Lougord99, I wonder if a paintless dent place could round that thing out cheaper than a new lid.

And on the Weber IPO, probably better than if they were bought by a hedge fund that would strip all the value out and just keep the brand name.

lougord99 wrote:Can't order a new one on-line so I am going to have to deal with their wonderful ( not ) phone system.

Why one cannot just order a new lid from them online is frustrating and beyond any reasonable explanation. Someone at Weber once tried to explain to me that it had something to do with voiding my warranty. I assured that person that I didn't care about the warranty on my 15-year-old kettle. I just wanted a new lid, which I needed because the old, cheaply made one had failed and was too cheaply made to be repaired easily. It really must come down to Weber doing everything possible to force consumers to purchase entirely new units.

tjr wrote:And on the Weber IPO, probably better than if they were bought by a hedge fund that would strip all the value out and just keep the brand name.

Perhaps but I suspect that both paths would further diminish quality and service while continuing to push pricing up. I don't begrudge them this IPO. I completely get it. But at this stage, what's good for the shareholders isn't necessarily what's best for the customers.

=R=

Weber has been majority owned by a private equity firm since 2010.
From a Bloomberg story carried by Crain's Chicago Business on July 12:

Weber launched its first grill in 1952. Since 2010, it’s been majority owned by BDT Capital Partners, the Chicago-based investment firm and merchant bank founded and led by Byron Trott.

Trott and BDT Capital Partners, as well as Weber’s management, are listed in the filing as being among its biggest shareholders. The company plans to use the IPO proceeds to buy back shares from its holding company and from some existing shareholders.

BDT has had majority control for 11 years and will continue to have majority control after the IPO thanks to a multi-class stock structure.

Joe Cahill's column on July 14 has more information as well as some reasons investors should avoid the IPO.

A planned initial public offering by Weber Inc. would give public investors a taste of the grill maker's red-hot growth.

But if company management can't keep the coals burning, outside shareholders won't have much power to call in a new chef. Like so many recent IPOs, Palatine-based Weber's deal effectively disenfranchises public investors through mechanisms that ensure insiders will retain control after the offering.

Most prominent among those insiders is BDT Capital, a Chicago-based investment firm run by Byron Trott, a former Goldman Sachs exec who earned fame as "Warren Buffett's favorite investment banker." Since launching BDT in 2009, Trott has made a specialty of buying into sizable private companies still controlled by founding families, helping them expand and eventually cash out some or all of their holdings. BDT's investments have included the Wrigley Building, Lou Malnati's, Culligan International, Athletico Physical Therapy, Peet's Coffee, Whataburger, and Tory Burch.

ekreider wrote:Weber has been majority owned by a private equity firm since 2010.
From a Bloomberg story carried by Crain's Chicago Business on July 12:

Weber launched its first grill in 1952. Since 2010, it’s been majority owned by BDT Capital Partners, the Chicago-based investment firm and merchant bank founded and led by Byron Trott.

Trott and BDT Capital Partners, as well as Weber’s management, are listed in the filing as being among its biggest shareholders. The company plans to use the IPO proceeds to buy back shares from its holding company and from some existing shareholders.

BDT has had majority control for 11 years and will continue to have majority control after the IPO thanks to a multi-class stock structure.

Joe Cahill's column on July 14 has more information as well as some reasons investors should avoid the IPO.

A planned initial public offering by Weber Inc. would give public investors a taste of the grill maker's red-hot growth.

But if company management can't keep the coals burning, outside shareholders won't have much power to call in a new chef. Like so many recent IPOs, Palatine-based Weber's deal effectively disenfranchises public investors through mechanisms that ensure insiders will retain control after the offering.

Most prominent among those insiders is BDT Capital, a Chicago-based investment firm run by Byron Trott, a former Goldman Sachs exec who earned fame as "Warren Buffett's favorite investment banker." Since launching BDT in 2009, Trott has made a specialty of buying into sizable private companies still controlled by founding families, helping them expand and eventually cash out some or all of their holdings. BDT's investments have included the Wrigley Building, Lou Malnati's, Culligan International, Athletico Physical Therapy, Peet's Coffee, Whataburger, and Tory Burch.

Thanks, for the additional information. That adds up and explains a lot about Weber's gradual but steady decline as a customer-friendly company.

=R=

So I ordered a new top on the phone today.

It was actually pretty painless. The guy wanted the serial number from my kettle, explaining that there are several varieties of 22" kettles and this would be sure they were sending the correct top. When I went outside and he was explaining to me where the serial number was, I lost the call because I have a wireless phone at home ( yes I still have a landline ) and I guess it lost the base when I was at the grill. He immediately called me back. Total time on the phone, including waiting for an agent was less than 15 minutes. I would give them a solid B+ to A- on handling the problem.

lougord99 wrote:So I ordered a new top on the phone today.

It was actually pretty painless. The guy wanted the serial number from my kettle, explaining that there are several varieties of 22" kettles and this would be sure they were sending the correct top. When I went outside and he was explaining to me where the serial number was, I lost the call because I have a wireless phone at home ( yes I still have a landline ) and I guess it lost the base when I was at the grill. He immediately called me back. Total time on the phone, including waiting for an agent was less than 15 minutes. I would give them a solid B+ to A- on handling the problem.

That's good to know. Still, I'm guessing that any variety of 22" lid would have fit on your grill (even if outfitted with different features than the original), since that measurement is fairly constant.

=R=

True, but I wanted the top only without accessories ( handle, and thermometer ). So the holes needed to be in the correct place for me to transfer from my old top to the new top.

About six years ago, one of the welds on the lid handle of my daily driver, a circa 2005 Jumbo Joe (the 'full size' 18" portable), broke. It had been threatening to give way for a while. I drilled it out and put in a stainless nut & screw along with a couple washers to hold it back together. Better than new! And I kicked myself for waiting until it actually broke since I'd been babying it for some time. Then, a year or two later, the other side busted through. Buzzt went my drill and a new set of hardware fixed it right up.

Yesterday, I was out cooking and my next door neighbor leaned over the fence to chat. I'd just put some stuff on and couldn't pause and was trying to converse while flipping zucchini planks and pushing shrimp around the various zones. I felt a little silly doing that hunched over a knee high grate. A portable grill was a necessity when I was in an apartment but I've got house now with a mostly covered patio for my outdoor cooking. I don't know that I'll get another 15+ years out of it but I don't see this grill going anywhere soon. It's a good size for my household and, with the welds fixed, it's hard to imagine anything else catastrophic bringing it to an end. It's just a quality product that's been a pleasure to use hundreds of times.

The chimney is the same age and the wire bottom is really getting thin. I've got a replacement chimney on deck but I'll keep using this one till the very end. I wouldn't be surprised if it lasts another season or two.

BrendanR wrote:About six years ago, one of the welds on the lid handle of my daily driver, a circa 2005 Jumbo Joe (the 'full size' 18" portable), broke. It had been threatening to give way for a while. I drilled it out and put in a stainless nut & screw along with a couple washers to hold it back together. Better than new! And I kicked myself for waiting until it actually broke since I'd been babying it for some time. Then, a year or two later, the other side busted through. Buzzt went my drill and a new set of hardware fixed it right up.

Yesterday, I was out cooking and my next door neighbor leaned over the fence to chat. I'd just put some stuff on and couldn't pause and was trying to converse while flipping zucchini planks and pushing shrimp around the various zones. I felt a little silly doing that hunched over a knee high grate. A portable grill was a necessity when I was in an apartment but I've got house now with a mostly covered patio for my outdoor cooking. I don't know that I'll get another 15+ years out of it but I don't see this grill going anywhere soon. It's a good size for my household and, with the welds fixed, it's hard to imagine anything else catastrophic bringing it to an end. It's just a quality product that's been a pleasure to use hundreds of times.

The chimney is the same age and the wire bottom is really getting thin. I've got a replacement chimney on deck but I'll keep using this one till the very end. I wouldn't be surprised if it lasts another season or two.

Yeah, that's very cool. And maybe it reflects, at least in part, why seeing this company evolve is bittersweet.

My daily driver is a ~30-year-old One-Touch Performer (hinged stainless cabinet) on which I've replaced the bottom of the kettle twice due to burn-through. I'm getting ready to replace it a third time and have now used some fender washers to temporarily plug the holes while I gather up the energy the make the repairs. But these pieces are parts of our lives (I've had this one for more than half of mine and longer than my son's been alive) and I guess that's what makes some of these changes so hard for me to accept.

=R=

Ron, I definitely hear you on the nostalgia value of an old Weber. I keep the 19" kettle I bought circa 1985 around as a spare for when whatever more modern gadget I'm using burns out. Then I get out the Weber and reminisce until I round up the money and initiative to replace it with something more interesting.

And at "the lake" we have my father-in-law's Weber. He's been gone for a dozen years but his grill lives on.

ronnie_suburban wrote:Well, sad to say that this news probably means that Weber is getting ready to jump the shark. I anticipate that prices will go up and that the quality of goods and service will continue their decline . . .

nasdaq.com wrote:Weber, a leading outdoor grilling brand, filed on Monday with the SEC to raise up to $100 million. However, the deal size is likely a placeholder for an IPO that we estimate could raise $1 billion.

Weber states that it is the leading outdoor cooking company, with a 20%+ share of the US and global global outdoor cooking markets in 2020. The company's product portfolio includes traditional charcoal grills, gas grills, smokers, pellet and electric grills, and recently its Weber Connect technology-enabled grills. Weber is the leader in the largest markets in outdoor cooking, and beyond these markets, estimates that it has either the number one or number two brand position in each of the key geographies it serves.

Outdoor grilling brand Weber files for an estimated $1 billion IPO

=R=

Weber Inc., showing the limits of barbecue grill makers going public, cut the size of its initial public offering by more than half and priced it below a marketed range to raise $250 million.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -to-fizzle

Email this afternoon from Weber, their second of the day . . .

in an email, Weber.com wrote:Dear Ronnie,

This morning you received our weekly "Recipe of the Week" email, which is sent to you every Friday.

In today's email we highlighted a grilled meatloaf recipe. At the time we shared this recipe with you, we were not aware of the unfortunate passing of American singer and actor Mr. Marvin Lee Aday, also known as Meat Loaf.

We want to express our deepest apologies for this oversight and for any offense this email may have caused.

We send our condolences to Mr. Aday's family and fans.

Thank you for understanding.

The Weber Family

=R=

Hi,

If people knew how often email blasts are planned and written in advance, I am sure this would be an unnecessary to even comment on this coincidence.

I am sure someone was offended.

Regards,
Cathy2

Based on what I’ve read about him, he would’ve LOVED a tribute recipe as his obit. And probably loved that ridiculous email apology even more. RIP Loaf.

I’m incredibly offended at Weber’s lack of foresight and rude insensitive behavior. I’m switching to Charbroil.

RIP Michael Lee Aday

G Wiv wrote:I’m incredibly offended at Weber’s lack of foresight and rude insensitive behavior. I’m switching to Charbroil.

RIP Michael Lee Aday

LOL! As we used to scream at the screen during the Rocky Horror Picture Show . . . "meatloaf again?!."

RIP Eddie.

=R=

Continuing a discussion that started on the dinner thread . . .

G Wiv wrote:

ronnie_suburban wrote:Grilling
Lump charcoal, direct cook, lots of flipping and rotating. It was done in minutes . . . just like it always is.

Steak on the wavy cast iron grate looks cool, that's a bonus point.

One thing I notice, same as on the BGE and such, is the cooking grate is a few inches below the kettle rim. Means you have to stick your hand in a hot grill and more chance of a burn on the side etc. Also harder to cleanly flip delicate proteins.

I have an extender for my BGE, works like a charm, and I notice there are grill hooks on the top part for higher placement.

I'm a Weber guy through and though, doesn't mean there isn't something better out there. Will be interested in your take on the Napoleon after 5-6 goes.

Yeah, fwiw, the steak sure looked cool!

You're correct about the position of the cooking grate. Looking closely, you'll see that there are actually 2 additional positions where the grate can be placed . . .


Cooking Grates In Lowest Position
Yes, when the grate is in this lowest position, it's a deep and inconvenient reach into the bowl to get to it. Those two additional, higher levels -- facilitated by flat pegs 'hardwired' into the extender above the bowl -- can also hold the grate, and they do provide easier access, even though the trade-off is that using them positions your food pretty far from the heat. Either way, that's a bit of adjustability that the Weber does not offer.

I plan to use the Napoleon exclusively for a while so I can really get to know it. But again, my initial impressions were not particularly favorable, and the thing just feels kind of chintzy.

I do like the hinged lid but it doesn't feel very solid. And I can see the advantages of the cast iron grates but they're heavy and not easily moved (especially not with one hand). But both of those features can be added to Webers on an after-purchase basis, so, IMO, they're not strong selling points for the Napoleon.

=R=

ronnie_suburban wrote:Looking closely, you'll see that there are actually 2 additional positions where the grate can be placed

Cooking Grates In Lowest Position
Yes, when the grate is in this lowest position, it's a deep and inconvenient reach into the bowl to get to it. Those two additional, higher levels -- facilitated by flat pegs 'hardwired' into the extender above the bowl -- can also hold the grate, and they do provide easier access, even though the trade-off is that using them positions your food pretty far from the heat.

So, can you leave the grate at the lowest position for cooking, and then, using some insulated mitts, fairly easily lift the grate up by those two handles to rest on those higher pegs to make it easier to remove the food? If so, could you do the same to lift the grate occasionally to rest on the higher pegs to flip the food? Or would all that be too much hassle?

Katie wrote:

ronnie_suburban wrote:Looking closely, you'll see that there are actually 2 additional positions where the grate can be placed

Cooking Grates In Lowest Position
Yes, when the grate is in this lowest position, it's a deep and inconvenient reach into the bowl to get to it. Those two additional, higher levels -- facilitated by flat pegs 'hardwired' into the extender above the bowl -- can also hold the grate, and they do provide easier access, even though the trade-off is that using them positions your food pretty far from the heat.

So, can you leave the grate at the lowest position for cooking, and then, using some insulated mitts, fairly easily lift the grate up by those two handles to rest on those higher pegs to make it easier to remove the food? If so, could you do the same to lift the grate occasionally to rest on the higher pegs to flip the food? Or would all that be too much hassle?

One could do this but it would be far more difficult, time-consuming and hazardous than just reaching in with (or without) a cooking mitt and bbq tongs and flipping the food in its place -- especially when cooking food that requires multiple turns.

The grates are heavy, they get very hot and they require two hands to move. The fastest, most-efficient and safest approach is to not handle them at all after they're hot. It's not particularly dangerous reaching in a bit deeper to manipulate the food. It just requires a bit of unlearning and extra care for those who are accustomed to cooking on Weber kettles.

=R=

Ah, that makes sense; I forgot about them being cast iron.

Katie wrote:Ah, that makes sense; I forgot about them being cast iron.

Yeah, plus think about certain foods that require multiple flips or turns during cooking. Having to raise and lower the grate several times for a grill full of skirt steaks or a bunch of sausages wouldn't really be practical, and that doesn't even take in account that sausages can roll!

=R=

Still getting my reps on the new Napoleon charcoal grill. The more I use it, the less I think it compares favorably with Weber. On the plus side, having 3 different available heights for the cooking grate could be useful, especially if you're inexperienced at fire control. Adding or reducing the distance between the cooking surface and the heat source could probably save an otherwise ill-fated cook or two.

On the downside, the top damper is centered, which means that when cooking indirect (which I do quite often), I cannot pull hot air from the side of the grill where the coals are nestled all the way across to the opposite side, so that it cooks food positioned to the off-side of the damper. On the Weber, the top damper is offset to one side, so hot air can be directed across the entirety of the cooking surface and therefore over all the food that's cooking.

Speaking of dampers, the Weber has 3 adjustable dampers on the bottom of the kettle. The Napoleon has none. Well, it has one that is centered and also doubles as the ash catcher. Not only does this reduce the ability to cook with a hotter fire because less oxygen can be drawn into the kettle but it also makes it really inconvenient to adjust because the only way to increase or decrease that opening is to reposition the entire ash catcher during a cook. This is not well thought out at all.

Even the apparently-convenient hinged lid on the Napoleon has a significant drawback. There's no way to leave it slightly ajar without using an additional, outside object to wedge it open. The completely removable Weber lid can be left open just a hair (or more), to increase heat and airflow if necessary. So, while the hinged lid provides some convenience, it reduces overall flexibility when it comes to cooking. I'm going to keep on keeping on with the Napoleon but at this point, I'm still finding reasons it just doesn't stack up favorably with the Weber.

=R=

"When you have to ask yourself 'tetanus or good barbecue?' that's the right smoker."

Ladies and gentlemen, Mr. Ben Hollar . . .


Almost Better Than A Tractor

=R=

Weber is currently patting themselves on the back with the release of some 70th Anniversary edition kettles. At $439 each, they're going for about twice the price of many of the standard 22" kettle varieties.

For that extra dough, you can chose one of four limited edition colors, plus you get some wood-like nylon handles (actually preferable to wood, imo), white wall wheels and a hood ornamentesque temperature gauge in the lid. It also comes with an ash catcher and lid bale, making it most analogous to the Master-Touch, which also includes those convenient features and currently runs at $275/each (or ~60% cheaper than the 70th's).

=R=

ronnie_suburban wrote:Weber is currently patting themselves on the back with the release of some 70th Anniversary edition kettles. At $439 each, they're going for about twice the price of many of the standard 22" kettle varieties.

For that extra dough, you can chose one of four limited edition colors, plus you get some wood-like nylon handles (actually preferable to wood, imo), white wall wheels and a hood ornamentesque temperature gauge in the lid. It also comes with an ash catcher and lid bale, making it most analogous to the Master-Touch, which also includes those convenient features and currently runs at $275/each (or ~60% cheaper than the 70th's).

=R=

Being the total cheapskate that I am, I bought the basic 22” grill and placed a galvanized bucket on the bottom triangular wire support (after removing the flimsy ash catcher). Ash problem solved, works better than the buggy Master Touch version.
No need for an inaccurate lid thermometer, all in for slightly more than half the price of a Master Touch…

cito wrote:

ronnie_suburban wrote:Weber is currently patting themselves on the back with the release of some 70th Anniversary edition kettles. At $439 each, they're going for about twice the price of many of the standard 22" kettle varieties.

For that extra dough, you can chose one of four limited edition colors, plus you get some wood-like nylon handles (actually preferable to wood, imo), white wall wheels and a hood ornamentesque temperature gauge in the lid. It also comes with an ash catcher and lid bale, making it most analogous to the Master-Touch, which also includes those convenient features and currently runs at $275/each (or ~60% cheaper than the 70th's).

=R=

Being the total cheapskate that I am, I bought the basic 22” grill and placed a galvanized bucket on the bottom triangular wire support (after removing the flimsy ash catcher). Ash problem solved, works better than the buggy Master Touch version.
No need for an inaccurate lid thermometer, all in for slightly more than half the price of a Master Touch…

Definitely. Nice work-arounds! As the following story indicates, the more you can do to come up with viable alternatives, the better off you'll be.

I recently had an issue with some back-ordered parts from Weber. Older parts, so I had to call, as they were not available on the website. That took some time but I got some good help and thought I was on my way.

However, my credit card had been hacked a few days after the order was placed and I received an email from Weber informing me that if I didn't call to update the payment method within a week, the order would be cancelled. No problem. Made perfect sense and not likely Weber's fault (unless they were responsible for my card getting hacked).

I called the number provided in the email and even though I had the order number, the CSR with whom I spoked required a lot of additional information from me beyond my name, the order number and my email address. Honestly, I think it was easier to get a mortgage. In any case, 20+ minutes later, after quite a bit of fumbling at Weber's end (and me being put on hold several times), I was able to provide them with the new cc number. The CSR didn't sound very confident and didn't seem too competent, so who knows if it actually took. I guess I'll find out soon enough.

=R=

ronnie_suburban wrote:I recently had an issue with some back-ordered parts from Weber. Older parts, so I had to call, as they were not available on the website. That took some time but I got some good help and thought I was on my way.

However, my credit card had been hacked a few days after the order was placed and I received an email from Weber informing me that if I didn't call to update the payment method within a week, the order would be cancelled. No problem. Made perfect sense and not likely Weber's fault (unless they were responsible for my card getting hacked).

I called the number provided in the email and even though I had the order number, the CSR with whom I spoked required a lot of additional information from me beyond my name, the order number and my email address. Honestly, I think it was easier to get a mortgage. In any case, 20+ minutes later, after quite a bit of fumbling at Weber's end (and me being put on hold several times), I was able to provide them with the new cc number. The CSR didn't sound very confident and didn't seem too competent, so who knows if it actually took. I guess I'll find out soon enough.

"Hilarious" post script to this escapade. 5 minutes after I got off the phone with them, I received yet another email from Weber informing me that there was a problem with my payment method. So, I called again. This time it took 18 minutes but the CSR seemed more confident and competent. I'm now up to 38+ minutes on the phone with Weber today and still have no solid idea if my order still exists in their system or when it will be delivered. Ugh.

=R=

ronnie_suburban wrote:However, my credit card had been hacked a few days after the order was placed and I received an email from Weber informing me that if I didn't call to update the payment method within a week, the order would be cancelled. No problem. Made perfect sense and not likely Weber's fault (unless they were responsible for my card getting hacked).

I called the number provided in the email and even though I had the order number, the CSR with whom I spoked required a lot of additional information from me beyond my name, the order number and my email address. Honestly, I think it was easier to get a mortgage. In any case, 20+ minutes later, after quite a bit of fumbling at Weber's end (and me being put on hold several times), I was able to provide them with the new cc number. The CSR didn't sound very confident and didn't seem too competent, so who knows if it actually took. I guess I'll find out soon enough.

=R=

I have a feeling that a call to Weber is also in my future. I have a Genesis gasser that has a rusting rectangular deflector thingy that is nowhere to be found in any exploded diagram that I’ve seen…

cito wrote:I have a feeling that a call to Weber is also in my future. I have a Genesis gasser that has a rusting rectangular deflector thingy that is nowhere to be found in any exploded diagram that I’ve seen…

That may mean that the part has been discontinued . . . or maybe not. But parts I needed that were not on the schematic were, in fact, no longer available.

=R=

ronnie_suburban wrote:

cito wrote:I have a feeling that a call to Weber is also in my future. I have a Genesis gasser that has a rusting rectangular deflector thingy that is nowhere to be found in any exploded diagram that I’ve seen…

That may mean that the part has been discontinued . . . or maybe not. But parts I needed that were not on the schematic were, in fact, no longer available.

=R=

Splendid…