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Whetstones, other tools for sharpening & maintaining knives?

Whetstones, other tools for sharpening & maintaining knives?
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  • Post #61 - March 24th, 2020, 10:57 am
    Post #61 - March 24th, 2020, 10:57 am Post #61 - March 24th, 2020, 10:57 am
    Unfortunately Korin has been deemed non essential and their store/warehouse is closed. Guess I'll have to wait to become a sharpening expert.
  • Post #62 - March 24th, 2020, 11:23 am
    Post #62 - March 24th, 2020, 11:23 am Post #62 - March 24th, 2020, 11:23 am
    WhyBeeSea wrote:Unfortunately Korin has been deemed non essential and their store/warehouse is closed. Guess I'll have to wait to become a sharpening expert.

    You can buy the King 1000/6000 grit on Amazon for $31.99. A good dual sided stone with which to start.
    Link
    One minute to Wapner.
    Raymond Babbitt

    Low & Slow
  • Post #63 - March 24th, 2020, 11:26 am
    Post #63 - March 24th, 2020, 11:26 am Post #63 - March 24th, 2020, 11:26 am
    WhyBeeSea wrote:Unfortunately Korin has been deemed non essential and their store/warehouse is closed. Guess I'll have to wait to become a sharpening expert.

    Well, that explains why Vincent finally had time to sharpen his own knife. :lol:

    The good news is that there are plenty of stones at chefknivestogo.com, and they are definitely open for business. IMO, there's no better company out there for these sorts of items. It's where I pretty much get all my knives and cutlery supplies. Tell Mark and Sue that Ronnie says hi! :)

    CKTG Sharpening Stones

    =R=
    By protecting others, you save yourself. If you only think of yourself, you'll only destroy yourself. --Kambei Shimada

    Every human interaction is an opportunity for disappointment --RS

    There's a horse loose in a hospital --JM

    That don't impress me much --Shania Twain
  • Post #64 - March 24th, 2020, 11:39 am
    Post #64 - March 24th, 2020, 11:39 am Post #64 - March 24th, 2020, 11:39 am
    Thanks all. I ended up buying a 1000/6000 dual stone on Amazon (the king one wasn't available til late April).

    I'm thinking I'll practice with this one on some of my lesser used knives and go from there.

    Eventually I wanna be able to sharpen the Misono carbon steel at home. I cut lefty so I'll be doing some research to make sure I do that properly.
  • Post #65 - March 24th, 2020, 11:56 am
    Post #65 - March 24th, 2020, 11:56 am Post #65 - March 24th, 2020, 11:56 am
    WhyBeeSea wrote:Thanks all. I ended up buying a 1000/6000 dual stone on Amazon (the king one wasn't available til late April).

    I'm thinking I'll practice with this one on some of my lesser used knives and go from there.

    Eventually I wanna be able to sharpen the Misono carbon steel at home. I cut lefty so I'll be doing some research to make sure I do that properly.

    If you don't want to wait, I strongly suggest checking out CKTG (I'm sure you can still cancel your Amazon order). You'll likely have your order by the end of the week. They've sent their crew home but per a post from earlier today, Mark and Sue, the owners, are there themselves packing and shipping orders. And if you have questions, you can call or email them. They're extraordinarily helpful. They have great inventory. Their prices are awesome and they offer free shipping on orders over $60.

    =R=
    By protecting others, you save yourself. If you only think of yourself, you'll only destroy yourself. --Kambei Shimada

    Every human interaction is an opportunity for disappointment --RS

    There's a horse loose in a hospital --JM

    That don't impress me much --Shania Twain
  • Post #66 - March 24th, 2020, 3:33 pm
    Post #66 - March 24th, 2020, 3:33 pm Post #66 - March 24th, 2020, 3:33 pm
    ronnie_suburban wrote:
    WhyBeeSea wrote:Thanks all. I ended up buying a 1000/6000 dual stone on Amazon (the king one wasn't available til late April).

    I'm thinking I'll practice with this one on some of my lesser used knives and go from there.

    Eventually I wanna be able to sharpen the Misono carbon steel at home. I cut lefty so I'll be doing some research to make sure I do that properly.

    If you don't want to wait, I strongly suggest checking out CKTG (I'm sure you can still cancel your Amazon order). You'll likely have your order by the end of the week. They've sent their crew home but per a post from earlier today, Mark and Sue, the owners, are there themselves packing and shipping orders. And if you have questions, you can call or email them. They're extraordinarily helpful. They have great inventory. Their prices are awesome and they offer free shipping on orders over $60.

    =R=


    Done and done!
  • Post #67 - March 24th, 2020, 3:40 pm
    Post #67 - March 24th, 2020, 3:40 pm Post #67 - March 24th, 2020, 3:40 pm
    Ended up ordering the imanshi 1000/6000 combo and a universal stone holder to get over the free shipping threshold
  • Post #68 - March 24th, 2020, 4:23 pm
    Post #68 - March 24th, 2020, 4:23 pm Post #68 - March 24th, 2020, 4:23 pm
    WhyBeeSea wrote:Ended up ordering the imanshi 1000/6000 combo and a universal stone holder to get over the free shipping threshold

    Excellent. As so many knowledgeable people recommend, master the 1000 and the rest will follow. In practical terms, as long as your knives are not damaged, the 1k should be enough to restore their edges really nicely. From there, the 6k will be a big jump but it should help you attain a nice fine edge with some polish to it. After that, if needed, you can strop it on anything from an old belt to denim.

    Looking forward to hearing how it goes. Be sure to test the knife on some paper before you sharpen it, so you can see how well the sharpening went.

    =R=
    By protecting others, you save yourself. If you only think of yourself, you'll only destroy yourself. --Kambei Shimada

    Every human interaction is an opportunity for disappointment --RS

    There's a horse loose in a hospital --JM

    That don't impress me much --Shania Twain
  • Post #69 - March 25th, 2020, 6:09 am
    Post #69 - March 25th, 2020, 6:09 am Post #69 - March 25th, 2020, 6:09 am
    Ronnie,

    How are you keeping the angle of the knife to the stone the same? I never found a guide that seemed to work, like there are for chisels, and freehand was always at best average for me.
  • Post #70 - March 26th, 2020, 1:10 pm
    Post #70 - March 26th, 2020, 1:10 pm Post #70 - March 26th, 2020, 1:10 pm
    As someone- who knows a thing or two about
    Grinding, Polishing and Cutting STEEL,
    ya'd think :? I would be the type to sharpen my own blades.

    You know, just because I "know-how-to-sew",
    doesn't mean I can't use The Korean Dry-Cleaner-Lady
    to mend something
    for me and charge me $5.00- or $10.00
    for it- right?

    Well- from now on- I am going to ONLY Sharpen my own blades.
    Why?
    ImageOversharpened by R. Kramer, on Flickr

    At the risk of sounding catty- and demeaning- I will only say- that a certain place on Lake Street- will no longer be seeing me- as a Customer for Sharpening.

    Here's what my Pocket Knife- my Every-Day-Carry looks like-
    compared to how it should look.
    ImageWhat happens when you don’t sharpen your own Knives > and Trusted a Cutlery Store in Chicago to grind-The-Shit-outta-one’s-Every-Day-Carry by R. Kramer, on Flickr

    Whetstones HERE I COME!
    No more- Visits to "The Butcher-of-Lake-Street".
  • Post #71 - March 26th, 2020, 1:29 pm
    Post #71 - March 26th, 2020, 1:29 pm Post #71 - March 26th, 2020, 1:29 pm
    Hombre de Acero wrote:What happens when you don’t sharpen your own Knives > and Trusted a Cutlery Store in Chicago to grind-The-Shit-outta-one’s-Every-Day-Carry.

    Man of Steel, that pic looks like it was machine ground, similar to Cozzini or Superior and their once a week restaurant knife exchange programs.

    I've been a customer of Northwestern Cutlery, who I'd guess you are talking about, for three decades and have never seen a commercial grinding machine there. I used Superior for years, have been in the Cozzini warehouse/workshop a few times, they are near my house, and am familiar with the type of sharpening shown.

    I don't doubt your experience, but that sure as hell foretells a major sea change for Northwestern Cutlery.
    One minute to Wapner.
    Raymond Babbitt

    Low & Slow
  • Post #72 - March 26th, 2020, 3:13 pm
    Post #72 - March 26th, 2020, 3:13 pm Post #72 - March 26th, 2020, 3:13 pm
    that pic looks like it was machine ground, similar to Cozzini or Superior and their once a week restaurant knife exchange programs.
    I've been a customer of Northwestern Cutlery, who I'd guess you are talking about, for three decades and have never seen a commercial grinding machine there.


    So- all Cutlery Stores like Northwestern use machines.
    Be it a rotating-Vertical-Grinding stone, or a Sanding Belt-Sander- it's all- "machines"- that they'll use- be it at- Northwestern Cutlery or Cozzinni (who my buddy's Metal-Shop makes/& repairs their Grinding-Machines, for)
    Point being- it's the human- who interfaces with that machine, that makes the difference. The person who took off to much- wasn't paying as close attention to his work, as he shoulda- IMHO.
    Point- being......they've lost their Building- the entire blocks been sold to Developers (at least that was what I was told- before The COVID-19-Market-Debacle) They'd looked to move still in Chicago- but won't be in that location for long- The Neighborhoods gotten too valuable around them, and I will learn to Zen-Out-With-a-Whetstone.

    I figure- if I can figure out- how to create a finish like this-
    in Steel......

    Imagedetail :: Hammered texture inset into steel frame-Demi-Lune Console © Randall KRAMER-2015 by R. Kramer, on Flickr

    I can learn to Master-A-Whetstone. 8)
  • Post #73 - March 26th, 2020, 3:53 pm
    Post #73 - March 26th, 2020, 3:53 pm Post #73 - March 26th, 2020, 3:53 pm
    Hombre de Acero wrote:I can learn to Master-A-Whetstone. 8)

    No doubt, no doubt in the least.

    I was not clear about what I meant by machine. Sure, of course, NW Cutlery uses a grinding wheel, belt sander, plus whetstones but there is a high degree of human interaction. Cozzini etc use a "machine" where you simply slide the knife in and the machine sets an edge in about 4-seconds, something like pictured below. A culinary comparison would be a pizza from a quality pizza joint vs frozen popped into a microwave.

    Sharpen2.jpg Sharpening "machine"


    I heard NW Cutlery was moving as well, it saddens, and surprises, me that they are in dial-in mode. I hope it was simply a one-off.

    Far as sharpening, I'm decent but still like a professional to touch up my working knives once a year or so. Also, if NW Cutlery has truly shit-the-bed, there is always Exact Blade.

    Exact Blade
    813 Waukegan Rd
    Northbrook, IL 60062
    847-920-7349
    https://exactblade.com/
    One minute to Wapner.
    Raymond Babbitt

    Low & Slow
  • Post #74 - March 26th, 2020, 6:21 pm
    Post #74 - March 26th, 2020, 6:21 pm Post #74 - March 26th, 2020, 6:21 pm
    I haven't been there for about 3 months, but I am still extremely happy with Exact Blade

    They also sell some really nice quality knives, 2 of which I have bought.
  • Post #75 - March 26th, 2020, 6:48 pm
    Post #75 - March 26th, 2020, 6:48 pm Post #75 - March 26th, 2020, 6:48 pm
    Got my stone from CKTG today so I'll start messing around it this weekend.

    Not sure how, but Korin has shipped the original stones I ordered, so I guess I'll a few different ones to play with!
  • Post #76 - March 26th, 2020, 9:09 pm
    Post #76 - March 26th, 2020, 9:09 pm Post #76 - March 26th, 2020, 9:09 pm
    WhyBeeSea wrote:Got my stone from CKTG today so I'll start messing around it this weekend.

    Not sure how, but Korin has shipped the original stones I ordered, so I guess I'll a few different ones to play with!

    Very exciting, at least it is to me! :D

    =R=
    By protecting others, you save yourself. If you only think of yourself, you'll only destroy yourself. --Kambei Shimada

    Every human interaction is an opportunity for disappointment --RS

    There's a horse loose in a hospital --JM

    That don't impress me much --Shania Twain
  • Post #77 - March 27th, 2020, 2:43 pm
    Post #77 - March 27th, 2020, 2:43 pm Post #77 - March 27th, 2020, 2:43 pm
    With the virus-induced downtime, Vincent at Korin has been uploading some phenomenally informative videos over at youtube. In his latest, he concisely details some of the key attributes of certain stones, including the best explanation I've seen to date about the difference between synthetic stones and natural stones (the latter of which, I own none). Still, from way down here in the rabbit hole, this was truly a delight to watch . . .


    Lets talk about sharpening stones!

    =R=
    By protecting others, you save yourself. If you only think of yourself, you'll only destroy yourself. --Kambei Shimada

    Every human interaction is an opportunity for disappointment --RS

    There's a horse loose in a hospital --JM

    That don't impress me much --Shania Twain
  • Post #78 - April 4th, 2020, 4:53 pm
    Post #78 - April 4th, 2020, 4:53 pm Post #78 - April 4th, 2020, 4:53 pm
    Here's my first update. Ive been messing around with the different whetstones and had varying succes.

    With my 50/50 knives (a couple shuns and misen), I can definitely see an improvement in sharpness and I can see myself getting better at this. A couple mishaps led to me scratching the body of my 8" chefs knife but no biggie, it's just cosmetic.

    Didnt have as much success with the Misono carbon steel. I know it's supposed to be more ground on one side and I just haven't figured it out yet. More learning and practice should help me here. I also wonder if I need a rougher stone than the 1000 that I'm starting w here.

    All in all, it's a fun new thing to learn. Looking forward to continuing to hone this skill. Pun 100% intended
  • Post #79 - April 4th, 2020, 4:54 pm
    Post #79 - April 4th, 2020, 4:54 pm Post #79 - April 4th, 2020, 4:54 pm
    Also, my knives still fail the paper test so I know I've got some work to do!
  • Post #80 - April 4th, 2020, 5:22 pm
    Post #80 - April 4th, 2020, 5:22 pm Post #80 - April 4th, 2020, 5:22 pm
    WhyBeeSea wrote:Also, my knives still fail the paper test so I know I've got some work to do!

    This is why I mentioned stropping above. It can make a huge difference. After you sharpen, you may still have a subtle burr on your edge, which will impede cutting, especially a paper test. Stropping, alternating single passes on both sides of the edge, can eliminate this and greatly improve your blade's cutting ability. If you have an old belt, give it a try. You don't even need any stropping compound to test its efficacy.

    =R=
    By protecting others, you save yourself. If you only think of yourself, you'll only destroy yourself. --Kambei Shimada

    Every human interaction is an opportunity for disappointment --RS

    There's a horse loose in a hospital --JM

    That don't impress me much --Shania Twain
  • Post #81 - April 4th, 2020, 5:37 pm
    Post #81 - April 4th, 2020, 5:37 pm Post #81 - April 4th, 2020, 5:37 pm
    You also want to try to remove the burr on each stone before moving onto the next one. I do stropping motions with light pressure on the stone before I go to the next grit.

    Regardless, the key is to keep at it. I probably tried sharpening the same knife a bunch of times before I felt I really improved it. Like I would do a sharpening session and then think "I'm not sure this is any better" and then re-do it another day. Eventually I learned and got better. I would concentrate on going slow and trying to maintain a consistent angle and consistent pressure throughout the blade. One mistake I made early on was doing big flourishing sweeping strokes at speed like I see on youtube videos. I wasn't ready for that. When I slowed down, I realized my angle and pressure was all over the place when I tried to go fast.

    I started out with Wusthof and my Misen knife (kind of like you), because I didn't want to "ruin" my better knives by trying to sharpen them. Eventually I got some advice that I might have an easier time figuring out what I was doing and what kind of impact it had on the angle if I tried sharpening "better" (e.g. carbon or other higher rockwell) steel. I did and it helped. I found it was much easier to form a burr and get to a consistent acute angle when the steel was sturdier and ground thin to begin with. Once I got the hang of it on carbon, I went back to the stainless blades and since I knew what I was looking for, I found I had an easier time of it.
  • Post #82 - April 4th, 2020, 6:02 pm
    Post #82 - April 4th, 2020, 6:02 pm Post #82 - April 4th, 2020, 6:02 pm
    This is all great advice! I know I've said it before but thanks for all the tips! This forum continues to be fantastic!

    I'll keep at it and hopefully I can be confident enough to provide advice in this space!
  • Post #83 - April 4th, 2020, 6:51 pm
    Post #83 - April 4th, 2020, 6:51 pm Post #83 - April 4th, 2020, 6:51 pm
    gastro gnome wrote:You also want to try to remove the burr on each stone before moving onto the next one. I do stropping motions with light pressure on the stone before I go to the next grit.

    Regardless, the key is to keep at it. I probably tried sharpening the same knife a bunch of times before I felt I really improved it. Like I would do a sharpening session and then think "I'm not sure this is any better" and then re-do it another day. Eventually I learned and got better. I would concentrate on going slow and trying to maintain a consistent angle and consistent pressure throughout the blade. One mistake I made early on was doing big flourishing sweeping strokes at speed like I see on youtube videos. I wasn't ready for that. When I slowed down, I realized my angle and pressure was all over the place when I tried to go fast.

    I started out with Wusthof and my Misen knife (kind of like you), because I didn't want to "ruin" my better knives by trying to sharpen them. Eventually I got some advice that I might have an easier time figuring out what I was doing and what kind of impact it had on the angle if I tried sharpening "better" (e.g. carbon or other higher rockwell) steel. I did and it helped. I found it was much easier to form a burr and get to a consistent acute angle when the steel was sturdier and ground thin to begin with. Once I got the hang of it on carbon, I went back to the stainless blades and since I knew what I was looking for, I found I had an easier time of it.

    All great advice. And so true about stainless blades. It's counter-intuitive because you want to start out learning on less expensive, easily-replaceable blades but when I firs started sharpening, those proved to be some of the most difficult ones to handle.

    One of the best pieces of sharpening advice I ever picked up was from Vincent, at the 6:03 mark in this Korin Knives video . . .


    Learn How To Sharpen: Episode 2 - Chef Knife

    That's when a light switch really flipped for me. My sharpening ability, which is still very much beginner, definitely went up a level or two after that. I'd been pressing too hard on the finer stones, effectively undoing the work I'd done on the coarser stones.

    =R=
    By protecting others, you save yourself. If you only think of yourself, you'll only destroy yourself. --Kambei Shimada

    Every human interaction is an opportunity for disappointment --RS

    There's a horse loose in a hospital --JM

    That don't impress me much --Shania Twain

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