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Coq au Vin with Actual Coq

Coq au Vin with Actual Coq
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  • Post #31 - February 6th, 2022, 10:29 am
    Post #31 - February 6th, 2022, 10:29 am Post #31 - February 6th, 2022, 10:29 am
    budrichard wrote:I had not experienced Chicago Street after a snow in many years.
    Radar enforced Speed Limits? Are they actual?

    Huge money maker for the city.

    There was a stretch on Foster Avenue east of the expressway along a park that once was a high speed zone. Nobody was going the posted 30 MPH and often it was quite a bit more. It is a quite ride now. If you go over the speed limit by six miles, you will receive a ticket in the mail.

    Apparently they lowered the violation speed, which I always thought was six miles over, and the money just came pouring in to the city.

    Regards,
    CAthy2
    Cathy2

    "You'll be remembered long after you're dead if you make good gravy, mashed potatoes and biscuits." -- Nathalie Dupree
    Facebook, Twitter, Greater Midwest Foodways, Road Food 2012: Podcast
  • Post #32 - February 6th, 2022, 12:19 pm
    Post #32 - February 6th, 2022, 12:19 pm Post #32 - February 6th, 2022, 12:19 pm
    Radar enforced signs are mostly a joke. Photo enforced is real. The stretch of Foster that Cathy refers to had radar enforced signs for as long as I can remember, which goes back over 40 years. Once they installed photo enforcement, traffic really slowed down.
  • Post #33 - February 6th, 2022, 2:24 pm
    Post #33 - February 6th, 2022, 2:24 pm Post #33 - February 6th, 2022, 2:24 pm
    Richard:
    My only plea is that you make stock from the bunny carcasses. I did that years ago and my mouth waters still. It went into the best avgolemono soup I'd ever had.
    What is patriotism, but the love of good things we ate in our childhood?
    -- Lin Yutang
  • Post #34 - February 6th, 2022, 5:47 pm
    Post #34 - February 6th, 2022, 5:47 pm Post #34 - February 6th, 2022, 5:47 pm
    Here’s a rundown of our *first* effort with using actual coq in coq au vin.

    I picked up the Slagel coq at our local Carnival grocery store on Tuesday (they delivered early to avoid the predicted snowstorm).

    Starting Wednesday, we cut the coq into pieces, marinated legs, wings, etc., in mirepoix (carrot, onion, celery) and a bottle of Cote du Rhone. The meat was extraordinarily red, like beef (I wanted to include photos in this post, but I can’t seem to get Flickr or imgur to size photos correctly).

    On Saturday morning, I removed the chicken from the marinade and let it air dry on a rack in the refrigerator until Saturday afternoon; marinade/mirepoix were reserved and the marinade reduced.

    Saturday late afternoon, Carolyn quickly browned the bird; we supplemented the marinade with another cup or two of wine and let it cook for about two hours and fifteen minutes, adding onions, mushrooms and lardons near the end of the cook.

    We boiled little potatoes to have on the side and served everything with French green beans.

    When dinner was on the table, my friend Alec and I grabbed the two legs, and Carolyn took a thigh…after one bite, we all looked at each other; I mumbled “Inedible” and Carolyn, always one to put a positive spin on a bad situation, brightly observed, “It’s toothsome.”

    It was, in fact, so damn toothsome that you really couldn’t bite through the meat without tremendous stretches of concentrated mastication…and even when one did that, the meat itself was insipid. The sauce was delicious, which helped a little, but the rubbery meat on thighs and legs did not encourage consumption.

    Fortunately, we’d thrown in four chicken thighs, and those were exceptionally good, having sat/cooked in the sauce for hours.

    Cutting up the breast and mincing the meat made it edible: tender, if not truly tasty.

    However, all was not lost. This morning, we used the remaining coq meat, sauce, and potatoes for stovies. Or do you call it rumbledethumps? Scouse? Whatever you call this classic morning-after meal, it was a good breakfast which I may be inspired to post about, and if I ever again cook coq au vin with rooster meat, I will use a castrated rooster, a capon, which I’m guessing is what they sell at John’s.

    Overall, then, this first effort at preparing coq au vin with actual coq cannot be called anything more than a "learning experience" (<-- euphemism).

    Tomorrow, I plan to call Slagel, sincerely thank them for the special order, and casually ask how old that rooster was. I suspect it had been up and crowing at many, many rising suns before it met the axe.
    "Don't you ever underestimate the power of a female." Bootsy Collins
  • Post #35 - February 6th, 2022, 7:11 pm
    Post #35 - February 6th, 2022, 7:11 pm Post #35 - February 6th, 2022, 7:11 pm
    Thank you for starting this conversation and sharing your travails.

    David Hammond wrote:(I wanted to include photos in this post, but I can’t seem to get Flickr or imgur to size photos correctly).


    When you are in Imgur, Click on your user name and then click on 'images'. Click on the image you want to present here. In the lower right where it says 'sizes' click on 'large thumbnail'. Then above that where it says 'direct link' click on 'copy'. Come back here and click on the 'IMG' code in black at the top. Put your cursor between the IMG labels and tap 'Ctrl V' . Your image will now show in your post.
  • Post #36 - February 6th, 2022, 8:00 pm
    Post #36 - February 6th, 2022, 8:00 pm Post #36 - February 6th, 2022, 8:00 pm
    lougord99 wrote:Thank you for starting this conversation and sharing your travails.

    David Hammond wrote:(I wanted to include photos in this post, but I can’t seem to get Flickr or imgur to size photos correctly).


    When you are in Imgur, Click on your user name and then click on 'images'. Click on the image you want to present here. In the lower right where it says 'sizes' click on 'large thumbnail'. Then above that where it says 'direct link' click on 'copy'. Come back here and click on the 'IMG' code in black at the top. Put your cursor between the IMG labels and tap 'Ctrl V' . Your image will now show in your post.


    And thank you for the guidance.
    "Don't you ever underestimate the power of a female." Bootsy Collins
  • Post #37 - February 6th, 2022, 8:13 pm
    Post #37 - February 6th, 2022, 8:13 pm Post #37 - February 6th, 2022, 8:13 pm
    Dinner last night was considerably more delicious looking than delicious...and it's not that delicious looking.

    Image
    "Don't you ever underestimate the power of a female." Bootsy Collins
  • Post #38 - February 6th, 2022, 8:45 pm
    Post #38 - February 6th, 2022, 8:45 pm Post #38 - February 6th, 2022, 8:45 pm
    What an adventure. And hard to imagine how awful it would have been if it had not been treated to such remarkable care and attention beforehand.
    "All great change in America begins at the dinner table." Ronald Reagan

    http://midwestmaize.wordpress.com
  • Post #39 - February 7th, 2022, 3:32 am
    Post #39 - February 7th, 2022, 3:32 am Post #39 - February 7th, 2022, 3:32 am
    JoelF wrote:Richard:
    My only plea is that you make stock from the bunny carcasses. I did that years ago and my mouth waters still. It went into the best avgolemono soup I'd ever had.


    Of course!!!
    'Medium' rabbit was large enough for boneless saddle.
    One rabbit boned out yesterday for boneless saddle today.
    Bones saved for stock which will be reduced for a sauce.
    Other rabbit in the freezer.
    My wife says I can't term them 'bunnies'!
    As to Rooster and cooking, I plan to cook the Rooster today for at least 6 hours.
    -Richard
  • Post #40 - February 7th, 2022, 8:06 am
    Post #40 - February 7th, 2022, 8:06 am Post #40 - February 7th, 2022, 8:06 am
    This probably belongs in the "what's with the price of" thread, but with several mentions of game I thought I'd pass this along: With the rising prices of beef and chicken (maybe pork less so), the prices of duck and rabbit are looking comparatively cheaper (at least it was the case my last visit to Fresh Farms Golf). A whole duck or rabbit is still much more expensive than a whole chicken, but the gap has closed significantly -- if you're looking for a special occasion meal, those may be better choices than a steak.
    What is patriotism, but the love of good things we ate in our childhood?
    -- Lin Yutang
  • Post #41 - February 7th, 2022, 8:51 am
    Post #41 - February 7th, 2022, 8:51 am Post #41 - February 7th, 2022, 8:51 am
    budrichard wrote:As to Rooster and cooking, I plan to cook the Rooster today for at least 6 hours. -Richard


    Just to clarify, the birds you purchased at John's are capons, right? (Still roosters, of course, though "modified.")
    "Don't you ever underestimate the power of a female." Bootsy Collins
  • Post #42 - February 8th, 2022, 9:16 am
    Post #42 - February 8th, 2022, 9:16 am Post #42 - February 8th, 2022, 9:16 am
    David Hammond wrote:
    budrichard wrote:As to Rooster and cooking, I plan to cook the Rooster today for at least 6 hours. -Richard


    Just to clarify, the birds you purchased at John's are capons, right? (Still roosters, of course, though "modified.")

    I did not personally sex them but upon questioning if they had testicles and were in fact 'Roosters' I was told 'Yes'.
    They come with the feet attached.
    Just got off the phone with John's and confirmed they were in fact 'real' Roosters!!!
    -Richard
  • Post #43 - February 8th, 2022, 12:06 pm
    Post #43 - February 8th, 2022, 12:06 pm Post #43 - February 8th, 2022, 12:06 pm
    We had a large quantity of leftover sauce (excellent: mirepoix, rooster juice, bottle of Rhone, cognac) and potatoes, so I made stovies (rumbledethumps, scouse, call it what you will), just the minced meat, veg, sauce and the prerequisite potatoes. This was breakfast. A fine way to face a chilly morning, and the only way I could think of to use the remainder of Saturday night's meal.

    Image
    "Don't you ever underestimate the power of a female." Bootsy Collins
  • Post #44 - February 10th, 2022, 3:07 am
    Post #44 - February 10th, 2022, 3:07 am Post #44 - February 10th, 2022, 3:07 am
    Upon prep for Coq au Vin, found the required evidence for a Rooster in the body cavity still attached.
    Heavily boned 8# bird with wattle and comb.
    Followed Bocuse prep and recipe and cooking time of 2hrs 15 min.
    Tender, very delicious outcome.
    I came away thinking that they old laying hens I get would be an even better match for Coq au Vin. There is something about the stronger taste when my wife makes Chicken & Dumplings with these hens?
    BTW, boneless saddle of rabbit was also excellent, rabbit was big enough to allow stuffing with a rabbit mousse and bones were used to make sauce.
    There is something very elegant about a stuffed boneless saddle.
    Can't say enough about the care with which John's offers on its cleaning of live animals.
    Just immaculate with only one or two pin feathers left on the Roosters/pigeons.
    I always leave a few days after dispatch for rigor to pass, in this case. 4 days for the Rooster.
    What I have noticed at a Vietnam restaurant right next to a Live Poultry store, that the chicken dishes are tough. Maybe rigor and vigorous boiling?
    -Richard
  • Post #45 - February 10th, 2022, 10:45 am
    Post #45 - February 10th, 2022, 10:45 am Post #45 - February 10th, 2022, 10:45 am
    budrichard wrote:What I have noticed at a Vietnam restaurant right next to a Live Poultry store, that the chicken dishes are tough. Maybe rigor and vigorous boiling


    Richard, I believe you are thinking of Aden Live Poultry and New Asia Restaurant. 2731 and 2711 W Lawrence respectively. New Asia is closed but I had more than one disagreement with a friend while eating there about the chew/tensile strength of New Asia's chicken. I was Not a Fan, he thought it was wonderful and evocative of eating in Vietnam.

    I avoided New Asia's chicken dishes, he loved them.

    Different strokes . . .
    Hold my beer . . .

    Low & Slow
  • Post #46 - February 11th, 2022, 8:36 am
    Post #46 - February 11th, 2022, 8:36 am Post #46 - February 11th, 2022, 8:36 am
    budrichard wrote:Upon prep for Coq au Vin, found the required evidence for a Rooster in the body cavity still attached.
    Heavily boned 8# bird with wattle and comb.
    Followed Bocuse prep and recipe and cooking time of 2hrs 15 min.
    Tender, very delicious outcome.


    I find this both encouraging and surprising. You followed the Bocuse recipe, which uses chicken (and I'm guessing you marinated your bird for 24 hours, per Bocuse), and cooked your rooster as you would a chicken (and for what seems a relatively short period of time), and you got a very delicious outcome.
    "Don't you ever underestimate the power of a female." Bootsy Collins
  • Post #47 - February 11th, 2022, 12:23 pm
    Post #47 - February 11th, 2022, 12:23 pm Post #47 - February 11th, 2022, 12:23 pm
    Age makes a big difference in chickens. Ones three to six months old will differ very little in flavor or toughness whether before or after reaching sexual maturity. Two year old birds are a different story.

    Chickens cooked in rigor mortis are tough. Cook very soon after slaughter before rigor sets in or wait it out. I have raised chickens. Dressing them in the afternoon for that day's dinner is fine but for tomorrow's dinner is not.
  • Post #48 - February 11th, 2022, 5:52 pm
    Post #48 - February 11th, 2022, 5:52 pm Post #48 - February 11th, 2022, 5:52 pm
    budrichard wrote:I always leave a few days after dispatch for rigor to pass, in this case. 4 days for the Rooster.

    ekreider wrote:Age makes a big difference in chickens. Ones three to six months old will differ very little in flavor or toughness whether before or after reaching sexual maturity. Two year old birds are a different story.
    Chickens cooked in rigor mortis are tough. Cook very soon after slaughter before rigor sets in or wait it out. I have raised chickens. Dressing them in the afternoon for that day's dinner is fine but for tomorrow's dinner is not.

    Richard, did you just keep the rooster in the refrigerator for four days before you started the marinating? Did you do any other prep? Did you start the marinating sometime before the end of the four-day wait? I would like to try coq au vin with a real rooster too but have no experience with handling freshly slaughtered fowl, so I'd welcome any advice from either of you or anyone else.

    These comments reminded me of something in the Joy of Cooking (my desert island cookbook): "That poultry served immediately after slaughtering is not a delicacy was brought home to me early when my father and I would ... [anecdote] ... The less said about lunch the better. So we learned early that quick cooling and hanging in a cool place from 8 to 24 hours will avoid stringiness and develop flavor."
    "Your swimming suit matches your eyes, you hold your nose before diving, loving you has made me bananas!"
  • Post #49 - February 12th, 2022, 2:05 am
    Post #49 - February 12th, 2022, 2:05 am Post #49 - February 12th, 2022, 2:05 am
    Bocuse in his tome work actually has two Coq au Vin, one uses Flourie wine of which we had none so I used Two Vines Cabernet because actual Burgundy has gone off the charts in price and I don't think we had any.
    When I go to john's. I take two coolers, one with 20# of ice and one empty.
    The carcasses are warm, so they go in the empty cooler and ice added remembering to get ice into the body cavities, a set of spare gloves is nice to have.
    The Rooster was left in the garage in the cooler for 4 days and was icy on cut up.
    The Rooster was marinated for a full 24 hours following 4 days in the cooler.
    Nothing other than following the recipe was done.
    Aden and New Asia were my reference.
    -Richard
  • Post #50 - February 12th, 2022, 8:42 am
    Post #50 - February 12th, 2022, 8:42 am Post #50 - February 12th, 2022, 8:42 am
    HI,

    A friend used to live on an old dairy farm and raised pheasants to eventually shoot and eat.

    She believed in hanging them fully feathered and entrails inside until the pheasant fell to the floor. Once it reached this stage, which I had the impression may take a few weeks, then she was ready to cook and eat.

    Is this something anyone here has done? What did it taste like as opposed?

    Regards,
    Cathy2
    Cathy2

    "You'll be remembered long after you're dead if you make good gravy, mashed potatoes and biscuits." -- Nathalie Dupree
    Facebook, Twitter, Greater Midwest Foodways, Road Food 2012: Podcast
  • Post #51 - February 12th, 2022, 12:48 pm
    Post #51 - February 12th, 2022, 12:48 pm Post #51 - February 12th, 2022, 12:48 pm
    Thanks very much, Richard, for taking the time to provide those detailed instructions.

    It's so cold in my garage that the freezer compartment of the garage fridge/freezer has stopped working. Happens every other winter or so, Polar Vortex Year in particular, but is not enough of a nuisance for me to bother attaching a separate thermostat. Occurs to me just now I could put a rooster on ice in that not-quite-frozen storage locker for a few days.

    I guess I could hang a rooster in the garage at these current temps, but I'd rather not. I have no doubt, though, that in weather like this week's, a cooler full of ice would still be full of ice four days from now. In warmer weather, I guess I'd check and restock the ice as needed or put the bird in ice in the fridge.
    "Your swimming suit matches your eyes, you hold your nose before diving, loving you has made me bananas!"
  • Post #52 - February 12th, 2022, 1:57 pm
    Post #52 - February 12th, 2022, 1:57 pm Post #52 - February 12th, 2022, 1:57 pm
    If you were to hang in your garage, I guarantee the raccoons would find a way to get in.
  • Post #53 - February 12th, 2022, 2:36 pm
    Post #53 - February 12th, 2022, 2:36 pm Post #53 - February 12th, 2022, 2:36 pm
    I've never "hung up" meat, but if it's freezing outside, and you hang the meat in the garage, and it freezes, would that not interfere with the aging process?
    "Don't you ever underestimate the power of a female." Bootsy Collins
  • Post #54 - February 13th, 2022, 3:26 am
    Post #54 - February 13th, 2022, 3:26 am Post #54 - February 13th, 2022, 3:26 am
    Before the age of refridgeration with ice and then electricity, much of the meat consumed was wild game.
    As such, it was hung outside for storage.
    If the temps are below 40F, no problem, higher temps, smoke and/or salt for preservation.
    It turns out that natural bacteria also work on the meat, somewhat tenderizing and changing the flavor.Our garage although not heated, does stay about 5-10 degrees above the outside temperature due to it being attached on one wall and sunlight.
    Even if the temp does fall below the temp where meat freezes (26-28F) there is not measurable loss of quality over the short run.
    So after November, hanging in our garage for a few days never presented a problem.
    Today, the warmer climate has shortened this period in the Mid West.
    As to raccoons, our local Trapper has solved that problem if it arises.
    After a snow fall, a reading of the tracks found will confirm the resident species.
    As to hanging until the entrails fall out, one can purchase steak that has been aged for a month or two, the outside is trimmed and its Fine if the aging is controlled.
    The most I have ever hung bird is 5 days and there is no noticeable change if the temp is in the right band of temperature.
    I consider the hanging of a bird until the entrails fall out a wives tail serviving from the 19th-early 20th century in Great Britain.
    I read about it but never know of anyone actually doing it!!!
    -Richard
  • Post #55 - February 13th, 2022, 9:44 am
    Post #55 - February 13th, 2022, 9:44 am Post #55 - February 13th, 2022, 9:44 am
    Rack of squirrel, anyone? The chefs putting invasive species on the menu
    "Invasivorism" is a growing ethical dining trend but is ‘eat them to beat them’ really the answer? Chefs are including grey squirrel, feral hogs, invasive lionfish, and, of course, other rodents.

    If you only go over the see the picture of the rack of squirrel, it is precious.

    Regards,
    Cathy2
    Cathy2

    "You'll be remembered long after you're dead if you make good gravy, mashed potatoes and biscuits." -- Nathalie Dupree
    Facebook, Twitter, Greater Midwest Foodways, Road Food 2012: Podcast
  • Post #56 - February 13th, 2022, 9:47 am
    Post #56 - February 13th, 2022, 9:47 am Post #56 - February 13th, 2022, 9:47 am
    budrichard wrote:I consider the hanging of a bird until the entrails fall out a wives tail serviving from the 19th-early 20th century in Great Britain.
    I read about it but never know of anyone actually doing it!!!
    -Richard

    My friend hung the birds until the body separated from the neck. She never commented about the entrails falling out. I might ask when, if ever, I meet her again.

    Regards,
    Cathy2
    Cathy2

    "You'll be remembered long after you're dead if you make good gravy, mashed potatoes and biscuits." -- Nathalie Dupree
    Facebook, Twitter, Greater Midwest Foodways, Road Food 2012: Podcast
  • Post #57 - February 13th, 2022, 10:22 am
    Post #57 - February 13th, 2022, 10:22 am Post #57 - February 13th, 2022, 10:22 am
    Whoops!
    I meant until the tail feathers are easily pulled out.
    This is a good treatise in hanging game but of course it's British where the custom has centuries of practice!
    https://www.shootinguk.co.uk/answers/ha ... game-15521
    The article about Rack of Squirrel is British also where the Gray is regarded as a pest.
    Many UTube vids about shooting them with air rifles since the use of firearms is severely restricted in Britain.
    Here in the Midwest the Gray has largely supplanted the much larger Fox squirrel but is not considered a pest yet by regulation unless you are a land owner and they are causing damage, then you can shoot all you want in Wisconsin.
    I would like to see someone do boneless saddle of Gray!!!
    The Gray actually tastes similar to Wild Turkey since they both have a diet of acorns.
    The problem with squirrel is skinning them. The hide is very tough and you need to know the correct technique and even then it is an effort.
    -Richard
  • Post #58 - February 14th, 2022, 12:29 pm
    Post #58 - February 14th, 2022, 12:29 pm Post #58 - February 14th, 2022, 12:29 pm
    I'm pretty sure the chewiness of our rooster was due to the age of the beast. I, of course, don't hold Slagel to blame for this; I didn't specify any age; I just asked for a rooster. Next time I make coq au vin with actual coq, I'm going to try John's which, I'm guessing (based on budrichard's comments above), sells young birds.
    "Don't you ever underestimate the power of a female." Bootsy Collins
  • Post #59 - April 5th, 2022, 10:27 pm
    Post #59 - April 5th, 2022, 10:27 pm Post #59 - April 5th, 2022, 10:27 pm
    FWIW, Sunset Foods' weekly flyer for sales starting tomorrow includes "Capon Style Roasting Chicken" whole for $1.99/lb, cut up for $2.49/lb. What "capon style" means as opposed to capon, I don't know. You don't often see capon mentioned in store ads. Maybe it's big enough and old enough to really be stewing chicken, but that probably wouldn't sell as well.
    "Your swimming suit matches your eyes, you hold your nose before diving, loving you has made me bananas!"
  • Post #60 - April 6th, 2022, 1:30 am
    Post #60 - April 6th, 2022, 1:30 am Post #60 - April 6th, 2022, 1:30 am
    Katie wrote:FWIW, Sunset Foods' weekly flyer for sales starting tomorrow includes "Capon Style Roasting Chicken" whole for $1.99/lb, cut up for $2.49/lb. What "capon style" means as opposed to capon, I don't know. You don't often see capon mentioned in store ads. Maybe it's big enough and old enough to really be stewing chicken, but that probably wouldn't sell as well.


    Reads like 'Creative Marketing 101'!

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