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BBC: Is there no such thing as Italian cuisine?

BBC: Is there no such thing as Italian cuisine?
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  • BBC: Is there no such thing as Italian cuisine?

    Post #1 - March 12th, 2025, 11:19 am
    Post #1 - March 12th, 2025, 11:19 am Post #1 - March 12th, 2025, 11:19 am
    According to this article, a good argument can be made that what the world now knows as Italian cuisine is really the result of migration to other countries:
    Is there no such thing as Italian cuisine?
    and that spaghetti carbonara, for example, like budae jjigae, really owes its origins to WWII US Army rations (in this case, bacon and powdered eggs).
    "Your swimming suit matches your eyes, you hold your nose before diving, loving you has made me bananas!"
  • Post #2 - March 12th, 2025, 9:10 pm
    Post #2 - March 12th, 2025, 9:10 pm Post #2 - March 12th, 2025, 9:10 pm
    Everything is a composite. I think the only meal I've ever had with no outside influence was a roasted sheep and fermented mares' milk in Mongolia. Everything else has influences from somewhere else--some going back to 3,000 b.c., some not much further back. I got into a discussion once with someone who insisted that she only like authentic Mexican, such as tacos al pastor, but I pointed out that al pastor is essentially shawarma and was introduced into Mexico by Lebanese immigrants in the beginning of the 20th century.

    That said, since bacon was invented in about 1,000 b.c., by the Celts, I think one could make a case for carbonara predating WWII (and I've heard at least one lecture that takes it back across the centuries.

    But yes -- everything is a mixture. Poland got pierogi from invading Mongols. The word haricot in France's haricots verts is a corruption of a Nahuatl/Aztec word, because that's were the beans came from. The tandoor oven was introduced into India from Central Asia. And the sunflower, which is so vital to Eastern Europe as to have been made the national flower of Ukraine, is from Kansas.

    So there are very few pure, untouched cuisines on the planet--but trading and trying new stuff is very authentic.

    Plus it's worth remembering that even Italy, as an actual country, didn't exist until 1861--it was a cluster of independent city states.
    "All great change in America begins at the dinner table." Ronald Reagan

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  • Post #3 - March 13th, 2025, 1:46 am
    Post #3 - March 13th, 2025, 1:46 am Post #3 - March 13th, 2025, 1:46 am
    I've read the "charcoal maker" theory mentioned here a number of times in various sources: https://www.simplyrecipes.com/recipes/s ... carbonara/

    It makes the most sense with the name, which the war surplus food theory doesn't explain at all. But it also seems like there would be at least one published pre-WW2 account.
  • Post #4 - March 13th, 2025, 10:16 am
    Post #4 - March 13th, 2025, 10:16 am Post #4 - March 13th, 2025, 10:16 am
    Thanks - I enjoyed that article! In a similar vein, I heard an historian named John Dickie talk about his book (although I think his focus is more on a misconception that Italian food is Rural vs Urban). :

    Delizia!: The Epic History of the Italians and Their Food

    I think one of the interesting things about Italian food in this regard is the difference between the perception of its origins and the reality - and why the misperception exists (and is so strongly defended). Maybe I'll even read the book someday :)

    Here is the podcast in case anyone is interested:
    https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/the-food-that-changed-the-world/id1537788786?i=1000663686435

    - zorkmead

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