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  • Post #151 - November 18th, 2020, 6:53 am
    Post #151 - November 18th, 2020, 6:53 am Post #151 - November 18th, 2020, 6:53 am
    Kramer and his knife offerings plus success have gone to his head!
    I have no problem with someone ca$shing in on success, its the American Way but this is absurd!
    There is no $50K value in this knife and to offer this knife at that price, well I’ll leave you to offer judgment.
    I have a Honyaki from a maker judged the best in Japan, Custom ordered and delivered at a fraction of the Kramer price. These knives do not usually get out of Japan because of the price and the Japanese believe we are not worthy.
    I guess Kramer feels we are not worthy also.
    -Richard
  • Post #152 - November 18th, 2020, 7:12 am
    Post #152 - November 18th, 2020, 7:12 am Post #152 - November 18th, 2020, 7:12 am
    ronnie_suburban wrote:If anyone who needs a knife has a little extra cash sitting around, this may be just the thing . . . :wink:

    My thought was, take the $50,000 and buy 1500 Victorinox Swiss Army Fibrox Pro 8” Chef's, the perennial Cooks Illustrated winner, and give them to people with dull kitchen knives. Virtually everyone, with a few exceptions, who cooks at home.

    The world would be a better place.
    Hold my beer . . .

    Low & Slow
  • Post #153 - November 18th, 2020, 10:22 am
    Post #153 - November 18th, 2020, 10:22 am Post #153 - November 18th, 2020, 10:22 am
    budrichard wrote:Kramer and his knife offerings plus success have gone to his head!
    I have no problem with someone ca$shing in on success, its the American Way but this is absurd!
    There is no $50K value in this knife and to offer this knife at that price, well I’ll leave you to offer judgment.
    I have a Honyaki from a maker judged the best in Japan, Custom ordered and delivered at a fraction of the Kramer price. These knives do not usually get out of Japan because of the price and the Japanese believe we are not worthy.
    I guess Kramer feels we are not worthy also.
    -Richard

    Yeah, I don't really understand it. I believe they give a (10%) portion of each sale to some charitable endeavor, which is nice but the price has completely left the parameters of reality.

    G Wiv wrote:
    ronnie_suburban wrote:If anyone who needs a knife has a little extra cash sitting around, this may be just the thing . . . :wink:

    My thought was, take the $50,000 and buy 1500 Victorinox Swiss Army Fibrox Pro 8” Chef's, the perennial Cooks Illustrated winner, and give them to people with dull kitchen knives. Virtually everyone, with a few exceptions, who cooks at home.

    The world would be a better place.

    Absolutely.

    =R=
    Same planet, different world
  • Post #154 - November 21st, 2020, 5:09 pm
    Post #154 - November 21st, 2020, 5:09 pm Post #154 - November 21st, 2020, 5:09 pm
    I'm guessing a few have already seen this, worth a watch. How To Use Every Japanese Knife | Method Mastery | Epicurious
    Hold my beer . . .

    Low & Slow
  • Post #155 - November 22nd, 2020, 12:47 am
    Post #155 - November 22nd, 2020, 12:47 am Post #155 - November 22nd, 2020, 12:47 am
    G Wiv wrote:I'm guessing a few have already seen this, worth a watch. How To Use Every Japanese Knife | Method Mastery | Epicurious

    I watched this video a few weeks ago and it's great. It'll most likely be overkill for all but the most hardcore aichmomaniacs. But for fanatics, enthusiasts and obsessives, it's a great watch.

    =R=
    Same planet, different world
  • Post #156 - September 22nd, 2021, 12:22 pm
    Post #156 - September 22nd, 2021, 12:22 pm Post #156 - September 22nd, 2021, 12:22 pm
    Thought I'd put in a plug for my current favorite knife:
    The Cheetah from FINDKING.
    Aside from a very pretty damascus pattern, it's kept its edge very well, and most of all, fits my wookie-sized hands. Ergonomically, it's the best knife I've ever worked with, letting me both get a good grip for thin slicing and put force into it when needed.
    What is patriotism, but the love of good things we ate in our childhood?
    -- Lin Yutang
  • Post #157 - November 7th, 2021, 7:23 pm
    Post #157 - November 7th, 2021, 7:23 pm Post #157 - November 7th, 2021, 7:23 pm
    As much as I've been drooling over Ronnie S's delicious meals posted in the 'Coronavirus cooking'/'What are you cooking for dinner tonight threads', I've also been drooling over those gorgeous Japanese chef's knives. I'm planning to ask for a new knife for the holidays and I was hoping fellow LTHers might weigh in. My current work horse is a 10 inch chef's Wusthof knife (designed by Mr. Bridge from Bridge Kitchenware in New York) that I've had for about 18 years. I think I'm ready to up my knife game and I'd love to have something that makes finer cuts easily. Anyone have recommendations for knives they love?
  • Post #158 - November 7th, 2021, 7:43 pm
    Post #158 - November 7th, 2021, 7:43 pm Post #158 - November 7th, 2021, 7:43 pm
    thaiobsessed wrote:As much as I've been drooling over Ronnie S's delicious meals posted in the 'Coronavirus cooking'/'What are you cooking for dinner tonight threads', I've also been drooling over those gorgeous Japanese chef's knives. I'm planning to ask for a new knife for the holidays and I was hoping fellow LTHers might weigh in. My current work horse is a 10 inch chef's Wusthof knife (designed by Mr. Bridge from Bridge Kitchenware in New York) that I've had for about 18 years. I think I'm ready to up my knife game and I'd love to have something that makes finer cuts easily. Anyone have recommendations for knives they love?

    The knife forum I frequent offers this list of questions to help folks make focused recommendations. If you don't mind answering the ones you haven't already answered, I can do my best to provide some guidance. I think critical ones are size, handle style, budget and stainless vs. reactive.

    the Chef Knives To Go forums wrote:
    1)Pro or home cook?

    2)What kind of knife do you want? (Gyuto, Santoku, Petty, Paring, Sujihiki, etc.)

    3) What size knife do you want?

    4)How much do you want to spend?

    5) Do you prefer all stainless, stainless clad over reactive carbon, or all reactive carbon construction?

    6)Do you prefer Western or Japanese handle?

    7)What are your main knife/knives now?

    8)Are your knife skills excellent, good, fair?

    9)What cutting techniques do you prefer? Are you a rocker, chopper or push/pull cutter?

    10)Do you know how to sharpen?

    =R=
    Same planet, different world
  • Post #159 - November 7th, 2021, 9:04 pm
    Post #159 - November 7th, 2021, 9:04 pm Post #159 - November 7th, 2021, 9:04 pm
    ronnie_suburban wrote:
    thaiobsessed wrote:As much as I've been drooling over Ronnie S's delicious meals posted in the 'Coronavirus cooking'/'What are you cooking for dinner tonight threads', I've also been drooling over those gorgeous Japanese chef's knives. I'm planning to ask for a new knife for the holidays and I was hoping fellow LTHers might weigh in. My current work horse is a 10 inch chef's Wusthof knife (designed by Mr. Bridge from Bridge Kitchenware in New York) that I've had for about 18 years. I think I'm ready to up my knife game and I'd love to have something that makes finer cuts easily. Anyone have recommendations for knives they love?

    The knife forum I frequent offers this list of questions to help folks make focused recommendations. If you don't mind answering the ones you haven't already answered, I can do my best to provide some guidance. I think critical ones are size, handle style, budget and stainless vs. reactive.

    the Chef Knives To Go forums wrote:
    1)Pro or home cook?

    2)What kind of knife do you want? (Gyuto, Santoku, Petty, Paring, Sujihiki, etc.)

    3) What size knife do you want?

    4)How much do you want to spend?

    5) Do you prefer all stainless, stainless clad over reactive carbon, or all reactive carbon construction?

    6)Do you prefer Western or Japanese handle?

    7)What are your main knife/knives now?

    8)Are your knife skills excellent, good, fair?

    9)What cutting techniques do you prefer? Are you a rocker, chopper or push/pull cutter?

    10)Do you know how to sharpen?

    =R=


    Great thread…in the mid-80’s, I bought my first Japanese knives, Misono. 2 ea 11” slicers, 1 high carbon Swedish steel and 1 stainless, and later a few Sankuto’s. Next, I made a huge investment in a set of Misono ice chisels.
    Fast forward to 2017, I put $$$ into 6-7 various Kikuichi knives which are really a pleasure to use for the meticulous standards of The Everglades Club and everyday cooking at home. Like Ronnie said, you better be prepared to learn to sharpen them on whetstones. ( Back in the day, we were taught to sharpen our “Western” knives on oil stones.)
    Word on the street is that Ronnie is the whetstone master.

    But I’ve got to say… I stood in kitchens for 40 years and watched immigrant cooks from all over the planet do miraculous knife work with $15 plastic handled Swiss Victorinox or Forchner. Badges…we don’t need no stinkin’ badges.

    Having said all this, my every day go to knives (cooking as a civilian) are 3 Kikuichi, 3 Dexter Russell and a Wusthoff.
    If you aren't tasting, you aren't cooking.
  • Post #160 - November 7th, 2021, 10:06 pm
    Post #160 - November 7th, 2021, 10:06 pm Post #160 - November 7th, 2021, 10:06 pm
    Thanks Ronnie S for the set of questions and E Ronnie for the great comments.
    I've never worked in a professional kitchen but I've seen accomplished home cooks work magic with cheap knives!
    I'm looking to have some fun with dinner prep but (hopefully) not start a crazy expensive knife habit.

    the Chef Knives To Go forums wrote:
    1)Pro or home cook?
    Ha ha (home cook)
    2)What kind of knife do you want? (Gyuto, Santoku, Petty, Paring, Sujihiki, etc.)
    I think a Gyuto or Santoku (I've seen commends that a Santoku is better for vegetables, a Gyuto for meat--not sure if that's true but the Gyuto shape appeals to me more)
    3) What size knife do you want?
    Around 8 inch
    4)How much do you want to spend?
    Good question--I know nice knives can get pricey but probably not over $300
    5) Do you prefer all stainless, stainless clad over reactive carbon, or all reactive carbon construction?
    It's my understanding that stainless are easier to maintain but reactive carbon holds an edge better. I'm nervous about ruining a reactive carbon knife by not maintaining it properly. I think I'd lean towards stainless or stainless clad over reactive carbon (or high carbon stainless if that holds an edge well). I'd take suggestions on this point
    6)Do you prefer Western or Japanese handle?
    I'd like to try a Japanese handle

    7)What are your main knife/knives now?
    2 Wusthof knives (8/10 inch chefs knives)
    Are your knife skills excellent, good, fair?
    I'd say pretty good
    9)What cutting techniques do you prefer? Are you a rocker, chopper or push/pull cutter?
    Push/pull cutter
    10)Do you know how to sharpen? I have a whetstone and I used it to sharpen in the past but have been using an electric sharpener for western knives recently (Trizor XV but know that is a big no-no for a good single bevel Japanese knife). So, I'd say, I'm committed to brushing up on my sharpening skills.
    =
  • Post #161 - November 7th, 2021, 10:43 pm
    Post #161 - November 7th, 2021, 10:43 pm Post #161 - November 7th, 2021, 10:43 pm
    Mr. Suburban, I think one more question should be added to that list.

    Are you right or left handed?

    Not all Japanese knives are a 50/50 grind.

    Handles. Left handed peoples have issues with some handles.

    Minor points, but worth considering when putting $$ down on a knife. Another thing to consider, are you going to chase a unicorn? Some makers are quite popular and it can be tricky to get one of their knives.

    Best of luck.
    The thing about quotes on the internet is you can not confirm their validity. -- Abraham Lincoln
  • Post #162 - November 7th, 2021, 11:33 pm
    Post #162 - November 7th, 2021, 11:33 pm Post #162 - November 7th, 2021, 11:33 pm
    Evil Ronnie wrote:Great thread…in the mid-80’s, I bought my first Japanese knives, Misono. 2 ea 11” slicers, 1 high carbon Swedish steel and 1 stainless, and later a few Sankuto’s. Next, I made a huge investment in a set of Misono ice chisels.
    Fast forward to 2017, I put $$$ into 6-7 various Kikuichi knives which are really a pleasure to use for the meticulous standards of The Everglades Club and everyday cooking at home. Like Ronnie said, you better be prepared to learn to sharpen them on whetstones. ( Back in the day, we were taught to sharpen our “Western” knives on oil stones.)
    Word on the street is that Ronnie is the whetstone master.

    But I’ve got to say… I stood in kitchens for 40 years and watched immigrant cooks from all over the planet do miraculous knife work with $15 plastic handled Swiss Victorinox or Forchner. Badges…we don’t need no stinkin’ badges.

    Having said all this, my every day go to knives (cooking as a civilian) are 3 Kikuichi, 3 Dexter Russell and a Wusthoff.

    Thanks for sharing your valuable Pro perspective, Ronnie. Sounds like you've really landed on what is the right fit for you. And I think that's key because so much of choosing the "right" knife comes down to personal preference.

    And so true about a seasoned cook making it work with whatever they've gotten used to. An expensive knife might make you faster but it won't make you fast.

    thaiobsessed wrote:Thanks Ronnie S for the set of questions and E Ronnie for the great comments.
    I've never worked in a professional kitchen but I've seen accomplished home cooks work magic with cheap knives!
    I'm looking to have some fun with dinner prep but (hopefully) not start a crazy expensive knife habit . . .

    Yeah. Starting a habit is not necessarily an innate part of finding a great kitchen knife. I think there are some reasons it can happen that mostly have to do with the level of care that goes into certain types of knives -- many are works of art -- and the fact that there really aren't a lot of ways to test out a knife without buying it. This can lead to multiple purchases because in most cases, that can be the only way to really try out a given knife. So, as curiosity grows, it can become habitual. But it doesn't have to be! :P

    Xexo wrote:Are you right or left handed?

    Not all Japanese knives are a 50/50 grind.

    Handles. Left handed peoples have issues with some handles.

    Yes, true. But in practical terms a vast majority of knives that are ground for either right or left-handed people are more specialized than gyutos or santokus. As for the handles, I think it's the "D" handles you're referring to. They have one flat side and resemble the letter D when looking at them from the back end of the handle. They are intended for righties, as the flat side is not positioned well for lefties. But even some righties don't like them. For our purposes here, I'll stick to knives that are entirely ambidextrous or I'll be sure to mention if one I've recommended is not.

    I have a couple in mind but I'd like to give this a bit more thought before I throw any suggestions out there. I know Gary has quite a bit of experience with J-Knives, as well.

    =R=
    Same planet, different world
  • Post #163 - November 22nd, 2021, 11:56 pm
    Post #163 - November 22nd, 2021, 11:56 pm Post #163 - November 22nd, 2021, 11:56 pm
    thaiobsessed wrote:1)Pro or home cook?
    Ha ha (home cook)
    2)What kind of knife do you want? (Gyuto, Santoku, Petty, Paring, Sujihiki, etc.)
    I think a Gyuto or Santoku (I've seen commends that a Santoku is better for vegetables, a Gyuto for meat--not sure if that's true but the Gyuto shape appeals to me more)
    3) What size knife do you want?
    Around 8 inch
    4)How much do you want to spend?
    Good question--I know nice knives can get pricey but probably not over $300
    5) Do you prefer all stainless, stainless clad over reactive carbon, or all reactive carbon construction?
    It's my understanding that stainless are easier to maintain but reactive carbon holds an edge better. I'm nervous about ruining a reactive carbon knife by not maintaining it properly. I think I'd lean towards stainless or stainless clad over reactive carbon (or high carbon stainless if that holds an edge well). I'd take suggestions on this point
    6)Do you prefer Western or Japanese handle?
    I'd like to try a Japanese handle
    7)What are your main knife/knives now?
    2 Wusthof knives (8/10 inch chefs knives)
    Are your knife skills excellent, good, fair?
    I'd say pretty good
    9)What cutting techniques do you prefer? Are you a rocker, chopper or push/pull cutter?
    Push/pull cutter
    10)Do you know how to sharpen? I have a whetstone and I used it to sharpen in the past but have been using an electric sharpener for western knives recently (Trizor XV but know that is a big no-no for a good single bevel Japanese knife). So, I'd say, I'm committed to brushing up on my sharpening skills.

    Okay. Sorry for the delay here. So many knives to consider but taking your preferences into account (through the lens of my limited experience) here are some that I think you would serve you well . . .

    Kurosaki Fujin VG10 Gyuto 210mm
    https://www.chefknivestogo.com/kufuvggy24.html
    This is one of my top 5 favorite knives. If fully stainless is a must, this ticks almost every box. I love the balance, the heat-treat, the profile the grind and the look. Again, these preferences are personal but this is a great knife. They're often sold out but if you sign up for restock email notifications, they're not ridiculous to get.

    Konosuke HD2 Gyuto 210mm Laurel - all reactive but semi-stainless edge
    https://www.chefknivestogo.com/kohd2gy21la.html
    In my opinion, if you can live without fully stainless, this would be my number one choice on this list. I love mine. It's laser-like but still has some substance to it. It can handle any job well and it glides through food.

    Konosuke HD2 Gyuto 210mm Ho Wood - all reactive but semi-stainless edge
    (same as above but with ho instead of laurel)
    https://www.chefknivestogo.com/kohd21wa.html

    Konosuke GS+ Gyuto 210mm - stainless clad, semi stainless edge
    https://www.chefknivestogo.com/kogsgy210.html
    More minimal in its design than the HD2 Konosukes above but still, a very nice cutter.

    Makoto VG7 Ryusei Gyuto 210mm - stainless clad
    https://www.chefknivestogo.com/marygy21.html
    A very elegant blade that's also a great all-around performer. The VG7 is new for them but I understand it performs very well. More belly than some of the knives above, so better for rocking than some of the others.

    Matsubara G3 Nashiji Gyuto 210mm - all stainless
    https://www.chefknivestogo.com/mag3nagy21.html
    More of a workhorse. The nashiji (pear skin) finish is fairly rustic. It'll handle tougher jobs easily but will also handle more delicate jobs well.

    Harukaze G3 Nashiji Gyuto 210mm - all stainless
    https://www.chefknivestogo.com/hag3gy21.html
    This one punches way above its price point. I have this in 240mm and I love it. The biggest knock is that the oval handle is very no-frills but it's a lot of knife for the money and will do a great job.

    Nigara SG2 Tsuchime Gyutos 210mm
    https://www.chefknivestogo.com/nisg2tsgy21.html
    I own one Nigara, also in SG2, and it's a very special knife, with a blade that just seems to fall through food. This one is very tempting but I must resist! :lol:

    Kanjo VG10 Damascus Gyuto 210mm - all stainless
    https://www.chefknivestogo.com/kovgdagy21cu.html
    A fun damascus blade in fully stainless VG10.

    Yoshimi SG2 Gyuto 210mm Ebony - all stainless
    https://www.chefknivestogo.com/yosg2gy21eb.html
    I love SG2 and this knife is an excellent representation of the steel.

    Again, so many choices (far beyond what I've mentioned here) and while I love and highly endorse CKTG (the store to which I've linked above), my guess is that at least some of these knives can be purchased elsewhere. I cannot imagine a reason to go elsewhere for them but I didn't want to make it appear as if one couldn't.

    Hope this helps. If you want more info or have questions, please let me know.

    =R=
    Same planet, different world
  • Post #164 - November 23rd, 2021, 3:28 am
    Post #164 - November 23rd, 2021, 3:28 am Post #164 - November 23rd, 2021, 3:28 am
    ronnie_suburban wrote:Hope this helps. If you want more info or have questions, please let me know.

    Nice Ronnie, terrific info.

    I'm afraid I've gotten slightly stale in my knife obsession, its been a while since I've bought anything new. And, seeing as I have a number of kitchen knives I've never even cut paper with, it will be a bit longer. :)

    I have pretty much settled on Misono as a brand and Korin as my go to for buying knives. I've bought a few from Ronnie's fav, Japanese chefs knifes to go, but http://www.korin.com is my main.

    In the Misono brand I like, use, and gift the 8" carbon steel Gyutou with the occasional dip into the UX10. I'm a sucker for patina, including older Sabatier.

    Korin currently has 20% off all knives, hell of a deal.

    Once again, great info from Ron, he is so far down the rabbit hole he brings lunch when surfing knife web sites. :)
    Hold my beer . . .

    Low & Slow
  • Post #165 - April 11th, 2022, 8:11 pm
    Post #165 - April 11th, 2022, 8:11 pm Post #165 - April 11th, 2022, 8:11 pm
    A Wooden Knife Sharper Than Steel? Scientists Say So.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/11/us/h ... ticleShare
    Never order barbecue in a place that also serves quiche - Lewis Grizzard
  • Post #166 - April 14th, 2022, 8:40 am
    Post #166 - April 14th, 2022, 8:40 am Post #166 - April 14th, 2022, 8:40 am
    With the numbers of Brands available from Japan this can be a daunting decision.
    I would suggest going with a USA based internet provider of which you can call and discuss your needs.
    One that I have personally dealt with is Chef Knives to Go
    https://www.chefknivestogo.com
    Other names that come to mind are Korin in NYC.
    Most of the larger knife manufacturers in Japan make a number of different lines of knives ranging from economical to single author at very high prices.
    But it's all in the cosmetics, reasonably priced sandwich blade can be very very sharp.
    Be aware that these blades are very sharp and caution need to be followed for first time users.
    -Richard
  • Post #167 - April 14th, 2022, 9:46 am
    Post #167 - April 14th, 2022, 9:46 am Post #167 - April 14th, 2022, 9:46 am
    gojis25 wrote:Hi all,
    Am after a couple of decent folded steel Japanese kitchen knives for the wife for Xmas. Your larger kitchen knife and then just a small one. Found this site earlier with tons of Japanese brands but no idea if any are actually decent or not
    Any recommendations would be appreciated japanese knives blog. $250 max would be ideal for both of the knives together.

    Thank you.

    Go here, to this thread at CKTG, answer the questions in a new thread and you'll almost certainly get some some useful, experienced advice and guidance.

    =R=
    Same planet, different world
  • Post #168 - April 14th, 2022, 9:48 am
    Post #168 - April 14th, 2022, 9:48 am Post #168 - April 14th, 2022, 9:48 am
    FYI, here are the questions from that thread:

    1)Pro or home cook?

    2)What kind of knife do you want? (Gyuto, Santoku, Petty, Paring, Sujihiki, etc.)

    3) What size knife do you want?

    4)How much do you want to spend?

    5) Do you prefer all stainless, stainless clad over reactive carbon, or all reactive carbon construction?

    6)Do you prefer Western or Japanese handle?

    7)What are your main knife/knives now?

    8)Are your knife skills excellent, good, fair?

    9)What cutting techniques do you prefer? Are you a rocker, chopper or push/pull cutter?

    10)Do you know how to sharpen?

    =R=
    Same planet, different world
  • Post #169 - April 14th, 2022, 2:03 pm
    Post #169 - April 14th, 2022, 2:03 pm Post #169 - April 14th, 2022, 2:03 pm
    Dave148 wrote:A Wooden Knife Sharper Than Steel? Scientists Say So.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/11/us/h ... ticleShare

    Probably not . . .

    Wood Knife that is 3x Sharper than Steel? Spoiler: No

    at their website, knifesteelnerds wrote:. . . So their hardened wood knife showed superior sharpness because they made it sharper. They didn’t do comparisons of how sharp they could get the different materials. They didn’t even test to see how sharp they could get the commercial wood table knife as far as I can tell. Obviously the steel can be sharper. Razor blades are regularly under 50g. So the internet media reports of “wood that is three times sharper than steel” are obviously false and just lazy reporting.

    Summary

    So did they achieving something new with their process? Can’t tell, they didn’t compare to anything else or even cite any other studies with a similar process. Other wood densification processes have already been reported on and tested but these authors pretended they don’t exist. Are the knives or nails revolutionary? No, there are already butter knives and nails made out of wood. Did they successfully get a bunch of online media outlets to report on their research because they had a good hook on a press release? Yes.

    =R=
    Same planet, different world
  • Post #170 - January 7th, 2023, 7:11 pm
    Post #170 - January 7th, 2023, 7:11 pm Post #170 - January 7th, 2023, 7:11 pm
    I haven’t bought a new knife in a couple of decades. Many years ago as a culinary student I tried out several different styles and makers of knives. I felt most comfortable with Wustof, purchased everything I needed and haven’t given a ton of thought since.

    Recently I had the urge to purchase something new just for fun. I’d never tried a Japanese knife. Found one on Amazon for a reasonable price so decided to give it a try. I did not research or explore this thread beforehand. It was impulsive and I liked the look of the knife. Kind of like buying the record album because I thought the cover was cool.

    So it’s here and it’s super-sharp and I’m a little intimidated about keeping it that way. Despite my culinary school training, most of the restaurants I worked at had knife sharpening services and I was just so-so with a stone. Several years ago my husband got me an electric sharpener which works well for home use. It has a special setting for Asian knives. My question for this thread - should I try it when the time comes, take it to Northwestern Cutlery, or just try harder with my stone?

    Sending a photo of knife to Mr. Suburban to post at his convenience…

    Image
  • Post #171 - January 8th, 2023, 7:39 am
    Post #171 - January 8th, 2023, 7:39 am Post #171 - January 8th, 2023, 7:39 am
    Most Japanese knives are a three part combination of a soft iron on the outside and a hard inner core.
    They are sharpened on a water stone versus oil stone.
    Chefknivestogo.com can provide the required stones. I also have a ‘bridge’ type device that anchors across a-sink and holds the stone. Japanese water stones are pricey.
    Chefs sharpen at least once per day and some many times during the day.
    The knives can be sharpened very very sharp.
    I use an 800 grit and sometimes a 3000 grit finish.
    Since these knives require sharpening very often, commercial sharpening is not cost effective.
    I don’t use mechanical devices because the can remove a lot of material and if you raise the temperature of the blade, you can lose the heat treatment.
    Try your stone you have first with water and then consider a proper water stone.
    I also use the water stone method for my Wusthof and other western knives which take more effort to sharpen due to the harder steel.
    Good luck with you knife!
    -Richard
    BTW, the little bottle of oil provided is probably used to prevent the blade from rusting when not in use.
  • Post #172 - January 8th, 2023, 1:36 pm
    Post #172 - January 8th, 2023, 1:36 pm Post #172 - January 8th, 2023, 1:36 pm
    LynnB wrote:So it’s here and it’s super-sharp and I’m a little intimidated about keeping it that way. Despite my culinary school training, most of the restaurants I worked at had knife sharpening services and I was just so-so with a stone. Several years ago my husband got me an electric sharpener which works well for home use. It has a special setting for Asian knives. My question for this thread - should I try it when the time comes, take it to Northwestern Cutlery, or just try harder with my stone?

    Congrats, Lynn! Can you please share the details of the knife? I'm guessing that at least the edge steel is reactive (non-stainless) because of the included oil. Btw, you will almost certainly not need that oil unless you plan on very long-term storage for the knife. For better or worse, we live in a climate where properly stored reactive knives aren't very affected during non-use. In any case, knowing the details of the knife's construction will make it easier to give applicable advice (which you can take or leave because I'm certainly no expert).

    I know I'm going very much against the majority sentiment of the forum here here but I'm not a fan of the sharpening at NWC. In fact, it's probably the single biggest reason why I learned to sharpen knives myself. I really disliked the job they did with some of my knives -- sloppy, machine-ground and they removed way too much material. I decided there had to be a better way, and there is. With help of gastro gnome, I got some stones and learned to sharpen by hand. I would not recommend using an electric sharpener. It'll probably just end up being an amplified analog of the NWC experience. And if you really don't want to deal with sharpening, as budrichard mentioned above, CKTG is a great resource, not only for stones but they also offer a sharpening service that will blow the NWC service away. Owners Mark & Sue are great people to deal with.

    Sharpening is not rocket science and a basic, two-sided stone (1k, 3k) plus a strop of some sort, would probably enough to learn on and keep the knife as tuned as you like it for as long as you own it. But in order to make useful suggestions, it'd be best to know the specific details of the knife you bought.

    =R=
    Same planet, different world
  • Post #173 - January 8th, 2023, 1:58 pm
    Post #173 - January 8th, 2023, 1:58 pm Post #173 - January 8th, 2023, 1:58 pm
    Thanks Richard & Ronnie for your replies. I should and likely will work on my own sharpening skills.

    The knife is a Mitsumoto Sakari 8” Japanese Gyuto Chef Knife.

    From Amazon:
    (Traditional Japanese Hand Forging) Professional Japanese chef's knife inherits the traditional Japanese hand forging method; combined with advanced technology and materials. Through the knifemaker's manual fine knife shape and pounding out the gorgeous pounding texture; into the perfect forging art and craftsmanship. Insist on completing a perfect kitchen chef's knife through 45 days of hand forging.
    [High Quality Cooking Chef Knives] Gyuto chef knife is made of 3 layers of top grade 9CR18MOV high carbon steel with precision quenching and vacuum cold nitrogen treatment. It greatly enhances the characteristics of corrosion resistance, rust prevention and toughness; the hardness is up to 58±2HRC. 2.5mm ultra-thin sharp blade can keep the ideal ripeness of fruits, vegetables in the best condition and meat in the most delicious moment when cutting.
  • Post #174 - January 9th, 2023, 4:26 pm
    Post #174 - January 9th, 2023, 4:26 pm Post #174 - January 9th, 2023, 4:26 pm
    LynnB wrote:Thanks Richard & Ronnie for your replies. I should and likely will work on my own sharpening skills.

    The knife is a Mitsumoto Sakari 8” Japanese Gyuto Chef Knife.

    From Amazon:
    (Traditional Japanese Hand Forging) Professional Japanese chef's knife inherits the traditional Japanese hand forging method; combined with advanced technology and materials. Through the knifemaker's manual fine knife shape and pounding out the gorgeous pounding texture; into the perfect forging art and craftsmanship. Insist on completing a perfect kitchen chef's knife through 45 days of hand forging.
    [High Quality Cooking Chef Knives] Gyuto chef knife is made of 3 layers of top grade 9CR18MOV high carbon steel with precision quenching and vacuum cold nitrogen treatment. It greatly enhances the characteristics of corrosion resistance, rust prevention and toughness; the hardness is up to 58±2HRC. 2.5mm ultra-thin sharp blade can keep the ideal ripeness of fruits, vegetables in the best condition and meat in the most delicious moment when cutting.

    Okay, got it. According to the item's description, the edge steel is stainless and it's relatively soft (58 HRC +/-2.5). The upsides are, at that softness, the steel will be easy to sharpen and it is unlikely to chip during use. The downside is that it probably won't hold an edge for as long as a harder knife. But ultimately, that'll depend on a variety of factors (frequency of use, specific cutting jobs, type of cutting board, etc.).

    I presume that the cladding is not stainless -- because of the inclusion of the protective oil -- but reading the description, maybe it is. It's not entirely clear (3 layers are mentioned but only 1 steel is mentioned). That would be an unusual combination. More often than not, J-Knives are either fully reactive, fully stainless or have a reactive edge steel and stainless cladding. But again, the inclusion of that oil has me wondering (maybe it's just a gimmick or they ship it with every knife). In any case, you're not going to hurt the knife by making sure to rinse and dry it (microfiber towel), after each use, something that you'd absolutely need to do with a reactive knife.

    If you're going to sharpen on your own, I think my original recommendation for a 1k/3k combo stone is probably a good way to go. This Cerax Combo 1K/3K stone should serve you well. Yes, you can use a sink bridge with it but the stone comes with a base/holder, and a damp towel should be adequate for keeping it in place while you work. You'll need to submerge/soak this particular stone in water for 15-20 minutes before you use it. As for the actual sharpening, youtube is chock full of instructive videos. I'd look for stuff by Peter Nowland, Korin Knifes or even Ryky Tran. But again, sending it out to CKTG is always a great -- albeit more expensive and less convenient -- option. And honestly, I'm happy to sharpen it for you, too. Down the road, items like a strop and/or a flattening stone (to mitigate the inevitable dishing of your stone from using it) might be necessary but probably not right away.

    Anything else I can answer, please let me know. Please understand that I'm very much a n00b at this stuff, and there are plenty people/resources that are far more knowledgeable.

    Have fun! :)

    =R=
    Same planet, different world
  • Post #175 - January 9th, 2023, 10:34 pm
    Post #175 - January 9th, 2023, 10:34 pm Post #175 - January 9th, 2023, 10:34 pm
    Noticed that LynnB's relatively modest priced knife is made with 45 days of hand forging. And looking at some far cheaper imitations on Amazon, many say 45 days. This doesn't mean a guy pounding on the knife for 45 eight hour days, does it? Is it heat treated or case hardened for that long or some such?
  • Post #176 - January 9th, 2023, 11:16 pm
    Post #176 - January 9th, 2023, 11:16 pm Post #176 - January 9th, 2023, 11:16 pm
    tjr wrote:Noticed that LynnB's relatively modest priced knife is made with 45 days of hand forging. And looking at some far cheaper imitations on Amazon, many say 45 days. This doesn't mean a guy pounding on the knife for 45 eight hour days, does it? Is it heat treated or case hardened for that long or some such?

    I really have no idea what that means. Seemed like a dubious, unimportant claim. Maybe the knife takes 45 days from start to finish to create. No knife, especially at this price level, requires that lengthy a process to make. It's a mystery.

    =R=
    Same planet, different world
  • Post #177 - January 10th, 2023, 8:29 am
    Post #177 - January 10th, 2023, 8:29 am Post #177 - January 10th, 2023, 8:29 am
    ronnie_suburban wrote:I really have no idea what that means. Seemed like a dubious, unimportant claim. Maybe the knife takes 45 days from start to finish to create. No knife, especially at this price level, requires that lengthy a process to make. It's a mystery.

    Wait, Hold-One, Stop the Presses! You implying there is not truth in advertising ?
    Hold my beer . . .

    Low & Slow
  • Post #178 - January 10th, 2023, 8:48 am
    Post #178 - January 10th, 2023, 8:48 am Post #178 - January 10th, 2023, 8:48 am
    ronnie_suburban wrote:
    tjr wrote:Noticed that LynnB's relatively modest priced knife is made with 45 days of hand forging. And looking at some far cheaper imitations on Amazon, many say 45 days. This doesn't mean a guy pounding on the knife for 45 eight hour days, does it? Is it heat treated or case hardened for that long or some such?

    I really have no idea what that means. Seemed like a dubious, unimportant claim. Maybe the knife takes 45 days from start to finish to create. No knife, especially at this price level, requires that lengthy a process to make. It's a mystery.

    =R=


    Totally plausible. If you ask my wife she'll tell you that any project I start takes about 45 days to complete.
  • Post #179 - January 10th, 2023, 4:22 pm
    Post #179 - January 10th, 2023, 4:22 pm Post #179 - January 10th, 2023, 4:22 pm
    Thanks, Ronnie for your thorough and thoughtful reply. I checked it out and did order the stone you recommended. Will be viewing some YouTube videos when it arrives.

    As tjr noted, the knife was not particularly expensive. Heck, the stone cost more than the knife but I think that will serve me well going forward. The price point of the knife was perfect for just seeing if I liked the style, plus not feeling too bad if I messed up the sharpening… :wink:
  • Post #180 - January 10th, 2023, 5:52 pm
    Post #180 - January 10th, 2023, 5:52 pm Post #180 - January 10th, 2023, 5:52 pm
    LynnB wrote:Thanks, Ronnie for your thorough and thoughtful reply. I checked it out and did order the stone you recommended. Will be viewing some YouTube videos when it arrives.

    Truly, my pleasure. Cool.

    LynnB wrote:As tjr noted, the knife was not particularly expensive. Heck, the stone cost more than the knife but I think that will serve me well going forward. The price point of the knife was perfect for just seeing if I liked the style, plus not feeling too bad if I messed up the sharpening… :wink:

    I think you made a wise decision. There's a bit of a acclimation period going from a western knife to a J-knife, so best to start out with something inexpensive and see how it feels. As for sharpening, as gastro gnome sagely told me when he first showed me how to sharpen, the knife is steel and there's not much substantive damage you can really do to it when sharpening. Worst case, there'll be a few cosmetic issues or nothing that a subsequent sharpening can't fix. I find the entire process to be incredibly relaxing and rewarding.

    =R=
    Same planet, different world

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