budrichard wrote:Like many things, it’s a journey with a generally happy ending.

So true. I used good ingredients and while the outcome was not what I was shooting for, it ended up being a delicious "mistake."

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pairs4life wrote: One of my favorites is from Milk Street. It is a satisfying chocolate chip for grownups. I don't know why but you eat one and feel like wow that was delicious and you don't need to eat 12 more right behind it. It includes a smidge of rye. And rye is a favorite of mine. I do toast the rye. And the rye gets buttered which is interesting. I skip the nuts.

https://www.jsonline.com/story/life/foo ... 350783001/

I had a rye chocolate chip cookie in Portland Maine last year, it's a good flavor combo.

pairs4life wrote:The other is the Perfect Chocolate Chip Cookie from ATK. The butter is browned and it is glorious. The stir and rest is a thing but I do adore this cookie as well. Additionally, this one does include brown sugar.
And you only bake one tray at a time.

https://www.americastestkitchen.com/rec ... ip-cookies

It will be a good cookie, although I tend not to love crisp or chewy. I am also not the biggest lover of chocolate but both of these I adore.

NFriday wrote:Hi- I baked the Perfect Chocolate Chip Cookies at Christmas time, and every body in my family loved them, but they are not like what Ronnie is looking for.

Well, I'm really glad you both threw this out there. It seemed like a good (new) starting point and it was. These were probably 85-90% of the way to my target and either way, they are great cookies . . .


Chocolate Chip Cookies

I've had very little success with ATK recipes, so the fact that they turned out so nicely was a pleasant surprise. They were chewy, slightly crispy around the outside and really delicious. The browned butter had a major, positive impact on the final product, adding a great toffee note. I've read at least a few baking blogs (since I dropped into this rabbit hole) that claimed this step had little or no effect on the final product. The writers of those blogs have either no idea what they're talking about, dead palates or both. It is quite pronounced and adds a lot to the cookies.

Up next, I plan to make these one more time -- by the book -- before trying to adjust the recipe to my exact preferences. Fwiw, this time around, I used Land O Lakes unsalted butter and Guittard semisweet (46%) chips.

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I love happy endings. Bravo, Ronnie. I’ve made the same recipe and my memory of it was that as written it provides for a relatively restrained %volume of chocolate chips. Your photos seem to bear this out. Will you tweak the ratio next time?

Interesting thread, but I (personally) would be fascinated to learn what went wrong. Based on my hemi-demi-semi years of experience, I am inclined to agree with Bok Choy about the butter. I bought Kerrygold once or twice and never again--I found both taste and texture off-putting. That said, even if you love the butter, European butters are different animals than American butters. For better or worse, when baking something like cookies, I tend to stick with tried-and-true. In this case that would mean Land O'Lakes. We keep several different kinds of butters on hand, and I tend to use European butters for other (pastry) applications.
The other thing that seems to ring not quite true to me is the use of vinegar. I understand completely why it's there (and it or something like it had to be) and I've used it before in baking various things, but it seems...odd...to me for cookies. I wonder if it didn't give more of a reaction than usually called for.
Finally, in the interest of adding to the "great" recipe suggestions, I will add (1) the recipe on the back of the Toll House morsel package and (2) Jacques Torres's recipe.
Good luck!

Hey Ronnie, I still have to bake the David Lebovitz cookies. I can tell you that the Alton Brown cookies are not what you are looking for. The Tate cookies from Stella Parks at Serious Eats are good, but they didn't stay crisp for me like she said they would. Not sure if I didn't pack them up soon enough or what, but they are a good cookie, if a bit "greasy" from all the butter. I sure have to wash my hands after eating one. The pictures I took of them didn't turn out well, so I haven't bothered to send them to you. Got the oven on now, so will be baking in an hour or so, I'll get back to you later today.

Bok Choy Jr wrote:I love happy endings. Bravo, Ronnie. I’ve made the same recipe and my memory of it was that as written it provides for a relatively restrained %volume of chocolate chips. Your photos seem to bear this out. Will you tweak the ratio next time?

Well, naturally, part of the issue is user error. I once again failed to achieve equal (or even near-equal) distribution of chips in the cookies. Another issue is that the ATK recipe is behind a paywall. Even though it has been reprinted in numerous other places, there is some inconsistency among those reprints. Most of the ones I found call for 1.25 C of chips, which is what I went with. And yes, in the end, that seems too low. I'll be increasing it in the future. Either way, I greatly prefer weights in recipes. With none given and chip size varying by manufacturer, this is going to come down to trial and error. Thanks again, btw, for the butter knowledge. I really appreciate it.

Gypsy Boy wrote:Interesting thread, but I (personally) would be fascinated to learn what went wrong. Based on my hemi-demi-semi years of experience, I am inclined to agree with Bok Choy about the butter. I bought Kerrygold once or twice and never again--I found both taste and texture off-putting. That said, even if you love the butter, European butters are different animals than American butters. For better or worse, when baking something like cookies, I tend to stick with tried-and-true. In this case that would mean Land O'Lakes. We keep several different kinds of butters on hand, and I tend to use European butters for other (pastry) applications.
The other thing that seems to ring not quite true to me is the use of vinegar. I understand completely why it's there (and it or something like it had to be) and I've used it before in baking various things, but it seems...odd...to me for cookies. I wonder if it didn't give more of a reaction than usually called for.
Finally, in the interest of adding to the "great" recipe suggestions, I will add (1) the recipe on the back of the Toll House morsel package and (2) Jacques Torres's recipe.
Good luck!

Thanks, Dave. Lurpak, Plugra, President, etc. I think I've used them all but after being a loyal Plugra fan for a number of years, I switched to Kerrygold. I like it the best. But as you say -- and as Bok Choy Jr posted upthread -- these types of butters may just not work well in certain recipes. Land O Lakes worked out very well but I'm unlikely to try the ATK recipe with European butter or to take another stab at the KA recipe, period.

I never even considered the Toll House recipe because I just assumed that the way the food universe has evolved, there were better ones out there. Maybe I'll give it a try. As for Jacques Torres, it's unlikely to happen. I've had those cookies (baked by a friend) and they are great but the required 24-72 fridge time before baking is a total deal-breaker for me. One great thing about baking cookies is that not much advance planning is required. I can bake them impulsively and can go from wanting them to having them in about an hour. Not even close with the Torres recipe/method.

Xexo wrote:Hey Ronnie, I still have to bake the David Lebovitz cookies. I can tell you that the Alton Brown cookies are not what you are looking for. The Tate cookies from Stella Parks at Serious Eats are good, but they didn't stay crisp for me like she said they would. Not sure if I didn't pack them up soon enough or what, but they are a good cookie, if a bit "greasy" from all the butter. I sure have to wash my hands after eating one. The pictures I took of them didn't turn out well, so I haven't bothered to send them to you. Got the oven on now, so will be baking in an hour or so, I'll get back to you later today.

I love watching Alton Brown because he's affable and entertaining but much like with ATK, I've learned that his recipes and methods are not a good match for my preferences. They seem overly complicated and rarely taste good. I hadn't eliminated trying them but there's nothing compelling me, either. The Stella Parks take on Tates, however, is definitely on the radar. As I mentioned to you earlier, as humid as it is this time of year, nothing seems to get or stay crisp. Of course, that wasn't the case with the batch that inspired this thread. They are damned crispy but not necessarily in a good way. I'll be curious to know how the Lebovitz batch turns out.

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I know everyone is making me very hungry for these cookies, allow me to throw out another recipe that went over very well with my family from King Arthur Flour...
Oatmeal Chocolate Chip Cookies.
https://www.kingarthurflour.com/recipes/chocolate-chip-oatmeal-cookies-recipe

Here are the David Lebovitz Chocolate Chip Cookies I finally baked today. David Lebovitz's take on Joanne Chang's Chocolate Chip cookies. This first picture is ones that were around 40 grams of dough, David recommends 45 grams.

And here is one, broken in half, of about 20 grams.

The 20 gram cookies baked up very crispy!

I found this a good recipe and will make them again. I think the Tate cookie from Stella Parks has a slightly better taste, but not the crispness of these. Maybe I need to bake the Tate cookies a bit long to get that crispness. I will have to try another batch, later. Tate's-Style Thin and Crispy Chocolate Chip Cookies Recipe

And just to mention again, I won't bother with the Alton Brown recipe again. Not anywhere near as good as these two recipes.

Xexo wrote:And just to mention again, I won't bother with the Alton Brown recipe again. Not anywhere near as good as these two recipes.

I really appreciate your enthusiasm for this project.

My Dad favors crisp just about anything. Once you pronounce your gold standard, I will make a batch.

Thanks!

Regards,
Cathy2

Xexo wrote:Here are the David Lebovitz Chocolate Chip Cookies I finally baked today . . .

Wow, those look really great! Definitely going to put that recipe in the queue.

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YUM! That is my ideal, Xexo.

If it wasn't going to be so hot this weekend, I might have to bake some cookies.

I want to play!

Chocolate chip cookies made with black walnuts cracked and gifted by brother in-law Nick.

ATK "perfect" recipe with brown butter.






Chocolate Chip Cookies, count me a Fan!

G Wiv wrote:I want to play!

Chocolate chip cookies made with black walnuts cracked and gifted by brother in-law Nick.

ATK "perfect" recipe with brown butter.

Chocolate Chip Cookies, count me a Fan!

Looking good there Mr. Wiviott.

G Wiv wrote:Chocolate chip cookies made with black walnuts cracked and gifted by brother in-law Nick.

ATK "perfect" recipe with brown butter.

Nice, really nice!

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The David Lebovitz cookies are still crisp/crunchy! And good. I'm liking them better than the Tate cookie (but I'm putting more vanilla in them next time - maybe use vanilla sugar too?), but you got to try them for yourself.

Xexo wrote:The David Lebovitz cookies are still crisp/crunchy!

Good looking cookie!

G Wiv wrote:

Xexo wrote:The David Lebovitz cookies are still crisp/crunchy!

Good looking cookie!

Thank you. You are too kind.

Even though I prefer chocolate chip, my son is not a big fan of chocolate, so I'm continuing to make the Oatmeal-Raisins for him. This time I used Land O Lakes butter instead of Kerrygold. That change didn't seem to make much of a difference but using a 2T trigger scoop instead of dropping them with tablespoons did. Ended up with very uniform cookies that were more domed and cakey than previous batches . . .


Oatmeal, Rum-Raisin & Toasted Pecan Cookies
40 cookies that were almost identical in size and shape. Even though they were delicious, I'm not sure that's a good thing.


Oatmeal, Rum-Raisin & Toasted Pecan Cookies
Serving Suggestion

Next time, I'll probably use the scoop again because it's easier and quicker but I'll tamp them down before baking, just to mitigate the doming and encourage spreading. I'm also going to use the browned butter technique from the ATK chocolate chip cookie recipe and see what impact it has. I imagine that extra toffee note will work really well with these cookies.

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If it helps any, try using 1 pound of sugar, with a higher amount of white sugar than brown, and .75 pounds of flour in a small batch. Try lowering the oven temp to 325, non convection, and bake the cookies for 20 - 25 minutes. Keep the dough cold. For the oatmeal raisin cookies, just use a chocolate chip dough with oatmeal and raisins added, leaving the chips out. See if any of these helps. Best of luck.

Xexo wrote:If it helps any, try using 1 pound of sugar, with a higher amount of white sugar than brown, and .75 pounds of flour in a small batch. Try lowering the oven temp to 325, non convection, and bake the cookies for 20 - 25 minutes. Keep the dough cold. For the oatmeal raisin cookies, just use a chocolate chip dough with oatmeal and raisins added, leaving the chips out. See if any of these helps. Best of luck.

Thanks -- good suggestions -- but I think I already have this one relatively dialed in. I merely wanted to experiment by subbing in the American butter. It seems interchangeable with the Kerrygold. The scoop, I used because I'd just used it for the chocolate chip cookies and thought it would make the process easier. It did, but not without some unforeseen side effects. If I revert to no scoop, these cookies are just about perfect for my preferences. But maybe I can get the desired results -- and still use the scoop -- if I tamp down the uncooked dough just a bit before baking. As for the browned butter, that'll solely be for flavor. We shall see. Gotta get rid of a bunch of these before I can move on to the next batch.

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Kind of surprised to see the negative opinions of ATK (and somewhat Kenji) here. I think ATK baking recipes of the last 8 years or so are in general fantastic and I do a lot of baking. Their savory recipes are often not bold enough for me, but they have been changing on that front with a lot of fairly authentic Asian recipes.

I also think Kenji's fussiness has diminished a lot, maybe to the opposite spectrum. He used to tackle "projects" but his last Serious Eats post and his time at NYT are fairly simple and not that interesting (to me anyway). I think Kenji, like a number of other food writers, originally grappled with translating restaurant complexity to home cooking.

Anyways on cookies. The ATK and Kenji CCC are VERY similar and both very good and what I want in a CCC though I would add a bit more chocolate. Kenji's adds a bit of lift by foaming the eggs. You could also try creaming the cooled browned butter (though this might take too long given your cookie impatience). I really do feel like some amount of aging of the dough makes a better CCC. Like a lot of Stella's recipes, I think her classic CCC are too sweet.

I don't feel comfortable recommending a Levain style cookie (I don't get these at all) or thin crispy versions (haven't made enough), but I like to target a bake with crispy edges and tender interior.

HI,

Some critics are loud and repetitive, but I am quite happy with ATK and Kenji. I also am a fan of Harold McGee and Shirley Corriher.

When the science behind a reaction or how an ingredient's presence or absence can change the outcome, it helps improve your cooking overall.

It's a good day when I learn something new.

Regards,
Cathy2

Cathy2 wrote:Some critics are loud and repetitive . . .

As are some fans.

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botd wrote:Like a lot of Stella's recipes, I think her classic CCC are too sweet.

Violent agreement. I think Stella is great and make her recipes often, but I usually find it necessary to cut down the sugar by 1/4-1/3.

cilantro wrote:

botd wrote:Like a lot of Stella's recipes, I think her classic CCC are too sweet.

Violent agreement. I think Stella is great and make her recipes often, but I usually find it necessary to cut down the sugar by 1/4-1/3.

I find that I'm cutting the amount of sugar in just about every cookie recipe I make. Always follow them 100% the first time but after that, I starting cutting the amount of sugar in 10% increments each time I make them, until I dial it in to where I want it.

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Baked up another batch of the ATK "Perfect" Chocolate Chip Cookies, this time with toasted pecans and Callebaut 54.5% chips . . .


Chocolate Chip Cookies w/Toasted Pecans

I think that's a wrap on this recipe, at least for a while. If it's not "perfect," it's pretty darned close but I need to move on to some other stuff. These are really good (especially on the day they're baked) but I have at least four more chocolate chip cookie recipes that I want to try.

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ronnie_suburban wrote:Baked up another batch of the ATK "Perfect" Chocolate Chip Cookies, this time with toasted pecans and Callebaut 54.5% chips . . .


Chocolate Chip Cookies w/Toasted Pecans

I think that's a wrap on this recipe, at least for a while. If it's not "perfect," it's pretty darned close but I need to move on to some other stuff. These are really good (especially on the day they're baked) but I have at least four more chocolate chip cookie recipes that I want to try.

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Those look good. Not what I thought you were going for, but then I've been told no one's mind works like mine. Do let us know how the other four recipes turn out.

Xexo wrote:Those look good. Not what I thought you were going for . . .

They are not, which is exactly why I'm moving on. However, they are damned good, so that's a pleasure unto itself. Not only are they delicious but they seem to make those I give them too very happy. And I'm very happy that I tried the recipe because it really helped me establish a more clear baseline for myself. The way that first batch of KA cookies turned out was so far off-target, it would have been a long and fruitless journey from there to my ideal cookie destination. These are much closer and -- especially for a beginner like me -- the additional technique involved was educational, informative and valuable.

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ronnie_suburban wrote:

Xexo wrote:Those look good. Not what I thought you were going for . . .

They are not, which is exactly why I'm moving on. However, they are damned good, so that's a pleasure unto itself. Not only are they delicious but they seem to make those I give them too very happy. And I'm very happy that I tried the recipe because it really helped me establish a more clear baseline for myself. The way that first batch of KA cookies turned out was so far off-target, it would have been a long and fruitless journey from there to my ideal cookie destination. These are much closer and -- especially for a beginner like me -- the additional technique involved was educational, informative and valuable.

I am glad you like them. Try the rye one from Milk Street. And then I think Stella Park's take on Tate's. I just had Tate's Oatmeal Raisin which were very good but only crispy and crackly along the edges. The center being far chewier. Are their chocolate chip cookies similar?