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Woodman's-Should I make the trip?

Woodman's-Should I make the trip?
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  • Is Woodman's worth the 85 mile drive from Chicago? Poll ended at January 20th, 2011, 2:58 pm
    Yes, of course it's worth the trip!
    36%
    4
    Nah, save the gas & shop locally!
    64%
    7
    Total votes : 11
  • Woodman's-Should I make the trip?

    Post #1 - January 18th, 2011, 2:58 pm
    Post #1 - January 18th, 2011, 2:58 pm Post #1 - January 18th, 2011, 2:58 pm
    I was perusing old posts about Woodman's Market. There's one in C'ville, IL, but that's a 40 mile trek O/W for me.
    I see they have cool beers, & unsplit lobster roll buns, but since they save revenue by not really having a website, I was hoping for input. Is it worth a trip out there to shop? Is there anything special, or any reasons why I should go out there? I have to go to IKEA & Mitsuwa for some things they only have, & figured, if I was all that way out...I also thought maybe the Walmart in E Dundee might actually have Unfrosted Blueberry Pop-Tarts. Any thoughts?
  • Post #2 - January 18th, 2011, 3:21 pm
    Post #2 - January 18th, 2011, 3:21 pm Post #2 - January 18th, 2011, 3:21 pm
    Hi,

    I live about 25 miles south of the Kenosha store. People I know who go regularly treat it as a once a month big stock up shopping destination.

    I rarely go there for destination shopping. If I am nearby, I rarely miss an opportunity to stop in.

    Regards,
    Cathy2

    "You'll be remembered long after you're dead if you make good gravy, mashed potatoes and biscuits." -- Nathalie Dupree
    Facebook, Twitter, Greater Midwest Foodways, Road Food 2012: Podcast
  • Post #3 - January 18th, 2011, 3:57 pm
    Post #3 - January 18th, 2011, 3:57 pm Post #3 - January 18th, 2011, 3:57 pm
    I go to the Kenosha one to stock up on New Glarus beer.
    When I grow up, I'm going to Bovine University!
  • Post #4 - January 18th, 2011, 7:14 pm
    Post #4 - January 18th, 2011, 7:14 pm Post #4 - January 18th, 2011, 7:14 pm
    Fujisan wrote:I go to the Kenosha one to stock up on New Glarus beer.


    Worth it for the New Glarus alone.
    It is VERY important to be smart when you're doing something stupid

    - Chris

    http://stavewoodworking.com
  • Post #5 - January 19th, 2011, 2:21 am
    Post #5 - January 19th, 2011, 2:21 am Post #5 - January 19th, 2011, 2:21 am
    Attrill wrote:
    Fujisan wrote:I go to the Kenosha one to stock up on New Glarus beer.


    Worth it for the New Glarus alone.

    Agreed. Not to mention the stuff from Sand Creek and Central Waters.
  • Post #6 - January 19th, 2011, 8:04 am
    Post #6 - January 19th, 2011, 8:04 am Post #6 - January 19th, 2011, 8:04 am
    I'm lucky to live 10 minutes from the Woodman's in North Aurora, it's our regular weekly shopping trip. FWIW, the North Aurora Woodman's is at the Orchard Road exit of I-88 behind the Auto Mall.
  • Post #7 - January 19th, 2011, 8:16 am
    Post #7 - January 19th, 2011, 8:16 am Post #7 - January 19th, 2011, 8:16 am
    Cathy2 wrote:Hi,

    I live about 25 miles south of the Kenosha store. People I know who go regularly treat it as a once a month big stock up shopping destination.

    I rarely go there for destination shopping. If I am nearby, I rarely miss an opportunity to stop in.

    Regards,


    If you combine it with a meal at either Wells Brothers or Captain Porky's, it's a fine day indeed! :D
    Never order barbecue in a place that also serves quiche - Lewis Grizzard
  • Post #8 - January 19th, 2011, 9:00 am
    Post #8 - January 19th, 2011, 9:00 am Post #8 - January 19th, 2011, 9:00 am
    Dave148 wrote:If you combine it with a meal at either Wells Brothers or Captain Porky's, it's a fine day indeed! :D

    I don't understand this word "or".... ;-)
    -Mary
  • Post #9 - January 19th, 2011, 10:20 am
    Post #9 - January 19th, 2011, 10:20 am Post #9 - January 19th, 2011, 10:20 am
    The GP wrote:
    Dave148 wrote:If you combine it with a meal at either Wells Brothers or Captain Porky's, it's a fine day indeed! :D

    I don't understand this word "or".... ;-)

    Good point. C2 and I did a Wells Brothers + Woodman's run last year. Unfortunately, CP was still under construction. :cry:
    Never order barbecue in a place that also serves quiche - Lewis Grizzard
  • Post #10 - January 19th, 2011, 6:13 pm
    Post #10 - January 19th, 2011, 6:13 pm Post #10 - January 19th, 2011, 6:13 pm
    I'd still say Woodman's is not worth a special trip from a distance but a it's a little sweeter if paired with Tenuta's Deli in Kenosha. A very nice deli on it's own, Tenuta's is also an Italian grocer and has a very good Wisconsin cheese selection.
    Prior LTH thread


    3203 52nd Street
    Kenosha, WI 53144
    262-657-9001
    http://www.tenutasdeli.com
  • Post #11 - January 19th, 2011, 7:26 pm
    Post #11 - January 19th, 2011, 7:26 pm Post #11 - January 19th, 2011, 7:26 pm
    LikestoEatout wrote:I'm lucky to live 10 minutes from the Woodman's in North Aurora, it's our regular weekly shopping trip. FWIW, the North Aurora Woodman's is at the Orchard Road exit of I-88 behind the Auto Mall.


    I always find something that makes me glad that I made the trip out to Carpenterville or Janesville, WI.
  • Post #12 - January 20th, 2011, 8:40 pm
    Post #12 - January 20th, 2011, 8:40 pm Post #12 - January 20th, 2011, 8:40 pm
    Woodman's carries Quisp cereal, an extra reason to visit!
  • Post #13 - January 21st, 2011, 12:15 am
    Post #13 - January 21st, 2011, 12:15 am Post #13 - January 21st, 2011, 12:15 am
    brianzee wrote:Woodman's carries Quisp cereal, an extra reason to visit!

    Hi,

    Are you personally fond of Quisp's taste or like the hunt?

    Regards,
    Cathy2

    "You'll be remembered long after you're dead if you make good gravy, mashed potatoes and biscuits." -- Nathalie Dupree
    Facebook, Twitter, Greater Midwest Foodways, Road Food 2012: Podcast
  • Post #14 - January 26th, 2011, 6:09 pm
    Post #14 - January 26th, 2011, 6:09 pm Post #14 - January 26th, 2011, 6:09 pm
    Hi,

    Are you personally fond of Quisp's taste or like the hunt?

    Regards,


    To answer your question, it's a little of both. The packaging is definitely a draw. No HFCS.
  • Post #15 - October 15th, 2013, 1:09 pm
    Post #15 - October 15th, 2013, 1:09 pm Post #15 - October 15th, 2013, 1:09 pm
    Finally made the trip to Woodman's. Be warned the highway construction is a hot mess around all Kenosha Exits so avoid any rush hour time. The store is huge and looks like a cross between Costco/Sams and a grocery outlet. There is a huge bakery section that has packaged breads, cakes, sweets, Kringles, etc but no fresh bakery on site. The produce section had nothing special and the displays were confusing ie organics vs regular produce-especially with the large cardboard bins of melons, onions, and apples on the floor in the middle of the aisles with no bags in clear sight. The meat department was HORRENDEOUS! A small section of organic and the rest really looked like outlet meat. And the fresh deli counter had only the basics-salami, roast beef, turkey and stick cheese with the worst slicing cuts I have ever seen. The packaged meats (brats, deli meats had nothing special, local or unusual save Usingers which you can get nearly everywhere. We really wanted to focus on the cheese section and left without a single piece. No artisinal cheese on offer. The store's layout is confusing-pop sold in various places as well as frozen foods. We left with some sale shampoo and Sprechters and Point Root Beer and Gingerale. But it does have a great liquor section. Plenty of local brews chilling in the wall coolers. I focused on the American whisky, sour mash and bourbon area but did notice a large Canadian whisky selection with names I have never seen. Picked up some Four Roses pretty cheap but you have to know your prices of other brands to secure a deal. Bottom line? Go for the booze and skip the rest.
    What disease did cured ham actually have?
  • Post #16 - October 15th, 2013, 1:40 pm
    Post #16 - October 15th, 2013, 1:40 pm Post #16 - October 15th, 2013, 1:40 pm
    Elfin wrote:Finally made the trip to Woodman's. Be warned the highway construction is a hot mess around all Kenosha Exits so avoid any rush hour time. The store is huge and looks like a cross between Costco/Sams and a grocery outlet. There is a huge bakery section that has packaged breads, cakes, sweets, Kringles, etc but no fresh bakery on site. The produce section had nothing special and the displays were confusing ie organics vs regular produce-especially with the large cardboard bins of melons, onions, and apples on the floor in the middle of the aisles with no bags in clear sight. The meat department was HORRENDEOUS! A small section of organic and the rest really looked like outlet meat. And the fresh deli counter had only the basics-salami, roast beef, turkey and stick cheese with the worst slicing cuts I have ever seen. The packaged meats (brats, deli meats had nothing special, local or unusual save Usingers which you can get nearly everywhere. We really wanted to focus on the cheese section and left without a single piece. No artisinal cheese on offer. The store's layout is confusing-pop sold in various places as well as frozen foods. We left with some sale shampoo and Sprechters and Point Root Beer and Gingerale. But it does have a great liquor section. Plenty of local brews chilling in the wall coolers. I focused on the American whisky, sour mash and bourbon area but did notice a large Canadian whisky selection with names I have never seen. Picked up some Four Roses pretty cheap but you have to know your prices of other brands to secure a deal. Bottom line? Go for the booze and skip the rest.

    To echo Elfin's comments, I think there are a few items at Woodman's that might be worth a stop but overall, the place (at least the Kenosha location) is annoying 6 ways to Tuesday. I go there for New Glarus beer and a couple of WI-made guilty-pleasure cheese products, which certainly aren't artisanal in any way. It's mostly mass-produced stuff that can be had at many other (WI) retail outlets. For me, there's not much of note here. It's also annoying that they don't take credit cards. The space is huge but bigger isn't always better. And yes, at the moment, construction is making the place even more annoying than it ordinarily is. It might be worth a stop but definitely not worth a dedicated trip.

    =R=
    Same planet, different world
  • Post #17 - October 15th, 2013, 1:54 pm
    Post #17 - October 15th, 2013, 1:54 pm Post #17 - October 15th, 2013, 1:54 pm
    ronnie_suburban wrote:For me, there's not much of note here.


    For you, maybe, but my friends and I picked up a bottle of Malort there last weekend for $16.99, a full dollar less than most Chicago liquor stores (post-Malort renaissance markup). Not to mention the sales tax savings. Cha-ching!
    The meal isn't over when I'm full; the meal is over when I hate myself. - Louis C.K.
  • Post #18 - October 15th, 2013, 2:03 pm
    Post #18 - October 15th, 2013, 2:03 pm Post #18 - October 15th, 2013, 2:03 pm
    Teresa wrote:
    ronnie_suburban wrote:For me, there's not much of note here.


    For you, maybe, but my friends and I picked up a bottle of Malort there last weekend for $16.99, a full dollar less than most Chicago liquor stores (post-Malort renaissance markup). Not to mention the sales tax savings. Cha-ching!

    LOL! I sit corrected. :lol:

    =R=
    Same planet, different world
  • Post #19 - October 16th, 2013, 8:52 am
    Post #19 - October 16th, 2013, 8:52 am Post #19 - October 16th, 2013, 8:52 am
    Sine i live in the Town of Somers Wisconsin, I'm not too far from Woodman's and can offer a perspective on grocery shopping at Woodman's versus Chicago.
    To answer the OP succinctly, the answer is, no.
    Woodman's does not offer any type of meat, Deli or artisanal product that I would purchase.
    The produce is a good selection but certainly not up to the visual display at Fresh Farms on Touhy.
    For bakery it's commercial items and the split top hot dog buns are nothing special.
    It's usually a toss up between Binny's and Woodman's on brown and white spirits but if on sale at Binny's and you have a Binny's card, Binny's is usually cheaper. Saturday, I called ahead and picked up cases of Columbia Crest Two Vines for my wife, cheaper than Woodman's and then their are the Binny's points.
    The current manager of the Woodman's Liquor Department is not as accommodating as the previous manager who would order anything I wanted. If I really want beer, it's Discount Liquor in Milwaukee where I had to go recently to get 5 liter cans's of Hofbrau Oktoberfest.
    Fresh fish is pretty much non-existant at Woodman's and I pretty much purchase at Fresh Farms with live creatures at H-Mart.
    Woodman's strength is any canned, boxed or whatever mainstream product is usually cheaper and in many cases substantially cheaper at Woodman's.
    Household items the same.
    Woodman's does seem to carry a vast array of brands within any category.
    -Dick
  • Post #20 - October 17th, 2013, 12:31 pm
    Post #20 - October 17th, 2013, 12:31 pm Post #20 - October 17th, 2013, 12:31 pm
    Hi- Here is a link to a post that Jill Cataldo made over at her site last Spring reporting about her trip to Woodman's. In her post, she lists 3o items that are worth buying at Woodman's, and a few items to skip. They have Kikkoman's soy sauce for $1.09 all the time, and there are frequently $1 off coupons that you can print on line. She kind of lives near a Woodman's. She lives in Huntley, and so it is a lot more convenient for her to shop there than it is for most of the members on this site. She has people posting on her site that live near a Woodman's and love it. Like somebody said they have really cheap prices on a lot of the stuff in the middle of the store, and not so cheap prices on meat, produce and other stuff in the perimeter of the store. They supposedly have a large gluten free section with good prices, for people that are looking for that, and they have good prices on dairy substitutes, and have a much larger selection to choose from than Dominick's or Jewel. At another site I visit, somebody was looking for nondairy yogurt, and every time she went to Trader Joe's they were out of it. Somebody suggested that she visit Woodman's, but she said that she did not have a store near her.

    I know that she can go to WF, but I don't think she was willing to pay their prices.

    Here is the link to Jill's article about what to buy at Woodman's.

    http://jillcataldo.com/woodmans

    BTW- Woodman's does not take credit cards because they get charged by the credit card company when they get used at their store. Aldi's dpes not take credit cards either, although they do now take debit cards. I think Woodman's is a everyday low price store similar to Walmart. Woodman's also has a huge selection of some things such as condiments. They also have a ton of local products too.

    Hope this helps, Nancy
  • Post #21 - October 17th, 2013, 12:48 pm
    Post #21 - October 17th, 2013, 12:48 pm Post #21 - October 17th, 2013, 12:48 pm
    The thing that makes me shake my head about Woodman's is their bonkers cheese 'selection.' They have more kinds of bricks of mostly waxy, tasteless Wisconsin stuff. The store in Janesville had maybe six or seven tiny wedges/rolls of imported cheese.
    But there's *nothing* from the excellent, high-end Wisconsin cheese. Just nuts.

    Geo
    PS. One exception: they have a couple of versions of aged brick, which is wonderfully stinky in the olde Germanic fashion.
    Sooo, you like wine and are looking for something good to read? Maybe *this* will do the trick! :)
  • Post #22 - October 17th, 2013, 12:51 pm
    Post #22 - October 17th, 2013, 12:51 pm Post #22 - October 17th, 2013, 12:51 pm
    Geo wrote:The thing that makes me shake my head about Woodman's is their bonkers cheese 'selection.' They have more kinds of bricks of mostly waxy, tasteless Wisconsin stuff. The store in Janesville had maybe six or seven tiny wedges/rolls of imported cheese.
    But there's *nothing* from the excellent, high-end Wisconsin cheese. Just nuts.

    Geo
    PS. One exception: they have a couple of versions of aged brick, which is wonderfully stinky in the olde Germanic fashion.

    Yes, the store seems mainly filled with cheap, mass-produced calories and not much else.

    =R=
    Same planet, different world
  • Post #23 - October 17th, 2013, 1:22 pm
    Post #23 - October 17th, 2013, 1:22 pm Post #23 - October 17th, 2013, 1:22 pm
    Hi- A lot of people consider that cheese ok because that is all they are used to. I know a lot of people that only buy the Parmesan cheese in the can because that is all they are used to where as none of the people here would touch the stuff.

    There is a group that I sing with, and as one of our many fund raisers, we ask two different people every week to bring a gallon of juice, which we consume during our break and people are supposed to put some money in the cup for the juice. When I sign up to bring juice, I either buy a gallon of apple cider at the farmer's market or get it from my sister, or I buy two half gallons of decent orange or grapefruit juice such as Tropicana. The majority of the people that bring juice, bring the crap apple juice or white grape juice in the bottles that keep forever on the shelves. I brought juice this week, and I brought a gallon of Seedlings apple cider, and I had several people ask for seconds, where as the other person brought store brand white grape juice and apple juice from Walgreens. I paid $7 for mine, and I am sure she paid a lot less for hers.

    Hope this helps, Nancy
  • Post #24 - October 23rd, 2013, 9:17 pm
    Post #24 - October 23rd, 2013, 9:17 pm Post #24 - October 23rd, 2013, 9:17 pm
    Since I live not terribly far from N. Aurora I made the treck to Woodman's about a year or so ago. I enjoyed going there but I have not been back. I would not make a trip to go there for anything I could get in any other store, which is mostly what the article above features regardless of price. What I would go there for is some of their condiments, sauces, other bottled items that they have a huge selection of. I saw things at Woodman's I did not know were still being made, or are things that are very hard to find. Its probably worth a trip once a year.
    Toria

    "I like this place and willingly could waste my time in it" - As You Like It,
    W. Shakespeare
  • Post #25 - October 24th, 2013, 2:39 pm
    Post #25 - October 24th, 2013, 2:39 pm Post #25 - October 24th, 2013, 2:39 pm
    ronnie_suburban wrote:
    Geo wrote:The thing that makes me shake my head about Woodman's is their bonkers cheese 'selection.' They have more kinds of bricks of mostly waxy, tasteless Wisconsin stuff. The store in Janesville had maybe six or seven tiny wedges/rolls of imported cheese.
    But there's *nothing* from the excellent, high-end Wisconsin cheese. Just nuts.

    Geo
    PS. One exception: they have a couple of versions of aged brick, which is wonderfully stinky in the olde Germanic fashion.

    Yes, the store seems mainly filled with cheap, mass-produced calories and not much else.

    =R=


    All the stores I've been in have tons of those really cheap poor quality chunks from some cut-and-wrap outfit I've never seen anywhere else, but the cheese selection varies quite a bit from store to store. Up in metro Milwaukee the Monotony Falls store's better than Oak Creek -- it's not quite like going to a proper cheese shop but the Falls store has a decent selection of good Wisconsin cheeses (Crave Bros., Roth Käse, Sartori, Bel Gioioso among them) and some imports.

    budrichard wrote:Woodman's strength is any canned, boxed or whatever mainstream product is usually cheaper and in many cases substantially cheaper at Woodman's.
    Household items the same.
    Woodman's does seem to carry a vast array of brands within any category.
    -Dick


    I'll concur, and add the warning that you REALLY have to watch expiration dates at this place. Almost everything's just fine, but often enough to burn you if you're not observant, they'll buy an item that doesn't move very fast and it sits ... and sits ...

    I like that they carry North Dakota Mills flour. I don't think any other store in the Milwaukee area does. White Lily flour, too.
  • Post #26 - October 23rd, 2017, 12:08 pm
    Post #26 - October 23rd, 2017, 12:08 pm Post #26 - October 23rd, 2017, 12:08 pm
    The North suburban grocery parade continues. A Woodman’s is being built at Deerfield Rd. and Milwaukee Ave. It appears to be as big as all the other ones.
  • Post #27 - October 23rd, 2017, 12:21 pm
    Post #27 - October 23rd, 2017, 12:21 pm Post #27 - October 23rd, 2017, 12:21 pm
    lougord99 wrote:The North suburban grocery parade continues. A Woodman’s is being built at Deerfield Rd. and Milwaukee Ave. It appears to be as big as all the other ones.

    Thanks, Lou. I heard this news a while back (and drove by the site recently) but with them not able to sell New Glarus beer here, I'm filing this in the 'who cares' drawer.

    =R=
    Same planet, different world
  • Post #28 - October 23rd, 2017, 12:30 pm
    Post #28 - October 23rd, 2017, 12:30 pm Post #28 - October 23rd, 2017, 12:30 pm
    I too am 25 miles from the Kenosha Woodman's, and if I have a chance to combine a stop there with other stops on a Milwaukee/Racine/Kenosha outing, yes it is worth it to me, for three reasons: (1) no sales tax on food in Wisconsin, (2) lower taxes on liquor in Wisconsin than in Illinois, and (3) gas is cheaper in Wisconsin than in Illinois, so I fill up before I head back. Ideally at the Costco just down the road from Woodman's, where gas is even cheaper than at the stations near the highway.

    For all the above reasons, an existing Woodman's in Illinois isn't worth a 25+ mile trip to me, but I'm interested in checking out the new Woodman's in Deerfield when it opens, despite the above reasons, simply because I'm fascinated by the extensive pizza and cheese (and cheese spread) options at Woodman's. Agreed that paying Illinois/Lake County taxes, a Woodman's in Deerfield might not beat out other grocery stores closer to me -- but I am willing to wait and see what the prices are before passing judgment.

    Agree that in general, since the zero sales tax in Wisconsin is only on food, Woodman's in Kenosha is not necessarily a better buy for non-food household items.

    The Sitka Salmon Shares saleslady at the Libville farmer's market, who grew up in Antioch but went to college in Wisconsin, said that although the Woodman's in Kenosha is open 24/7, the liquor department closes at 9 pm. So, apparently, don't think you can stop by there late at night on the way home from Wells Brothers or Milwaukee and think you'll be able to stock up on your New Glarus. She gave me the impression this was a statewide law, no liquor sales after 9 pm in Wisconsin, but my sister says she doesn't think that was the case when she went to school there. But then, she says you can buy a six-pack in a bar in Wisconsin any time it's open, so maybe people don't notice when the grocery stores stop selling.
    "Your swimming suit matches your eyes, you hold your nose before diving, loving you has made me bananas!"
  • Post #29 - October 23rd, 2017, 1:59 pm
    Post #29 - October 23rd, 2017, 1:59 pm Post #29 - October 23rd, 2017, 1:59 pm
    Katie wrote:The Sitka Salmon Shares saleslady at the Libville farmer's market, who grew up in Antioch but went to college in Wisconsin, said that although the Woodman's in Kenosha is open 24/7, the liquor department closes at 9 pm. So, apparently, don't think you can stop by there late at night on the way home from Wells Brothers or Milwaukee and think you'll be able to stock up on your New Glarus. She gave me the impression this was a statewide law, no liquor sales after 9 pm in Wisconsin, but my sister says she doesn't think that was the case when she went to school there. But then, she says you can buy a six-pack in a bar in Wisconsin any time it's open, so maybe people don't notice when the grocery stores stop selling.


    If Woodman's won't sell you a six pack after 9, head across the highway to the Brat Stop. They'd be more than happy to sell you whatever you want until midnight (maybe as late as 2:30 AM on Friday & Saturday; call to double check).

    State of Wisconsin wrote:Wisconsin law requires that customers exit a place of business that serves alcohol by the closing hour. These closing hours are based on the type of Wisconsin liquor license your business holds:

    "Class A" License (Beer) — No sales allowed between 12:00 a.m. and 6:00 a.m.
    "Class A" License (Intoxicating Liquor Including Wine) – No sales allowed between 9:00 p.m. and 6:00 a.m.
    Class "B" , "Class B", or "Class C" License – Closing hours, no alcohol sales allowed:
    2:00 a.m. – 6:00 a.m. Monday through Friday
    2:30 a.m. – 6:00 a.m. Saturday and Sunday
    3:30 a.m. – 6:00 a.m. Second Sunday in March
    Businesses with a "wine only" license (i.e. wineries) may not sell alcohol between 9:00 p.m. and 8:00 a.m.
    Certain establishments – such as hotels, restaurants, bowling allies, etc. – that offer goods and services other than alcohol sales as their primary business may remain open after alcohol selling hours, as long as they stop serving or selling at the required times. In addition, businesses with Class "B" licenses may not sell packaged alcoholic beverages between 12:00 a.m. and 6:00 a.m.
    Steve Z.

    “Only the pure in heart can make a good soup.”
    ― Ludwig van Beethoven
  • Post #30 - October 23rd, 2017, 6:08 pm
    Post #30 - October 23rd, 2017, 6:08 pm Post #30 - October 23rd, 2017, 6:08 pm
    lougord99 wrote:The North suburban grocery parade continues. A Woodman’s is being built at Deerfield Rd. and Milwaukee Ave. It appears to be as big as all the other ones.

    Woodmans has also bought land at 191st & Harlem in Tinley Park.

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