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Jamon Iberico...coming to a website near you

Jamon Iberico...coming to a website near you
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  • Jamon Iberico...coming to a website near you

    Post #1 - September 21st, 2005, 12:07 pm
    Post #1 - September 21st, 2005, 12:07 pm Post #1 - September 21st, 2005, 12:07 pm
    Ok, admittedly this is from PR newswire, but it is good news nonetheless:

    Lomo and Iberico sausages have been approved for export by the USDA and the Spanish Government and will be available for purchase by Christmas. Full Jamon will take a bit longer - Jamon will ship in Fall '07. In the meantime, if you want to reserve your entirely legal Jamon, you can secure it with a $199 deposit. The hams are expected to sell for around $1000 for the best ones.

    For more information check this out.
    CONNOISSEUR, n. A specialist who knows everything about something and nothing about anything else.
    -Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary

    www.cakeandcommerce.com
  • Post #2 - September 21st, 2005, 1:10 pm
    Post #2 - September 21st, 2005, 1:10 pm Post #2 - September 21st, 2005, 1:10 pm
    I've had a deposit down on a Pata Negra jamon with Tienda for nearly three years. At that time they estimated shipping for Xmas 2004. Still waiting. I'll believe it when I taste it. Can't wait, though.

    Bill/SFNM
  • Post #3 - September 21st, 2005, 6:09 pm
    Post #3 - September 21st, 2005, 6:09 pm Post #3 - September 21st, 2005, 6:09 pm
    You have read 'Pig Perfect', I assume?

    Kit
    duck fat rules
  • Post #4 - September 21st, 2005, 6:12 pm
    Post #4 - September 21st, 2005, 6:12 pm Post #4 - September 21st, 2005, 6:12 pm
    kit wrote:You have read 'Pig Perfect', I assume?

    Not yet. I made a promise that I wouldn't buy another food book this year. My shelves runneth over. What does he say about about jamon iberica?

    Bill/SFNM
  • Post #5 - September 21st, 2005, 6:18 pm
    Post #5 - September 21st, 2005, 6:18 pm Post #5 - September 21st, 2005, 6:18 pm
    kit wrote:What does he say about about jamon iberica?

    Bill,

    Kaminsky, the author of Pig Perfect, says the same thing as Kit and me, buy the book. :)

    Enjoy,
    Gary
    Last edited by G Wiv on September 21st, 2005, 6:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
    Hold my beer . . .

    Low & Slow
  • Post #6 - September 21st, 2005, 6:39 pm
    Post #6 - September 21st, 2005, 6:39 pm Post #6 - September 21st, 2005, 6:39 pm
    The book is an homage to the pata negra. In fact, he drools so much, the pages are sticky. After having tasted it in Spain, he finds that ibericos run wild on an island off of Georgia when the Spanish would drop off pigs during their explorations so that they would have a meat supply.

    His grand experiment was to raise the bloodline as close to the environs (the 'dehessa') of Andalucia. If you want to read it, I won't give away the ending.

    Never mind. Yes I will. The whole book is a lead up to replicating his experience with the iberico he had in Spain. Finally, he is in Brooklyn and gets to taste it.
    " -hot, fatty, tender. Not meltingly tender like the secreto that I tried on that January night in Aracena, but still quite good."

    That's it? What a wet dream.

    BobinGa and I discussed the book and he had some really interesting experiences to relate.

    We heard about Ossabaw's several of years ago and became
    interested in acquiring some. We only found couple of breeders
    in the country -- mostly sanctuary type places. We inquired
    about buying some pigs and for some reason never got back
    with the breeders when the pigs were to be available.

    Ironically, we received an email during this same time
    from someone named Alison (and Emile) DeFelice in South
    Carolina from the Pig Perfect book), wanting to know how
    we could raise hogs without finishing them on soy. Evidently,
    they were attempting to raise pastured hogs for the high-end
    market and one of our customers told them that we didn't
    finish on soy. I'm not sure whether or not he had any
    Ossabaws at the time or not.

    When we finally convinced them that we thought the two keys
    were to raise feral type hogs and PATIENCE, they didn't seem
    interested. His idea was to turn out #1 hogs (approx 250
    lbs) in 5-6 months or so. Ours generally take 14-16 months
    or longer to reach this. The one Bruce gave you was over
    a year old and still under 200lbs, if I remember right.

    If he already had Ossabaw's at the time, it wasn't working
    as he expected.

    If he acquired them afterwards, I'm sure he is making more
    money selling breeding stock than he ever would have selling
    meat, considering all the recent hype and publicity given
    the Ossabaw breed. And he doesn't have to worry about the
    time and expense of actually raising a proper pig.

    We had straight feral hogs, (Piney Woods Rooters), up
    until several years ago when we started selling meat. This
    was due to my obsessive quest to make the absolute most
    perfect barbecue in America. <G> Ginger wanted to mix
    them with some percentage domestics because of the
    incredible amount of fat they had in relation to meat--
    which was becoming our livelihood. In recent years, our
    hogs have been 50%-75% PW Rooter.

    We're now going back to the 100% rooters and just had
    10 born recently. We do feed them a certain amount of
    soaked corn and they eat tons of pasture along with
    pecans, acorns, persimmons and whatever the can root
    up.

    Supposedly, any hogs that turn feral will return to the
    same traits and characteristics in three generations.
    (the ones that survive, that is) Their color will
    change, the noses will elongate, the hair will become
    coarse and bristly, an they will convert mast and feed
    into fat at a much higher rate, etc.

    According to history, DeSoto brought the original hogs
    (known as Piney Woods Rooters) to the mainland in 1539.
    Kaminsky's claim that none of these today could have
    DNA that traced back to the original Spanish stock
    seems a bit bold -- unless he's tested all of them.
    The Ossabaw's, being stuck and isolated on an island,
    would obviously be easily traceable.


    But in practice, I doubt that there would be any
    meaningful difference in today's Rooters and those
    of yesteryear as well as the Ossabaw's as far as
    characteristics of the meat. But since I've never
    (knowingly) tasted one, I can't say for sure. My
    guess is that raising practices would govern meat
    quality much more than breed, assuming that you
    were comparing a feral breed to a feral breed.
    The domestics fall way short regardless of how
    they are raised, in our experience.


    So, reckon how much ole Emile wants for a couple
    of Ossabaw gilts these days? <G> Maybe we'll write
    him and find out. We would like to have some of
    them, if for no other reason, the novelty of it.
    I wonder how vigorous they would be? Generally
    speaking, most pure-bred stock is a bit on the
    weak side. But they might be different since
    they have not been coddled by breeders over the
    years. But just wait a few years and a few
    generations in the hands of breeders chasing
    the latest pot-of-gold -- they won't be worth
    a plug nickel !


    Kit
    duck fat rules
  • Post #7 - September 21st, 2005, 6:57 pm
    Post #7 - September 21st, 2005, 6:57 pm Post #7 - September 21st, 2005, 6:57 pm
    Great info. Thanks, Kit. Maybe I should have written a book. After my first taste of jabugo, I was obsessed (deluded?) with the idea that I could make my own. I sourced a fresh ham and followed a recipe from a Spanish friend that involved 6 months of curing. Major effort.

    What it as good as jabugo? Not even close!

    Bill/SFNM
  • Post #8 - September 21st, 2005, 7:04 pm
    Post #8 - September 21st, 2005, 7:04 pm Post #8 - September 21st, 2005, 7:04 pm
    G Wiv wrote: buy the book. :) Gary


    Gary,

    Now that Kit revealed the ending, I see no reason to buy the book. :)

    I'm really trying hard to avoid buying more books until I make a dent in the pile cluttering my desk. My cookbook collection reminds me of Imelda's shoe collection.

    Bill/SFNM
  • Post #9 - September 21st, 2005, 7:12 pm
    Post #9 - September 21st, 2005, 7:12 pm Post #9 - September 21st, 2005, 7:12 pm
    G Wiv wrote:
    kit wrote:What does he say about about jamon iberica?

    Bill,

    Kaminsky, the author of Pig Perfect, says the same thing as Kit and me, buy the book. :)

    Enjoy,
    Gary



    Ditto.
    Bruce
    Plenipotentiary
    bruce@bdbbq.com

    Raw meat should NOT have an ingredients list!!
  • Post #10 - September 21st, 2005, 7:22 pm
    Post #10 - September 21st, 2005, 7:22 pm Post #10 - September 21st, 2005, 7:22 pm
    The best thing I got from the book was that pigs don't transform the fats they eat. For instance, if they eat peanuts, they save it as peanut oil. Now, if they if they put on weight by eating carbs, it is saved as highly saturated fats. So if hogs are free range, their fat is much higher in good fats. And they will taste like the oils in the feed. That's why peanut fed pigs are so prized in this country.

    The texture of Dan Gill's ham fat is silky. And it starts to melt at room temperature. That means it is less saturated than store bought ham.

    Think this may translate to humans? So do I.

    Kit
    duck fat rules
  • Post #11 - September 21st, 2005, 9:51 pm
    Post #11 - September 21st, 2005, 9:51 pm Post #11 - September 21st, 2005, 9:51 pm
    kit wrote:The texture of Dan Gill's ham fat is silky. And it starts to melt at room temperature.

    Kit


    Massage oil :?:

    That was a delicious ham. I really enjoyed reading Pig Perfect, even though it was a little too academic at times for me. I do remember at times thinking "What a great quote, I wish I could steal it and use it." while reading various passages. I plan to read it again, and will probably have a highlighter when I do.

    I am going to get a ham from Bob the next time I visit and try my hand at curing it. With any luck I'll be visiting in mid-November which would be the perfect time to bring one home.

    Kit,

    Have you tried curing bacon yet, using Bob's method? What are the results? I smoked a pork jowl last weekend, and am planning on making a big batch of greens with it for a party this weekend. I plan to dice some pieces up to render the fat and saute the greens first before adding some water to simmer them.

    Quackingly,
    Bruce
    Plenipotentiary
    bruce@bdbbq.com

    Raw meat should NOT have an ingredients list!!
  • Post #12 - September 22nd, 2005, 7:02 am
    Post #12 - September 22nd, 2005, 7:02 am Post #12 - September 22nd, 2005, 7:02 am
    I did try the bacon with a pork belly I got locally. Per Bob, I kosher salted it overnight. He said 16-20 hours. I went 24 and it was WAY too salty. I had to soak it overnight in water to get it edible. There was a lot of trimmed fat. I would say the yield was 66%. It is not as 'porky' as Bob's and the fat isn't as smooth, but it is still good. I sliced it all and froze it in 1 lbs packages.

    My new local butcher cures and smokes his own bacon and is cheaper than I can get doing my own. He also makes great sausage and has aged Angus steaks. I think I'll ask him if he needs a root canal.

    Kit
    duck fat rules
  • Post #13 - September 22nd, 2005, 5:56 pm
    Post #13 - September 22nd, 2005, 5:56 pm Post #13 - September 22nd, 2005, 5:56 pm
    I bought a pork belly today at Peoria Packing in Chicago. I'm planning on trying the same method out of the biggest part. I'm going to take the pieces of pork belly that are cut off and make a Tangerine Glazed Pork Belly that Emeril did on his show a couple of nights ago.



    My new local butcher cures and smokes his own bacon and is cheaper than I can get doing my own. He also makes great sausage and has aged Angus steaks. I think I'll ask him if he needs a root canal.


    Root canal, forget that. Wouldn't a couple of cleanings be cheaper for you? I'm sure he's running a 90% overhead :wink:
    Bruce
    Plenipotentiary
    bruce@bdbbq.com

    Raw meat should NOT have an ingredients list!!
  • Post #14 - September 27th, 2005, 4:35 pm
    Post #14 - September 27th, 2005, 4:35 pm Post #14 - September 27th, 2005, 4:35 pm
    Kit,

    I made bacon this weekend and tried it last night. It was not very good. I think its the same as store bought vs. homegrown tomatoes. I guess I need to fly to GA soon.
    Bruce
    Plenipotentiary
    bruce@bdbbq.com

    Raw meat should NOT have an ingredients list!!
  • Post #15 - September 28th, 2005, 9:48 am
    Post #15 - September 28th, 2005, 9:48 am Post #15 - September 28th, 2005, 9:48 am
    I am leaving for Spain tomorrow. Does this mean I can bring back meat for my personal use (like I can cheese and wine)???

    (and hey, any tips on eating in Madrid, Sevilla, Barcelona and Lisbon, PT would be good)

    Lee
    Leek

    SAVING ONE DOG may not change the world,
    but it CHANGES THE WORLD for that one dog.
    American Brittany Rescue always needs foster homes. Please think about helping that one dog. http://www.americanbrittanyrescue.org
  • Post #16 - September 28th, 2005, 9:53 am
    Post #16 - September 28th, 2005, 9:53 am Post #16 - September 28th, 2005, 9:53 am
    leek wrote:I am leaving for Spain tomorrow. Does this mean I can bring back meat for my personal use (like I can cheese and wine)???

    (and hey, any tips on eating in Madrid, Sevilla, Barcelona and Lisbon, PT would be good)

    Lee


    Some discussion of Madrid here:
    http://lthforum.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=5113

    A
    Alle Nerven exzitiert von dem gewürzten Wein -- Anwandlung von Todesahndungen -- Doppeltgänger --
    - aus dem Tagebuch E.T.A. Hoffmanns, 6. Januar 1804.
    ________
    Na sir is na seachain an cath.
  • Post #17 - September 28th, 2005, 9:58 am
    Post #17 - September 28th, 2005, 9:58 am Post #17 - September 28th, 2005, 9:58 am
    Lee,

    My guess would be you can only bring back pork products if they were processed at the newly-blessed-by-the-USDA plant. Otherwise, out of luck.

    Since Iberico takes so long to age, no Iberico you can buy currently will be allowed in..
    Ed Fisher
    my chicago food photos

    RIP LTH.
  • Post #18 - September 28th, 2005, 10:31 am
    Post #18 - September 28th, 2005, 10:31 am Post #18 - September 28th, 2005, 10:31 am
    a friend attempted to bring meat products back into the US after a visit to Spain. The meat was confiscated and destroyed by customs.

    He had declared it on his form. Duh.
    CONNOISSEUR, n. A specialist who knows everything about something and nothing about anything else.
    -Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary

    www.cakeandcommerce.com
  • Post #19 - September 28th, 2005, 10:47 am
    Post #19 - September 28th, 2005, 10:47 am Post #19 - September 28th, 2005, 10:47 am
    Queijo wrote:a friend attempted to bring meat products back into the US after a visit to Spain. The meat was confiscated and destroyed by customs.

    He had declared it on his form. Duh.


    Even if you don't declare it, the super beagle will find it. I saw her find an apple. How smelly can apples be?
    Leek

    SAVING ONE DOG may not change the world,
    but it CHANGES THE WORLD for that one dog.
    American Brittany Rescue always needs foster homes. Please think about helping that one dog. http://www.americanbrittanyrescue.org
  • Post #20 - September 28th, 2005, 10:47 am
    Post #20 - September 28th, 2005, 10:47 am Post #20 - September 28th, 2005, 10:47 am
    Antonius wrote:Some discussion of Madrid here:
    http://lthforum.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=5113


    Yes, I saw and printed that out last week :)
    Leek

    SAVING ONE DOG may not change the world,
    but it CHANGES THE WORLD for that one dog.
    American Brittany Rescue always needs foster homes. Please think about helping that one dog. http://www.americanbrittanyrescue.org
  • Post #21 - September 28th, 2005, 11:49 am
    Post #21 - September 28th, 2005, 11:49 am Post #21 - September 28th, 2005, 11:49 am
    leek wrote:any tips on eating in Madrid, Sevilla, Barcelona and Lisbon, PT would be good)Lee


    In Barcelona, we loved:

    Botafumeiro
    Grande gracia 81
    Barcelona
    +34-93-218-4230

    Outstanding seafood, Galician style.

    Bill/SFNM
  • Post #22 - September 28th, 2005, 9:03 pm
    Post #22 - September 28th, 2005, 9:03 pm Post #22 - September 28th, 2005, 9:03 pm
    In Madrid I stayed in an apartment in the Cuatros Caminos neighborhood, not far from a covered market. We bought all the pork products we could eat--but no more--for the plane ride home. Just be sure that you slice the goodies ahead of time.
  • Post #23 - October 26th, 2005, 12:41 pm
    Post #23 - October 26th, 2005, 12:41 pm Post #23 - October 26th, 2005, 12:41 pm
    For Bob in Georgia and the gentleman from Northern Michigan, I was shocked at accidentally finding a discussion about me and my farming operation with so many glib assumptions and incorrect information. I do not sell breeding stock, and I do take the time and expense to 'raise a proper hog.' I have never used the term '#1 hog' in my life, and I don't take to being referred to as 'ole em' by someone who doesn't know me as if I am some hoo-dooer or having someone speculate about my hard earned income. I have gotten alot of attention and respect because I do things the old fashioned way and produce an authentic piece of meat in an entirely inefficient manner.
    It takes me two years to finish an Ossabaw, and one year to finish one of my other heritage breeds, I grow them slow and fatten them far more than a conventional hog. And I incorporate every bit of old time wisdom from people around the world. In that vein I do remember contacting someone about finishing on soy, and I remember a civil exchange, not this kind of thing that I am reading now.
    As far as the Ossabaw hog, its an interesting meat, like crossing a deer with a pig, dark red meat with ridiculous fat deposits. It is not a commercially viable pig in my opinion, and further I believe you can make a great piece of meat out of almost any pig if you feed the right stuff, like what Bob feeds, and I feed--acorns and the like.
    We small farmers don't need to be cutting each other down, instead we should work together and support one another.
    My farm is viewable at www.cawcawcreek.com .

    Thank you, Emile
    L. Emile DeFelice
  • Post #24 - October 26th, 2005, 2:34 pm
    Post #24 - October 26th, 2005, 2:34 pm Post #24 - October 26th, 2005, 2:34 pm
    Emile:

    Thank you for writing in and providing a link to your site; I enjoyed very much reading about and perusing the pictures of your farm. The products you offer look and sound delicious, and that all the more so given your humane treatment and traditional approach to the feeding and raising of the pigs.

    Antonius
    Alle Nerven exzitiert von dem gewürzten Wein -- Anwandlung von Todesahndungen -- Doppeltgänger --
    - aus dem Tagebuch E.T.A. Hoffmanns, 6. Januar 1804.
    ________
    Na sir is na seachain an cath.
  • Post #25 - October 26th, 2005, 3:20 pm
    Post #25 - October 26th, 2005, 3:20 pm Post #25 - October 26th, 2005, 3:20 pm
    Hi Emile,
    Welcome to the forum. I don't get the same read from Bob's message as you. The discussion we were having was about the economics of Ossabaws. Also the old nature/nurture dichotomy. This discussion was fueled by 'Pig Perfect'. That was how your name came up. I don't think Bob was deriding you at all.

    As far as being called Ole Em, I think you are being to thin skinned.

    Both of you are after the same thing. Quality pork. Like anything else, the goal may have more that one path leading to it. Thank you for your efforts.

    Kit
    duck fat rules
  • Post #26 - October 28th, 2005, 7:37 pm
    Post #26 - October 28th, 2005, 7:37 pm Post #26 - October 28th, 2005, 7:37 pm
    Emile,

    I was looking over your website and agree with Antonius's comments about your methods for raising pork and your dedication to heritage breeds.

    I do have a question regarding your "Cooking Tips". Why is there a recommendation or a need to brine your pork? I have always been under the impression that the flavor of heritage breeds have enough fat and flavor that brining would not be needed. I have quite a bit of heritage pork in my freezer and lok forward to some comments that could convince me to try a brine.

    I have read "Pig Perfect" and found the book very interesting. I have had several discussions with Bob, Kit, and others regarding heritage breeds of pork. I have also spent quite a few weekends at Bob's butchering and bbq'ing his pork. The hogs he raises have an outstanding flavor and are delicious. In fact, I no longer buy store bought pork anymore, because I have become spoiled by the flavor of well raised heritage pork.
    Bruce
    Plenipotentiary
    bruce@bdbbq.com

    Raw meat should NOT have an ingredients list!!
  • Post #27 - October 29th, 2005, 2:12 pm
    Post #27 - October 29th, 2005, 2:12 pm Post #27 - October 29th, 2005, 2:12 pm
    You are right about the brining. I look at it like a cake. Cake is great, but cake with icing is better than just cake. The pork does not need it, its just icing. Brining is also a good defrosting vehicle. But best is the flavoring vehicle, like soy/honey, cane syrup/sea salt, hoisin/brown sugar, steeped herb blends made like a tea for the brine liquid, really just endless tinkering because its fun. And alright, I'm a salt addict.
    I should not have reacted as I did to a conversation of which I was not a part, and I did remain respectful to your friends way of raising pork, which sounds very similar to the actual way I do mine, but not the way it was described. Coming off a long morning and reading all that just ticked me off, and I apologize. Y'all are interesting people and maybe we'll get to 'meat' each other eventually.
    Since its almost Thanksgiving, lets give an extra plug for brining a turkey, the meat which benefits most from the process. Erase the grain and enjoy a moist turkey which is actually tough to overcook if thoroughly brined.
    My group, Carolina Farm Stewardship, is having its annual conference next weekend in Durham. I'm excited because we managed to get Teddy Gentry from the group Alabama to come talk about his grass finished beef, another meat that lots of people love. If you are interested, go to www.carolinafarmstewards.org and check out our agenda, about 600 people will be there.

    Emile
    L. Emile DeFelice
  • Post #28 - October 29th, 2005, 3:19 pm
    Post #28 - October 29th, 2005, 3:19 pm Post #28 - October 29th, 2005, 3:19 pm
    Emile,

    I used to brine turkeys every year. However, I usually find myself injecting turkeys with a butter/hot sauce concoction now. Over the years I have experimented with various cooking methods. My current favorite method is to brine or inject and then butterfly a turkey. I roast various turkey parts, onions, carrots, celery, etc. and then deglaze for stock to make gravy. I prepare the turkey the day before cooking by butterflying, seasoning, and letting the turkey sit overnight uncovered to help dry the skin out a little. The day I cook the turkey I make stuffing, fill a large baking pan with it, and then place the butterflied turkey on a rack over the stuffing. I get great crisp skin and wonderfully flavorful stuffing. The method comes from a Cook's Illustrated article a couple of years ago. CI seems to try and improve their methods each year. This is my favorite way to cook turkey though.

    I'm going to be in Mt. Pleasant, SC on business for a few days in February. I would love to drive out and see your place.

    I think if you hang around you will enjoy this site, expecially if you ever plan to visit Chicago. If you are interested in BBQ there is a low traffic email list here: Society for the Preservation of Traditional Southern Barbecue Bob, Kit, myself, and a few others from this site are on it. There are many others interested in the older ways. Check out Bob's site, Bob in Ga I think you will find you have more in common than differences.

    Happy Halloween
    Last edited by Bruce on October 30th, 2005, 7:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
    Bruce
    Plenipotentiary
    bruce@bdbbq.com

    Raw meat should NOT have an ingredients list!!
  • Post #29 - October 29th, 2005, 9:34 pm
    Post #29 - October 29th, 2005, 9:34 pm Post #29 - October 29th, 2005, 9:34 pm
    Bruce wrote:If you are interested in BBQ there is a low traffic email list here: Society for the Preservation of Traditional Southern Barbecue

    Bruce,

    SPTSB subscription info at that link is out of date. The correct subscription info is:

    To subscribe to the list, send a message to:
    <barbecue-subscribe@sptsb.com>

    To remove your address from the list, just send a message to:
    <barbecue-unsubscribe@sptsb.com>

    Enjoy,
    Gary
    Hold my beer . . .

    Low & Slow
  • Post #30 - October 29th, 2005, 9:57 pm
    Post #30 - October 29th, 2005, 9:57 pm Post #30 - October 29th, 2005, 9:57 pm
    G Wiv wrote:SPTSB subscription info at that link is out of date. The correct subscription info is

    I fixed the subscription info on the SPTSB website. As Bruce said, the SPTSB is a low traffic, but often quite interesting, email listserv.

    Enjoy,
    Gary
    Hold my beer . . .

    Low & Slow

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