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Brisket Sous Vide?

Brisket Sous Vide?
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  • Post #31 - September 8th, 2005, 4:48 pm
    Post #31 - September 8th, 2005, 4:48 pm Post #31 - September 8th, 2005, 4:48 pm
    stevez wrote:If you can find one locally, why not buy a point for experimentation purposes before committing to a whole brisket.

    I have a freezer full of NR briskets. People who know me will readily understand this. :lol:

    I'm perfectly happy to scarifice one for the cause.

    Bill/SFNM
  • Post #32 - September 8th, 2005, 5:08 pm
    Post #32 - September 8th, 2005, 5:08 pm Post #32 - September 8th, 2005, 5:08 pm
    Bill/SFNM wrote:I have a freezer full of NR briskets. People who know me will readily understand this. :lol:

    I'm perfectly happy to scarifice one for the cause.

    Bill/SFNM


    That makes perfect sense to me. :lol: :wink:
    Steve Z.

    “Only the pure in heart can make a good soup.”
    ― Ludwig van Beethoven
  • Post #33 - September 8th, 2005, 5:39 pm
    Post #33 - September 8th, 2005, 5:39 pm Post #33 - September 8th, 2005, 5:39 pm
    Bill,

    Is there any way you can vacuum seal a polder thermometer probe into the meat by letting sealing over the wire. Maybe use a silicone substance to close any leaks around the wire? Or just poke the probe through the bag and use Belly's old marinade sealing tool - Duct Tape.

    I don't think duct tape or silicone would cause any harm for a one time experiment. Maybe there is some other type of tape that could be used.
    Bruce
    Plenipotentiary
    bruce@bdbbq.com

    Raw meat should NOT have an ingredients list!!
  • Post #34 - September 8th, 2005, 6:26 pm
    Post #34 - September 8th, 2005, 6:26 pm Post #34 - September 8th, 2005, 6:26 pm
    Actually, I have been talking about brisket. One thing about sous vide is that there will be no meteorite bark like you get in a smoker. But the flavor, whatever will be more concentrated. Whether the final result is better is something I'm anxious to see.


    This sounds like the technique Wiviott needs for his pastrami. :wink: You had to be there.

    Kit
    duck fat rules
  • Post #35 - September 8th, 2005, 10:22 pm
    Post #35 - September 8th, 2005, 10:22 pm Post #35 - September 8th, 2005, 10:22 pm
    Bruce wrote:Bill,

    Is there any way you can vacuum seal a polder thermometer probe into the meat by letting sealing over the wire. Maybe use a silicone substance to close any leaks around the wire? Or just poke the probe through the bag and use Belly's old marinade sealing tool - Duct Tape.

    I don't think duct tape or silicone would cause any harm for a one time experiment. Maybe there is some other type of tape that could be used.


    Bruce,

    I've got some very thin thermocouple probes that would work better than a Polder, but I don't see an easy way to seal with no loss of vacuum where the probe exits. Vacuum is supposed to be a very important part of the sous vide effect so it is more than just making the pouch airtight . Maybe I could seal in one of those probes with a wireless transmitter
    :)

    Bill/SFNM
  • Post #36 - September 9th, 2005, 12:24 am
    Post #36 - September 9th, 2005, 12:24 am Post #36 - September 9th, 2005, 12:24 am
    I was thinking you could try a disposable pop-up thermometer. I'm not sure how the vacuum would affect it, though; if the bag is sealed with no air space, the thermometer may not pop up.

    I wonder what would happen if you just stuck an old-fashioned meat thermometer in the brisket and sealed the whole thing in the bag.
  • Post #37 - September 9th, 2005, 2:35 am
    Post #37 - September 9th, 2005, 2:35 am Post #37 - September 9th, 2005, 2:35 am
    LAZ wrote: would happen if you just stuck an old-fashioned meat thermometer in the brisket and sealed the whole thing in the bag.


    LAZ,

    That would be too easy!! :lol: :oops:

    Your solution is probably the only way. Thanks!

    Bill/SFNM
  • Post #38 - December 13th, 2006, 7:48 am
    Post #38 - December 13th, 2006, 7:48 am Post #38 - December 13th, 2006, 7:48 am
    Been playing around short ribs slow-cooked in a Foodsaver pouch in water and finally got results that made it all worth while.


    First, I used high-quality meat; these are from Niman Ranch:

    Image

    Using a recipe for Daube in the Style of Gascony from Wolford as a rough guide, I marinated the meat for several days, browned the meat in duck fat, browned some vegetables, made a reduction sauce with the marinade and Armagnac. Sealed in pouches with some cured pork belly, etc., and placed in water bath @ 165F-170F for 20 hours.

    Image

    Image

    Some observations:

    1. Texture: the meat remained intact. It was velvety soft and gelatinous, easily cut with a fork, melted in the mouth. The inside was pink, although this may have something to do with the wine marinade.

    2. Browning before putting in the pouch is essential. Batches that weren't browned didn't hold together as well and didn't have as deep a flavor.

    3. Pressure: The Foodsaver was unable to remove all of the air - sauce began to be sucked into the pump before all of the air could be drawn out. Remaining air within the pouch expands with the heat. To get the real benefit of cooking at reduced pressure I would need a food service-quality vacuum sealer. Santa, are you listening?

    4. Before serving, it was easy to put a slit in the bag and remove much of the fat. At this point, the rest of the sauce could be removed for further reduction and seasoning while the meat remained warm in the water bath.

    5. This is extremely rich food - small portions are absolutely called for. Pig out and pay the price.

    6. The meal above was served with a "YES!-Knead" boule made from my Austrian starter.

    Bill/SFNM
  • Post #39 - December 13th, 2006, 10:28 am
    Post #39 - December 13th, 2006, 10:28 am Post #39 - December 13th, 2006, 10:28 am
    Bill, that looks so irresistably succulent!

    Can you freeze your sauce? The home sous-vide tricks is to freeze your marinade/sauce in an ice tray and then add the cubes to the sous-vide/FoodSaver bag so it doesn't get sucked up. My added advice is to use a silicone tray - makes popping them out much easier - and then sous-vide the entire tray to store in the freezer. And the way to measure the internal temp of sealed food is to stick some weather stripping on the bag and then use the thin probe thermometer.

    The eGullet thread really is currently the best widely accessible source for home sous-vide information.

    Happy sous-vide-ing!
  • Post #40 - December 13th, 2006, 10:51 am
    Post #40 - December 13th, 2006, 10:51 am Post #40 - December 13th, 2006, 10:51 am
    Thank you, Louisa, especially for the great idea about freezing the sauce. I'll have to check out the eGullet thread.

    Quick question. Is the Foodsaver actually able to draw enough of a vacuum, even with the frozen sauce trick?

    Thanks, again.

    Bill/SFNM
  • Post #41 - December 29th, 2006, 3:35 pm
    Post #41 - December 29th, 2006, 3:35 pm Post #41 - December 29th, 2006, 3:35 pm
    Bill - it should be - mine works fine. Then again there's always the Ultravac http://www.kochequipment.com/site/equip ... tegory=154
  • Post #42 - March 15th, 2021, 11:19 am
    Post #42 - March 15th, 2021, 11:19 am Post #42 - March 15th, 2021, 11:19 am
    Would love to get some input from those who are experienced in sous vide. We had a 72 hour sous vide short rib the other night. What I noticed though was that there was still a lot of fat in the pieces I had. My theory was that the sous vide process didn't allow that fat to be rendered off, but I really don't know. I read through this thread and it seems my theory is wrong. Your thoughts are welcome.
    -Mary
  • Post #43 - March 15th, 2021, 11:47 am
    Post #43 - March 15th, 2021, 11:47 am Post #43 - March 15th, 2021, 11:47 am
    The GP wrote:Would love to get some input from those who are experienced in sous vide. We had a 72 hour sous vide short rib the other night. What I noticed though was that there was still a lot of fat in the pieces I had. My theory was that the sous vide process didn't allow that fat to be rendered off, but I really don't know. I read through this thread and it seems my theory is wrong. Your thoughts are welcome.

    This is possible, though my experience is that a lot of the fat renders out. What temperature did you cook it at?

    =R=
    By protecting others, you save yourself. If you only think of yourself, you'll only destroy yourself. --Kambei Shimada

    Every human interaction is an opportunity for disappointment --RS

    That don't impress me much --Shania Twain
  • Post #44 - March 15th, 2021, 12:27 pm
    Post #44 - March 15th, 2021, 12:27 pm Post #44 - March 15th, 2021, 12:27 pm
    ronnie_suburban wrote:What temperature did you cook it at?
    I know absolute dick about sous v. But, it seems to me this the key question. Too low and the fat will not render well.

    While there seems to be disagreement as to temp (cold vs hot, part of animal, age of animal etc) where beef fat starts to render, the stall point or plateau, when cooking brisket on a smoker is 140-160. This is where the fat renders out and connective tissue breaks down.
    Hold my beer . . .

    Low & Slow
  • Post #45 - March 15th, 2021, 12:38 pm
    Post #45 - March 15th, 2021, 12:38 pm Post #45 - March 15th, 2021, 12:38 pm
    We did not prepare these short ribs so I don't know what temp was used.
    -Mary
  • Post #46 - March 15th, 2021, 1:21 pm
    Post #46 - March 15th, 2021, 1:21 pm Post #46 - March 15th, 2021, 1:21 pm
    If they were cooked for 72hrs, may well have been at a temperature of 132-145F where the fat would stay intact and kinda gelatinous. Supposedly it's possible to sous vide at 170F-ish for that long without overcooking, never tried it myself. At that heat, I would think the fat would be squeezed out.
  • Post #47 - March 16th, 2021, 5:49 pm
    Post #47 - March 16th, 2021, 5:49 pm Post #47 - March 16th, 2021, 5:49 pm
    I've done a plate rib cook at 160 for 24 hours and it was one of the finest things I've ever cooked. I'm pretty sure it was this recipe:
    https://jbsousvide.com/2018/11/25/brais ... hort-ribs/

    It was a group effort by multiple households and the host made suet birdfeeders from the rendered & separated fat. This was also the time I found out expanded polystyrene foam (aka syrofoam cooler material) leaks like crazy over time and, especially, when heated.
  • Post #48 - March 17th, 2021, 10:31 am
    Post #48 - March 17th, 2021, 10:31 am Post #48 - March 17th, 2021, 10:31 am
    tjr wrote:Supposedly it's possible to sous vide at 170F-ish for that long without overcooking, never tried it myself. At that heat, I would think the fat would be squeezed out.

    Most short rib sous vide recipes (and other meats, for that matter) shorten the cook time as the temp increases. 72 hours at 135 * is commonplace but I've not seen anyone recommend it at 170*

    The attraction of the 72 hr/~135* cook is, to my understanding, the ability to get steak-like texture but with slow-cooked tenderness that's difficult to get through traditional hot air cooking methods. The large globs of fat will remain and not begin to dry/dehydrate like in traditional cooking methods.

    FWIW,
    Dave

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