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ISO pickling guidance - after the pickling

ISO pickling guidance - after the pickling
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  • ISO pickling guidance - after the pickling

    Post #1 - July 15th, 2020, 4:01 pm
    Post #1 - July 15th, 2020, 4:01 pm Post #1 - July 15th, 2020, 4:01 pm
    Hi all,

    Just finished fermenting my first-ever batch of dill pickles and it went really well. The pickles are done but now what? What's the best way to store them in the fridge? I was thinking I'd strain the pickling liquid, boil it, let it cool and then cover the pickles with it in a Ball jar. Good idea? What's the in-the-know method?

    Thanks,

    =R=
    By protecting others, you save yourself. If you only think of yourself, you'll only destroy yourself. --Kambei Shimada

    Every human interaction is an opportunity for disappointment --RS

    There's a horse loose in a hospital --JM

    That don't impress me much --Shania Twain
  • Post #2 - July 15th, 2020, 4:17 pm
    Post #2 - July 15th, 2020, 4:17 pm Post #2 - July 15th, 2020, 4:17 pm
    That's exactly what I do.
  • Post #3 - July 15th, 2020, 5:15 pm
    Post #3 - July 15th, 2020, 5:15 pm Post #3 - July 15th, 2020, 5:15 pm
    National Center for Food Preservation

    For research based canning, freezing and preserving information:

    National Center for Food Preservation

    If you want to retain as much crispness as possible, look at the instructions on low temperature Pasteurization.

    Regards,
    Cathy2
    Cathy2

    "You'll be remembered long after you're dead if you make good gravy, mashed potatoes and biscuits." -- Nathalie Dupree
    Facebook, Twitter, Greater Midwest Foodways, Road Food 2012: Podcast
  • Post #4 - July 15th, 2020, 6:34 pm
    Post #4 - July 15th, 2020, 6:34 pm Post #4 - July 15th, 2020, 6:34 pm
    Cathy2 wrote:National Center for Food Preservation

    For research based canning, freezing and preserving information:

    National Center for Food Preservation

    If you want to retain as much crispness as possible, look at the instructions on low temperature Pasteurization.

    Regards,
    Cathy2

    Thank you but I'm not planning on pasteurizing or canning. I really want these to stay crisp, plus I only made 1 pound! :)

    =R=
    By protecting others, you save yourself. If you only think of yourself, you'll only destroy yourself. --Kambei Shimada

    Every human interaction is an opportunity for disappointment --RS

    There's a horse loose in a hospital --JM

    That don't impress me much --Shania Twain
  • Post #5 - July 15th, 2020, 6:46 pm
    Post #5 - July 15th, 2020, 6:46 pm Post #5 - July 15th, 2020, 6:46 pm
    I leave them in the liquid. They will go squishy. But you only made a pound you will be done with them before they do.

    Mine last with an audible crunch for months. Same brine they were fermented in. No boling, no fuss, no muss and in a glass jar.

    PS Don't worry if your garlic went blue. It's fine.
    Ava-"If you get down and out, just get in the kitchen and bake a cake."- Jean Strickland

    Horto In Urbs- Falling in love with Urban Vegetable Gardening
  • Post #6 - July 15th, 2020, 9:14 pm
    Post #6 - July 15th, 2020, 9:14 pm Post #6 - July 15th, 2020, 9:14 pm
    Hi,

    If you are happy with the pickles, you want to stop the fermentation. Refrigerating will do this.

    If it is only a pound, you can stick them into a clean container and refrigerate.

    I have heard of people keeping a crock in a cool space, then taking them as they need them.

    Regards,
    Cathy2
    Cathy2

    "You'll be remembered long after you're dead if you make good gravy, mashed potatoes and biscuits." -- Nathalie Dupree
    Facebook, Twitter, Greater Midwest Foodways, Road Food 2012: Podcast
  • Post #7 - July 15th, 2020, 9:23 pm
    Post #7 - July 15th, 2020, 9:23 pm Post #7 - July 15th, 2020, 9:23 pm
    Cathy2 wrote:Hi,

    If you are happy with the pickles, you want to stop the fermentation. Refrigerating will do this.

    If it is only a pound, you can stick them into a clean container and refrigerate.

    I have heard of people keeping a crock in a cool space, then taking them as they need them.

    Regards,
    Cathy2

    Used to see this all the time in delis, etc. Self-service pickle barrels on the floor in the storefront. I guess they're still around. Is there anything short of refrigeration that would prevent additional gunk from continuing to form on the surface, or is removing that a perpetual task?

    C2, when storing refrigerated, do use any sort of liquid?

    I think they are canned but your bread and butters are some of the best pickles I've ever had.

    =R=
    By protecting others, you save yourself. If you only think of yourself, you'll only destroy yourself. --Kambei Shimada

    Every human interaction is an opportunity for disappointment --RS

    There's a horse loose in a hospital --JM

    That don't impress me much --Shania Twain
  • Post #8 - July 16th, 2020, 5:27 am
    Post #8 - July 16th, 2020, 5:27 am Post #8 - July 16th, 2020, 5:27 am
    Now that Bobak’s store is gone, Andy’s Deli has pickle, kraut and herring barrels, harking back to stores’ 60 years ago.
    As to scum on pickling containers, a Harsch type crock with a water seal works quite well.
    Harsch is defunct but there is another supplier on the market available from Germany
    https://www.amazon.com/harsch-crock/s?k=harsch+crock
    The typical crock sold in the US using a plate for a seal, of course ends up with mung on the top.
    With a water seal, all you do is keep the annulus full of water and the CO2 generated by fermentation bubbles through the water and O2 is eliminated.
    We do kraut and last year did 30 liters in our 10 and 20 l Harsch crocks.
    No mung what so ever.
    -Richard
  • Post #9 - July 16th, 2020, 5:46 am
    Post #9 - July 16th, 2020, 5:46 am Post #9 - July 16th, 2020, 5:46 am
    pairs4life wrote:I leave them in the liquid. They will go squishy. But you only made a pound you will be done with them before they do.


    Same here. No boiling, no fussin', no nothin'. Stick 'em in the fridge and eat 'em. That pound will be gone even faster than you'd think.
    Gypsy Boy

    "I am not a glutton--I am an explorer of food." (Erma Bombeck)
  • Post #10 - July 16th, 2020, 9:54 am
    Post #10 - July 16th, 2020, 9:54 am Post #10 - July 16th, 2020, 9:54 am
    Gypsy Boy wrote:
    pairs4life wrote:I leave them in the liquid. They will go squishy. But you only made a pound you will be done with them before they do.


    Same here. No boiling, no fussin', no nothin'. Stick 'em in the fridge and eat 'em. That pound will be gone even faster than you'd think.

    My liquid is very cloudy. How about yours? Is that an indication of anything meaningful?

    Thanks,

    =R=
    By protecting others, you save yourself. If you only think of yourself, you'll only destroy yourself. --Kambei Shimada

    Every human interaction is an opportunity for disappointment --RS

    There's a horse loose in a hospital --JM

    That don't impress me much --Shania Twain
  • Post #11 - July 16th, 2020, 10:13 am
    Post #11 - July 16th, 2020, 10:13 am Post #11 - July 16th, 2020, 10:13 am
    Cloudy is normal.

    I really only boil when there is mold/scum. I make a lot of small batches of fermented stuff that don’t have any scum and I don’t boil. But, in my experience, pickles that have been sitting for a month tend to have it.
  • Post #12 - July 16th, 2020, 10:32 am
    Post #12 - July 16th, 2020, 10:32 am Post #12 - July 16th, 2020, 10:32 am
    budrichard wrote:With a water seal, all you do is keep the annulus full of water and the CO2 generated by fermentation bubbles through the water and O2 is eliminated.

    I have been using a proper pickling crock similar (identical?) to those you linked to with a conventional, 2-piece plate seal. Curious about water seals, though. Can you please elaborate?

    Darren72 wrote:Cloudy is normal.

    I really only boil when there is mold/scum. I make a lot of small batches of fermented stuff that don’t have any scum and I don’t boil. But, in my experience, pickles that have been sitting for a month tend to have it.

    Got it - thank you. What I had was just a thin surface film. I'd been pretty diligent about keeping it clear throughout the fermentation process, so there wasn't much there. I strained-boiled-cooled enough of it to cover the pickles. The rest, I strained once through a colander (to save the garlic, dill, peppercorns, etc) then again through a coffee filter. I added that all back together and am saving iy separately in its own jar in the fridge. For what purpose, I'm not quite sure . . . :?

    =R=
    By protecting others, you save yourself. If you only think of yourself, you'll only destroy yourself. --Kambei Shimada

    Every human interaction is an opportunity for disappointment --RS

    There's a horse loose in a hospital --JM

    That don't impress me much --Shania Twain
  • Post #13 - July 16th, 2020, 11:38 am
    Post #13 - July 16th, 2020, 11:38 am Post #13 - July 16th, 2020, 11:38 am
    Ronnie-

    What recipe did you use? I most recently made regular refrigerator pickles which were good, but ready to graduate to fermenting. Sounds like Nichols is sending us all the fixin's this week.

    Thanks, Will
  • Post #14 - July 16th, 2020, 12:02 pm
    Post #14 - July 16th, 2020, 12:02 pm Post #14 - July 16th, 2020, 12:02 pm
    WillG wrote:Ronnie-

    What recipe did you use? I most recently made regular refrigerator pickles which were good, but ready to graduate to fermenting. Sounds like Nichols is sending us all the fixin's this week.

    Thanks, Will

    I just winged it, using a brine that contained 5% of the weight of the water in pickling salt. This is on the high end of the generally suggested range but being my first time, I wanted to error on the side of actually ending up with pickles. To that I added some fresh dill, some smashed whole garlic cloves, some whole black peppercorns and 1 horseradish leaf but a grape leaf is fine, too. These types of leaves have a chemical effect and are supposed to result in a crispier end product.

    A little dill goes a long way. I used a few fronds. A good friend who's done quite a bit of pickling instructed me to use flowering dill if I got some. I did, so that's what I used. It's extremely aromatic.

    I let the batch ferment for about 9-10 days but these were pretty small cucumbers. For larger ones, you'll probably want to let them go longer. I just checked the pickling vessel every day and skimmed any film/gunk off the top with a small ladle. As far as when they're done, a taste test after the first week is probably a good way to go. Again, I waited until Day 10 and they were just about perfect.

    Here's a tip that wasn't initially obvious to me. Put the cucumbers in the vessel first and weigh them down securely before you add the brine. Otherwise, they're just float up to the top, go where they want to go and become very hard to pin down under the weights. LOL @ myself for being such a damned rookie! :lol:

    =R=
    By protecting others, you save yourself. If you only think of yourself, you'll only destroy yourself. --Kambei Shimada

    Every human interaction is an opportunity for disappointment --RS

    There's a horse loose in a hospital --JM

    That don't impress me much --Shania Twain
  • Post #15 - July 16th, 2020, 3:18 pm
    Post #15 - July 16th, 2020, 3:18 pm Post #15 - July 16th, 2020, 3:18 pm
    Darren72 wrote:Cloudy is normal.

    I really only boil when there is mold/scum. I make a lot of small batches of fermented stuff that don’t have any scum and I don’t boil. But, in my experience, pickles that have been sitting for a month tend to have it.

    Cloudy normal, agreed.

    The yeasts and molds is something you have to actively remove. When I started using a clear ziploc bag with a saline solution matching the brine inside in case it leaked. This provided a barrier good enough to keep yeasts and molds at bay.

    Ron, if you have stuff like yeast and mold, strain it out. If it makes you feel better to heat, cool and return to your pickle jar, go for it. One pound of pickles can go fast.

    I have thought about brining a five-gallon bucket worth of pickles. Each day, pull out a pickle to sample, photograph its progress and eat. After 30 days or so of this, I might still have enough pickles to store.

    Unless I change my mind, I plan to make bread and butter pickles after not doing it for some years. My usual pattern is to make enough that I don't have to for two years or so.

    Since I am not going anywhere this summer, I have time to make pickles.

    Regards,
    Cathy2
    Cathy2

    "You'll be remembered long after you're dead if you make good gravy, mashed potatoes and biscuits." -- Nathalie Dupree
    Facebook, Twitter, Greater Midwest Foodways, Road Food 2012: Podcast
  • Post #16 - July 16th, 2020, 3:44 pm
    Post #16 - July 16th, 2020, 3:44 pm Post #16 - July 16th, 2020, 3:44 pm
    ronnie_suburban wrote:I think they are canned but your bread and butters are some of the best pickles I've ever had.

    Cathy2 wrote:...Unless I change my mind, I plan to make bread and butter pickles after not doing it for some years. My usual pattern is to make enough that I don't have to for two years or so.

    Since I am not going anywhere this summer, I have time to make pickles.

    Regards,
    Cathy2

    Better get your order in Ronnie!
    The thing about quotes on the internet is you can not confirm their validity. -- Abraham Lincoln
  • Post #17 - July 16th, 2020, 3:47 pm
    Post #17 - July 16th, 2020, 3:47 pm Post #17 - July 16th, 2020, 3:47 pm
    Cathy2 wrote:The yeasts and molds is something you have to actively remove. When I started using a clear ziploc bag with a saline solution matching the brine inside in case it leaked. This provided a barrier good enough to keep yeasts and molds at bay.

    I had mechanical trouble when I tried this. I don't think I did it right. The bag didn't cover the entire surface of the pickling vessel and cucumbers kept bobbing to the surface. Should I have put the bag on top of the cukes before I added the brine (just like with plates)?

    Cathy2 wrote:Ron, if you have stuff like yeast and mold, strain it out. If it makes you feel better to heat, cool and return to your pickle jar, go for it. One pound of pickles can go fast.

    As long as straining is a viable option, I'm confident the job I did with it was adequate.

    Cathy2 wrote:I have thought about brining a five-gallon bucket worth of pickles. Each day, pull out a pickle to sample, photograph its progress and eat. After 30 days or so of this, I might still have enough pickles to store.

    This would be awesome.

    Cathy2 wrote:Unless I change my mind, I plan to make bread and butter pickles after not doing it for some years. My usual pattern is to make enough that I don't have to for two years or so.

    This would be even more awesomer! (yes, I meant to do that)

    Cathy2 wrote:Since I am not going anywhere this summer, I have time to make pickles.

    A small silver lining.

    Xexo wrote:Better get your order in Ronnie!

    You read my mind! I have a pate I like to make from Penelope Casas' Tapas cookbook. C2's B&B's are the best accompaniment for it that I've ever had.

    =R=
    By protecting others, you save yourself. If you only think of yourself, you'll only destroy yourself. --Kambei Shimada

    Every human interaction is an opportunity for disappointment --RS

    There's a horse loose in a hospital --JM

    That don't impress me much --Shania Twain
  • Post #18 - July 16th, 2020, 11:21 pm
    Post #18 - July 16th, 2020, 11:21 pm Post #18 - July 16th, 2020, 11:21 pm
    ronnie_suburban wrote:
    Gypsy Boy wrote:
    pairs4life wrote:I leave them in the liquid. They will go squishy. But you only made a pound you will be done with them before they do.


    Same here. No boiling, no fussin', no nothin'. Stick 'em in the fridge and eat 'em. That pound will be gone even faster than you'd think.

    My liquid is very cloudy. How about yours? Is that an indication of anything meaningful?

    Thanks,

    =R=



    It goes cloudy. It is normal as is the garlic going bright blue to green.
    Ava-"If you get down and out, just get in the kitchen and bake a cake."- Jean Strickland

    Horto In Urbs- Falling in love with Urban Vegetable Gardening
  • Post #19 - July 16th, 2020, 11:41 pm
    Post #19 - July 16th, 2020, 11:41 pm Post #19 - July 16th, 2020, 11:41 pm
    pairs4life wrote:It goes cloudy. It is normal as is the garlic going bright blue to green.

    Ok, cool. Gearing up to make a much bigger batch this weekend. I have no idea what I'll do with most of them after they're done. I'd better start making a list of people to give them to. :lol:

    =R=
    By protecting others, you save yourself. If you only think of yourself, you'll only destroy yourself. --Kambei Shimada

    Every human interaction is an opportunity for disappointment --RS

    There's a horse loose in a hospital --JM

    That don't impress me much --Shania Twain
  • Post #20 - July 16th, 2020, 11:53 pm
    Post #20 - July 16th, 2020, 11:53 pm Post #20 - July 16th, 2020, 11:53 pm
    ronnie_suburban wrote:I'd better start making a list of people to give them to. :lol:

    Oh hi Ronnie, you are looking especially good today, taut thighs and all. :lol: :shock: :lol:
    Hold my beer . . .

    Low & Slow
  • Post #21 - July 17th, 2020, 12:16 pm
    Post #21 - July 17th, 2020, 12:16 pm Post #21 - July 17th, 2020, 12:16 pm
    A fermentation crock is different than what you and most people here in the US use.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermentation_crock
    The crock has a water annulus at the top into which the lid fits. You fill the annulus with water, fit the lid into it and you have a water seal threw which the CO2 from fermentation can bubble and no oxygen gets in.
    I don’’t have a hosting service so I can’t Post a cross section but it’s very simple.
    These crocks are expensive, last a lifetime and eliminate any and all mung on the top of a ‘crock’ that uses a plate. The fermentation crocks also come with two hemis spherical shaped weights that submerge the pickle or whatever in the brine.
    -Richard
  • Post #22 - July 17th, 2020, 12:52 pm
    Post #22 - July 17th, 2020, 12:52 pm Post #22 - July 17th, 2020, 12:52 pm
    BTW found this.
    http://humblehouse.co/water-seal-fermen ... mason-jar/
    We also were given these by my brother-in-law.

    https://www.farmcurious.com/products/fa ... cap-2-pack

    He does a lot of small batch with them.
    I use it primarily to ferment mustard greens for Vietnamese recipes.
    It’s expensive.
    As to soft pickles.
    I have been pickling for 30+ years and have tried just about everything.
    We have well water with iron, we do not soften that water.
    I actually tried distilled eater once, expensive and no notable difference.
    Last year I made water bath canned about 30 quarts of the best pickles ever.
    Difference was that the pickles, garlic, dill and jalapeños came from a friend's garden and were canned on the same day everything was picked.
    One year I actually purchased a crate of Kirby’s from a wholesale guy to try and fill my Harsch crocks. Turns out the pickles were from Mexico, made nice pickles but not up to what I just made.
    I use apple cider vinegar and Cary’s pickling and canning salt.
    Kosher salt has anti cake ingredients.
    -Richard
  • Post #23 - July 17th, 2020, 1:24 pm
    Post #23 - July 17th, 2020, 1:24 pm Post #23 - July 17th, 2020, 1:24 pm
    I have seen a couple of recipes for fermenting pickles that use regular sea salt. how important is it to use pickling salt, and what will it do differently?

    Thanks, Will
  • Post #24 - July 17th, 2020, 1:41 pm
    Post #24 - July 17th, 2020, 1:41 pm Post #24 - July 17th, 2020, 1:41 pm
    budrichard wrote:BTW found this.
    http://humblehouse.co/water-seal-fermen ... mason-jar/
    ...
    -Richard

    My neighbor has one of these and she doesn't like it much. Unlike the one pictured on Wikipedia, the water seal part, cuts off a couple of inches across the top of the crock, so she can't put larger things in it. Like whole cabbage. Yes, she likes to do whole head cabbage pickling.

    The one pictured on Wikipedia has the water seal part of the crock flare out from the crock body, so it would appear that larger things could go into the crock.

    Me, well I'm not fond of pickled things, so it doesn't much matter to me. So Cathy is safe from me trying to talk her out of her b&b pickles. :wink:
    Last edited by Xexo on July 17th, 2020, 3:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
    The thing about quotes on the internet is you can not confirm their validity. -- Abraham Lincoln
  • Post #25 - July 17th, 2020, 2:43 pm
    Post #25 - July 17th, 2020, 2:43 pm Post #25 - July 17th, 2020, 2:43 pm
    WillG wrote:I have seen a couple of recipes for fermenting pickles that use regular sea salt. how important is it to use pickling salt, and what will it do differently?

    Thanks, Will

    Obviously, there will be flavor differences between salts but the main critical thing is that it have no additives. This includes iodine, anti-caking agents, etc. Proper pickling salt has nothing added to it and is also ground very fine for quick dilution. But fine sea salt (with no additives) and Diamond Crystal Kosher Salt would also be suitable for pickling. However, with its larger grain size, the DC will require more time for dilution. Morton Kosher Salt has additives, so you'll want to avoid that.

    =R=
    By protecting others, you save yourself. If you only think of yourself, you'll only destroy yourself. --Kambei Shimada

    Every human interaction is an opportunity for disappointment --RS

    There's a horse loose in a hospital --JM

    That don't impress me much --Shania Twain
  • Post #26 - July 17th, 2020, 3:28 pm
    Post #26 - July 17th, 2020, 3:28 pm Post #26 - July 17th, 2020, 3:28 pm
    What about water? I've been reading some suggestions that using chlorinated water is not advisable. Do most of you use tap water or do you use something else? Thanks.

    =R=
    By protecting others, you save yourself. If you only think of yourself, you'll only destroy yourself. --Kambei Shimada

    Every human interaction is an opportunity for disappointment --RS

    There's a horse loose in a hospital --JM

    That don't impress me much --Shania Twain
  • Post #27 - July 17th, 2020, 6:11 pm
    Post #27 - July 17th, 2020, 6:11 pm Post #27 - July 17th, 2020, 6:11 pm
    I use filtered tap water.

    I also use Diamond Kosher Salt. I used to make a special trip to find pickling salt, but find that Diamond does the job just fine. Like Ronnie said, my understanding is that pickling salt is mainly ground more finely for quick dilution. But Diamond dilutes pretty quick too.
  • Post #28 - July 17th, 2020, 7:11 pm
    Post #28 - July 17th, 2020, 7:11 pm Post #28 - July 17th, 2020, 7:11 pm
    Darren72 wrote:I use filtered tap water.

    I also use Diamond Kosher Salt. I used to make a special trip to find pickling salt, but find that Diamond does the job just fine. Like Ronnie said, my understanding is that pickling salt is mainly ground more finely for quick dilution. But Diamond dilutes pretty quick too.
    Pickling salt is like table salt, but minus iodine and anti-caking products. I think Morton's Kosher Salt has an anti-caking agent in it as well; Diamond's doesn't.
    The thing about quotes on the internet is you can not confirm their validity. -- Abraham Lincoln
  • Post #29 - July 17th, 2020, 8:31 pm
    Post #29 - July 17th, 2020, 8:31 pm Post #29 - July 17th, 2020, 8:31 pm
    budrichard wrote:He does a lot of small batch with them.
    I use it primarily to ferment mustard greens for Vietnamese recipes.

    Tell me more about Vietnamese pickled mustard greens, I've got a bumper crop right now that if I don't find something else, will be blanched and frozen this weekend.
    What is patriotism, but the love of good things we ate in our childhood?
    -- Lin Yutang
  • Post #30 - July 17th, 2020, 8:59 pm
    Post #30 - July 17th, 2020, 8:59 pm Post #30 - July 17th, 2020, 8:59 pm
    Don't know if this has been posted somewhere else, but my quick search didn't find it. India’s ‘Pickle Queen’ Preserves Everything, Including the Past in case anyone is interested. Her book is on Amazon, although I understand the print quality isn't great.
    The thing about quotes on the internet is you can not confirm their validity. -- Abraham Lincoln

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