boule place on parchment, flour and cover for 30 min

    Score surface with super sharp knife and bake in pre-heated big covered pot (450) for 30 min
    Then remove lid and cook for 13 to 15 more (internal temp of 206 to 210). Cool on wire rack.
  • Post #125 - October 29th, 2012, 10:37 am
    Post #125 - October 29th, 2012, 10:37 am Post #125 - October 29th, 2012, 10:37 am
    I like Lahey's reguar no-knead bread just fine but for me, I think his stecca receipe is even better. I have done it plain and with olives and tomatoes and its always turned out great.

    http://steamykitchen.com/6795-no-knead- ... tecca.html
    Visit my new website at http://www.splatteredpages.com or my old one at www.eatwisconsin.com
  • Post #126 - October 30th, 2012, 5:43 pm
    Post #126 - October 30th, 2012, 5:43 pm Post #126 - October 30th, 2012, 5:43 pm
    I would love to put a mashed potato in the yeast mixture that is rising. I love potato bread. I do actually give the bread a few kneads when I am processing it for the two hour rise.
    Toria

    "I like this place and willingly could waste my time in it" - As You Like It,
    W. Shakespeare
  • Post #127 - October 30th, 2012, 5:46 pm
    Post #127 - October 30th, 2012, 5:46 pm Post #127 - October 30th, 2012, 5:46 pm
    toria wrote:I would love to put a mashed potato in the yeast mixture that is rising. I love potato bread. I do actually give the bread a few kneads when I am processing it for the two hour rise.

    The Cook's Illustrated variant suggested 15 rounds of kneading, which is pretty light for bread. I think it is there to activate the glutton in the dough for the final rise.

    Regards,
    Cathy2

    "You'll be remembered long after you're dead if you make good gravy, mashed potatoes and biscuits." -- Nathalie Dupree
    Facebook, Twitter, Greater Midwest Foodways, Road Food 2012: Podcast
  • Post #128 - October 30th, 2012, 8:04 pm
    Post #128 - October 30th, 2012, 8:04 pm Post #128 - October 30th, 2012, 8:04 pm
    Yes I agree. When I turn it out of the bowl onto a floured board, I give it a few kneads. Then I shape it and let it rise 2 hours. Its really an easy bread to make. I will experiment with the potato.
    Toria

    "I like this place and willingly could waste my time in it" - As You Like It,
    W. Shakespeare
  • Post #129 - March 11th, 2013, 11:14 am
    Post #129 - March 11th, 2013, 11:14 am Post #129 - March 11th, 2013, 11:14 am
    Image
    no knead 1/3 Rye , 1/3 whole wheat, 1/3 bread flour coated with wheat bran
    645 g flour
    12 g salt
    1.5 g yeast
    525 g water
    18 hour rise
    2 hour second rise

    30 min cover pot at 450˚
    15 min uncovered
  • Post #130 - March 13th, 2013, 9:38 am
    Post #130 - March 13th, 2013, 9:38 am Post #130 - March 13th, 2013, 9:38 am
    I don't know, can it possibly taste as good as it looks? That shot is definitely one of the Wonders of the World!
    Ava-"If you get down and out, just get in the kitchen and bake a cake."- Jean Strickland

    Horto In Urbs- Falling in love with Urban Vegetable Gardening
  • Post #131 - March 13th, 2013, 10:11 am
    Post #131 - March 13th, 2013, 10:11 am Post #131 - March 13th, 2013, 10:11 am
    pairs4life wrote:I don't know, can it possibly taste as good as it looks? That shot is definitely one of the Wonders of the World!

    Hi,

    No knead bread with its long rise time makes a very good loaf of bread. I expect Mel's bread is terrific based on my experiences with this bread baking style.

    I use the Cook's Illustrated variant with liquids of water, beer and vinegar. They also suggest kneading the bread 16 strokes after the first rise. I believe this is done to activate the gluten after its long rise.

    Regards,
    Cathy2

    "You'll be remembered long after you're dead if you make good gravy, mashed potatoes and biscuits." -- Nathalie Dupree
    Facebook, Twitter, Greater Midwest Foodways, Road Food 2012: Podcast
  • Post #132 - March 13th, 2013, 2:25 pm
    Post #132 - March 13th, 2013, 2:25 pm Post #132 - March 13th, 2013, 2:25 pm
    Cathy2 wrote:
    pairs4life wrote:I don't know, can it possibly taste as good as it looks? That shot is definitely one of the Wonders of the World!

    Hi,

    No knead bread with its long rise time makes a very good loaf of bread. I expect Mel's bread is terrific based on my experiences with this bread baking style.

    I use the Cook's Illustrated variant with liquids of water, beer and vinegar. They also suggest kneading the bread 16 strokes after the first rise. I believe this is done to activate the gluten after its long rise.

    Regards,


    Agreed. I use the CI variant as well. It was my 1st success with bread. I brought 3 loaves to the picnic a couple of years ago with jam. I baked this loaf with home-cured olives the other night.
    Ava-"If you get down and out, just get in the kitchen and bake a cake."- Jean Strickland

    Horto In Urbs- Falling in love with Urban Vegetable Gardening
  • Post #133 - September 25th, 2013, 9:36 am
    Post #133 - September 25th, 2013, 9:36 am Post #133 - September 25th, 2013, 9:36 am
    Image
    today's loaf
    I made the dough yesterday
  • Post #134 - March 20th, 2014, 11:56 am
    Post #134 - March 20th, 2014, 11:56 am Post #134 - March 20th, 2014, 11:56 am
    Updates on this terrific bread:

    Yesterday's Chicago Tribune had an article on sourdough no knead bread by Robin Mather with the recipe by Karen Keb Will.

    Both women have been judges for the Family Heirloom Recipe Contest at the Kansas State Fair on behalf of Greater Midwest Foodways Alliance.

    ***

    Cook's Illustrated has modified how to bake no knead bread. Instead of preheating the oven and Dutch oven for 30 minutes, you begin by placing your bread dough in the Dutch oven with the lid on into a cold oven.

    Adjust temperature to 425 degrees, once it reaches temperature then set your timer for 30 minutes.

    At 30 minutes, remove the lid. Set your timer for an additional 25-30 minutes.

    At 55-60 minutes, you may pull the bread if it has an internal temperature of 200 degrees. (I simply pull mine at 60 minutes)

    I never really enjoyed lowering bread dough into a hot Dutch oven. So this amendment to their process is welcome to me.

    Regards,
    Cathy2

    "You'll be remembered long after you're dead if you make good gravy, mashed potatoes and biscuits." -- Nathalie Dupree
    Facebook, Twitter, Greater Midwest Foodways, Road Food 2012: Podcast
  • Post #135 - March 20th, 2014, 12:35 pm
    Post #135 - March 20th, 2014, 12:35 pm Post #135 - March 20th, 2014, 12:35 pm
    I do my final rise on parchment so I can use the paper to gently put the dough in the Dutch oven
  • Post #136 - March 20th, 2014, 3:45 pm
    Post #136 - March 20th, 2014, 3:45 pm Post #136 - March 20th, 2014, 3:45 pm
    mhill95149 wrote:I do my final rise on parchment so I can use the paper to gently put the dough in the Dutch oven

    I do, too. Since this revised method, I put the parchment and dough into the Dutch oven for the final rise. I don't like having to move it until it is done.

    Regards,
    Cathy2

    "You'll be remembered long after you're dead if you make good gravy, mashed potatoes and biscuits." -- Nathalie Dupree
    Facebook, Twitter, Greater Midwest Foodways, Road Food 2012: Podcast
  • Post #137 - July 13th, 2014, 11:41 am
    Post #137 - July 13th, 2014, 11:41 am Post #137 - July 13th, 2014, 11:41 am
    I've been meaning to put up this tip. On a hunch and always in search for a shortcut, I've been using Polish rye starter (żurek/zakwas) that you can find in stores that cater to Eastern Europeans like Bobak's and Shop and Save. Normally, this stuff is used to make White Borscht (Link to my thread on it here.) This is basically a flour and water mixture that is mostly used and used to provide the sour flavor of the soup. It is made by fermenting flour and water (and sometimes some herbs and spices) over a period of a few days to a week. I've substituted it for up to 100% of the liquid in the no-knead recipe (I generally go for an overall hydration of about 70%), and it's a quick way to add a bit of sourdough flavor to the bread without the hassle of going the sourdough route.

    You can find this one at both Bobak's and Shop and Save, at least the locations on Archer. It's from local company Ludwig Dairy (mostly known for their Kefir.) That version contains just flour and water. There's also the common Crakovia brand, that comes in a bottle like this, and there's a couple similar looking ones. But those usually also contain garlic (which actually has not been much of a problem when I tried using it.) Look for them in the refrigerated section.
  • Post #138 - July 17th, 2014, 1:09 pm
    Post #138 - July 17th, 2014, 1:09 pm Post #138 - July 17th, 2014, 1:09 pm
    Cathy2 wrote:Cook's Illustrated has modified how to bake no knead bread. Instead of preheating the oven and Dutch oven for 30 minutes, you begin by placing your bread dough in the Dutch oven with the lid on into a cold oven.

    Adjust temperature to 425 degrees, once it reaches temperature then set your timer for 30 minutes.

    At 30 minutes, remove the lid. Set your timer for an additional 25-30 minutes.

    At 55-60 minutes, you may pull the bread if it has an internal temperature of 200 degrees. (I simply pull mine at 60 minutes)

    I never really enjoyed lowering bread dough into a hot Dutch oven. So this amendment to their process is welcome to me.

    Regards,


    I tried this method today (with a bit of skepticism, to be honest). The good news: It makes a lovely loaf, and I was shocked that I still ended up getting good oven spring from it. The loaf is no smaller than my preheated-for-an-hour Dutch oven loaf.

    The neutral: Crust is crispy, but a bit thinner. I don't think this is a bad thing. I love crust, but I think I actually like the slightly thinner crust this loaf produces.

    The bad: The loaf was completely stuck to the bottom of my Staub Dutch oven. Completely. No amount of running a knife around the edge helped get it out. I managed to pull about 90% of the bread out, and the rest is soaking in the sink, and hopefully will be removable without too much difficulty.

    So, I'll do this again, but next time I'll do it with parchment paper. The loaf I made was a 70-75% hydration white flour and rye loaf (about 65-35 white flour:rye), so maybe that had something to do with it. Still, I think it's absolutely worth it for the energy it saves and it makes it that much easier getting the loaf into the Dutch oven. So, minus that minor (and perhaps atypical) setback, a big thumbs-up from me for this method.
  • Post #139 - July 20th, 2014, 7:35 pm
    Post #139 - July 20th, 2014, 7:35 pm Post #139 - July 20th, 2014, 7:35 pm
    Binko,

    I may have set you on the wrong path a wee bit, it should be on parchment paper.

    I am really sorry about this.

    I like this revised method, because lowering bread dough into a hot Dutch oven is just asking for a burn.

    Regards,
    Cathy2

    "You'll be remembered long after you're dead if you make good gravy, mashed potatoes and biscuits." -- Nathalie Dupree
    Facebook, Twitter, Greater Midwest Foodways, Road Food 2012: Podcast
  • Post #140 - July 20th, 2014, 10:14 pm
    Post #140 - July 20th, 2014, 10:14 pm Post #140 - July 20th, 2014, 10:14 pm
    Cathy2 wrote:Binko,

    I may have set you on the wrong path a wee bit, it should be on parchment paper.

    I am really sorry about this.

    I like this revised method, because lowering bread dough into a hot Dutch oven is just asking for a burn.

    Regards,


    I've got some rye (2:1 white flour:rye) going right now, so I'm going to do it parchment paper style tomorrow. I don't expect any problems. :) I like this method. Much less energy wasted, and similar results, minus a slightly thinner crust (but still crispy) and perhaps a bit of a tighter crumb (though, not at all dense.) I'm seriously surprised at how much oven spring it got. It didn't seem any less tall than my hot Dutch oven loaf. Plus it makes the handling and rise much easier. I just do that in the Dutch oven and don't have to worry either about dropping dough into the hot Dutch oven, or sliding it off the peel (which doesn't quite slide off just right one out of every four tries), or even doing the lower-with-parchment-paper-into-Dutch-oven method.
  • Post #141 - July 28th, 2014, 7:20 am
    Post #141 - July 28th, 2014, 7:20 am Post #141 - July 28th, 2014, 7:20 am
    Oh, I forgot to post my update. Well, the first time I tried doing the revised recipe, wouldn't you know it, the oven died. Igniter went out on me, so the oven never got to temp and just hovered at around I'd guess something like 250-300 and I ended up with a pile of half-cooked dough that needed to be thrown out.

    After replacing the igniter, I tried again, and it turned out great. Parchment paper did the trick, of course. There is a definite difference between the hot Dutch oven method and the one without, and it is mostly in the crust and the crumb. The crumb is a little tighter, and the crust is a good bit thinner and a little less crispy. The end result reminds me a lot of those European style breads you get at Polish bakeries/groceries. It's quite a nice method and I think I'll sacrifice the thicker crispier crust the preheated method gives me for the ease, speed, and better energy efficiency of this method.

    I've also tried this method a couple of times since with much denser, dark breads (50% white flour, the rest of the 50% composed of rye, whole wheat, flax seed meal, pumpkin seeds, and a little unsweetened cocoa and molasses for color, ~70% hydration) cooked in a loaf pan (uncovered) and it works great for that, too, as a no-knead recipe.
  • Post #142 - September 19th, 2014, 7:28 am
    Post #142 - September 19th, 2014, 7:28 am Post #142 - September 19th, 2014, 7:28 am
    Cathy2 wrote:Binko,

    I may have set you on the wrong path a wee bit, it should be on parchment paper.

    I am really sorry about this.

    I like this revised method, because lowering bread dough into a hot Dutch oven is just asking for a burn.

    Regards,


    I have online access to Cook's Illustrated and the recipe there incorporates the changes they made to the elimination of the pre-heated Dutch Oven.http://www.cooksillustrated.com/recipes ... =MCSCZ00L0
    Ava-"If you get down and out, just get in the kitchen and bake a cake."- Jean Strickland

    Horto In Urbs- Falling in love with Urban Vegetable Gardening
  • Post #143 - September 19th, 2014, 8:39 am
    Post #143 - September 19th, 2014, 8:39 am Post #143 - September 19th, 2014, 8:39 am
    pairs4life wrote:
    Cathy2 wrote:Binko,

    I may have set you on the wrong path a wee bit, it should be on parchment paper.

    I am really sorry about this.

    I like this revised method, because lowering bread dough into a hot Dutch oven is just asking for a burn.

    Regards,


    I have online access to Cook's Illustrated and the recipe there incorporates the changes they made to the elimination of the pre-heated Dutch Oven.http://www.cooksillustrated.com/recipes ... =MCSCZ00L0


    The newest issue of Cooks Country also has the new, modified recipe; illustrated with step by step pictures.
    Steve Z.

    “Only the pure in heart can make a good soup.”
    ― Ludwig van Beethoven
  • Post #144 - July 11th, 2020, 7:35 am
    Post #144 - July 11th, 2020, 7:35 am Post #144 - July 11th, 2020, 7:35 am
    Long time lurker..first time poster. The other day I made a no-knead wheat loaf. The recipe called for four cups of wheat flour and I made it in a dutch oven.

    It smelled and tasted great. However, it was dense and heavy like a brick. If I tweak the recipe to 50/50 or some other blend, can I keep the same baking temperature and time?
    Never order barbecue in a place that also serves quiche - Lewis Grizzard
  • Post #145 - July 11th, 2020, 8:13 am
    Post #145 - July 11th, 2020, 8:13 am Post #145 - July 11th, 2020, 8:13 am
    Yes, but don’t bake it to time if you have a good instant read thermometer. Bake it to an internal temperature of 207
  • Post #146 - July 11th, 2020, 8:26 am
    Post #146 - July 11th, 2020, 8:26 am Post #146 - July 11th, 2020, 8:26 am
    lougord99 wrote:Yes, but don’t bake it to time if you have a good instant read thermometer. Bake it to an internal temperature of 207

    Got it. Thanks Lou!
    Never order barbecue in a place that also serves quiche - Lewis Grizzard
  • Post #147 - May 3rd, 2021, 7:11 pm
    Post #147 - May 3rd, 2021, 7:11 pm Post #147 - May 3rd, 2021, 7:11 pm
    No-Knead Bread, Revisited
    In 2006, it changed the face of baking. Now, J. Kenji López-Alt takes a fresh look at Jim Lahey and Mark Bittman’s revolutionary recipe.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/03/dini ... ticleShare
    Never order barbecue in a place that also serves quiche - Lewis Grizzard
  • Post #148 - May 3rd, 2021, 8:47 pm
    Post #148 - May 3rd, 2021, 8:47 pm Post #148 - May 3rd, 2021, 8:47 pm
    The NYT article got me curious about the role of magnesium sulfate or Epsom salt as a bread enhancer. Not finding much info on the web about that, although it is used as a beer fermentation enhancer. Calcium sulfate or gypsum is commonly used as a bread additive. Unfortunately the NYT doesn't allow comments on articles.
  • Post #149 - May 5th, 2021, 12:58 pm
    Post #149 - May 5th, 2021, 12:58 pm Post #149 - May 5th, 2021, 12:58 pm
    Binko wrote:Oh, I forgot to post my update. Well, the first time I tried doing the revised recipe, wouldn't you know it, the oven died. Igniter went out on me, so the oven never got to temp and just hovered at around I'd guess something like 250-300 and I ended up with a pile of half-cooked dough that needed to be thrown out.

    After replacing the igniter, I tried again, and it turned out great. Parchment paper did the trick, of course. There is a definite difference between the hot Dutch oven method and the one without, and it is mostly in the crust and the crumb. The crumb is a little tighter, and the crust is a good bit thinner and a little less crispy. The end result reminds me a lot of those European style breads you get at Polish bakeries/groceries. It's quite a nice method and I think I'll sacrifice the thicker crispier crust the preheated method gives me for the ease, speed, and better energy efficiency of this method.

    I've also tried this method a couple of times since with much denser, dark breads (50% white flour, the rest of the 50% composed of rye, whole wheat, flax seed meal, pumpkin seeds, and a little unsweetened cocoa and molasses for color, ~70% hydration) cooked in a loaf pan (uncovered) and it works great for that, too, as a no-knead recipe.


    Every bone in my body wants to resist dumping dough right into an ungreased hot dutch over, but that appears to be the case right?
  • Post #150 - May 5th, 2021, 3:51 pm
    Post #150 - May 5th, 2021, 3:51 pm Post #150 - May 5th, 2021, 3:51 pm
    I would agree that parchment paper is the way to go.

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