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About Tips and Tipping
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  • Post #91 - August 15th, 2013, 8:22 am
    Post #91 - August 15th, 2013, 8:22 am Post #91 - August 15th, 2013, 8:22 am
    Here's an interesting series written by Jay Porter on running both a tip and "tipless" (actually a service charge system) restaurant in San Diego.
    http://jayporter.com/dispatches/observa ... -overview/

    mike
    Stickin' together is what good waffles do!
  • Post #92 - August 15th, 2013, 11:23 am
    Post #92 - August 15th, 2013, 11:23 am Post #92 - August 15th, 2013, 11:23 am
    Pie Lady wrote:I was eating out with Mr. Pie this morning at The Bungalow, where the owner doubles as the waitress. She had one of those fancy iPad checkout systems, and apparently there is no way to add the tip, which I think was hooey. She said she did not want a tip because she was the owner. She insisted, being a stubborn Irish girl; I mentioned my husband was also Irish and left $5. Has anyone heard of this before? I heard that when you go to a salon and the owner does your hair, you don't have to tip, but I never thought about it for restaurants. Thoughts?


    Tipping is to help waitstaff, who are paid less than minimum wage in the expectation that they can & will make up the difference in tips. A person who owns their own business generally does not fit that income profile.

    PS: Federal minimum wage for "Tipped Employees" (i.e. waitstaff) is $2.13/hr, an amount which has not increased since 1991.
    Last edited by Roger Ramjet on August 15th, 2013, 8:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.
    fine words butter no parsnips
  • Post #93 - August 15th, 2013, 2:14 pm
    Post #93 - August 15th, 2013, 2:14 pm Post #93 - August 15th, 2013, 2:14 pm
    Mikelipino wrote:Here's an interesting series written by Jay Porter on running both a tip and "tipless" (actually a service charge system) restaurant in San Diego.
    http://jayporter.com/dispatches/observa ... -overview/

    mike


    Fascinating.


    Now, in California and several other states, the “tip credit” is not allowed, and the restauranteur has fewer options. The recourse most commonly used in these states is the “tipout”. Here the servers just give a portion of their tips to the kitchen, usually as part of a cultural expectation created within the restaurant. The problems with depending on a voluntary tipout to equal out the pay on the team are:
    Some servers may decide to withhold a tipout, in a sense cheating the system, and the employers is precluded from redressing this; and
    Servers may use that option of withholding their tipout, to extract special favors from the kitchen regardless of whether those favors hurt other guests or other servers.

    Went to a breakfast favorite and waited over 20 minutes from the time the receipt said our order was entered into computer. It wasn't crowded. I didn't recognize the server. Told her we were in a hurry when I ordered and ask her to bring the bill . I earnestly wondered if she had cheated the kitchen on tipout.
    Ava-"If you get down and out, just get in the kitchen and bake a cake."- Jean Strickland

    Horto In Urbs- Falling in love with Urban Vegetable Gardening
  • Post #94 - August 15th, 2013, 2:43 pm
    Post #94 - August 15th, 2013, 2:43 pm Post #94 - August 15th, 2013, 2:43 pm
    I thought so too. I was particularly struck by the fact that the waitstaff are just the front line, and that any good or bad experience are due to the daisychain of waiters, cooks, and dishwashers, all of whom depend on the tip pool to make a living. Getting a better understanding of the inner workings here, the finding that increased tipping only loosely correlates to better service, and this real world comparison of tips vs. service charge makes me want to support the service charge model more.

    mike
    Stickin' together is what good waffles do!
  • Post #95 - August 15th, 2013, 6:02 pm
    Post #95 - August 15th, 2013, 6:02 pm Post #95 - August 15th, 2013, 6:02 pm
    pairs4life wrote:The recourse most commonly used in these states is the “tipout”. Here the servers just give a portion of their tips to the kitchen, usually as part of a cultural expectation created within the restaurant. The problems with depending on a voluntary tipout to equal out the pay on the team are:
    Some servers may decide to withhold a tipout, in a sense cheating the system, and the employers is precluded from redressing this; and
    Servers may use that option of withholding their tipout, to extract special favors from the kitchen regardless of whether those favors hurt other guests or other servers.


    Just a clarification: Requiring waitstaff to tip out to other restaurant employees who are not tipped employees is illegal under the federal Fair Labor Standards Act. Generally, employees who interact with the patrons, like food runners, bussers, bartenders, and so on, can be subject to tip pooling, but sharing tips with kitchen staff is prohibited. It is just one way business owners unfairly attempt to pass labor costs onto tipped employees in this distorted system. Service fees, on the other hand, are not considered tips or gratuities under the FLSA, and thus business owners can distribute (or keep) the fees as they see fit, provided their employees receive at least minimum wage.
    The meal isn't over when I'm full; the meal is over when I hate myself. - Louis C.K.
  • Post #96 - August 15th, 2013, 9:44 pm
    Post #96 - August 15th, 2013, 9:44 pm Post #96 - August 15th, 2013, 9:44 pm
    Yes, the article, it's kind of long & in 4 parts, makes that clear.
    Ava-"If you get down and out, just get in the kitchen and bake a cake."- Jean Strickland

    Horto In Urbs- Falling in love with Urban Vegetable Gardening
  • Post #97 - August 15th, 2013, 10:37 pm
    Post #97 - August 15th, 2013, 10:37 pm Post #97 - August 15th, 2013, 10:37 pm
    The notion that servers are paid only the $2.13 is just that...a notion. As an owner (we pay well above minimum fwiw) we are obligated to pay up the difference should a server not make at least the minimum wage. We're a small Pub in a small town, and when tracked, our servers on a regular week-day shift will earn anywhere from $11.75 to $23.00 an hour. A weekend dinner service routinely puts $30+ hourly in their pockets. We treat our servers as family and no one leaves us unhappy. My dream someday is to take a paycheck home myself! :? I think were we forced into a situation where our food had to be sold at a price necessary to meet payroll on top of everything else, we'd simply go out of business. No one down here anyway will pay the price it would take to shoulder the payroll. I also contend that many owners would oblige the paying of a new minimum were there no tipping, but in the end it's the server who will suffer b/c all they'll make is that minimum. Who wins?

    BTW...the $2.13 figure is national...Illinois is $8.25. Yes low and unlivable if that is the net wage, but we all know it's not.
    D.G. Sullivan's, "we're a little bit Irish, and a whole lot of fun"!
  • Post #98 - August 20th, 2013, 3:19 pm
    Post #98 - August 20th, 2013, 3:19 pm Post #98 - August 20th, 2013, 3:19 pm
    In the case of carry-out or delivery, I'll do 15-20%. In most restaurants, it's a waitress who is putting the order together. Usually one section is designated also as the "carry out" person...unless that restaurant has its own carry out counter/window.

    With buffets where drinks are served by servers, I'll do like I do at a bar. $1-$2 per drink.
    Traveling the world through cuisine
    http://www.culinariablog.com
  • Post #99 - August 20th, 2013, 3:34 pm
    Post #99 - August 20th, 2013, 3:34 pm Post #99 - August 20th, 2013, 3:34 pm
    What about buffets where you get it yourself at a fountain, like Country Buffet? I think we do a buck or two.
    I want to have a good body, but not as much as I want dessert. ~ Jason Love

    There is no pie in Nighthawks, which is why it's such a desolate image. ~ Happy Stomach

    I write stuff.
  • Post #100 - August 20th, 2013, 4:08 pm
    Post #100 - August 20th, 2013, 4:08 pm Post #100 - August 20th, 2013, 4:08 pm
    Pie Lady wrote:What about buffets where you get it yourself at a fountain, like Country Buffet? I think we do a buck or two.


    If I'm not being served by anyone at any point...then I don't leave a tip.

    I mean, why leave a tip if you're not being served by a human being?
    Traveling the world through cuisine
    http://www.culinariablog.com
  • Post #101 - August 20th, 2013, 4:23 pm
    Post #101 - August 20th, 2013, 4:23 pm Post #101 - August 20th, 2013, 4:23 pm
    Culinaria wrote:
    Pie Lady wrote:What about buffets where you get it yourself at a fountain, like Country Buffet? I think we do a buck or two.


    If I'm not being served by anyone at any point...then I don't leave a tip.

    I mean, why leave a tip if you're not being served by a human being?

    Sometimes the human beings bus the tables and do other nice things for you, other than serving. I remember taking my son to a local buffet when he was little and the folks who worked there were very kind to him and to us in all sorts of ways. I always felt good about leaving them tips and I'm guessing they were happy to receive them.

    =R=
    Same planet, different world
  • Post #102 - September 4th, 2013, 4:22 am
    Post #102 - September 4th, 2013, 4:22 am Post #102 - September 4th, 2013, 4:22 am
    Leaving a Tip: A Custom in Need of Changing?

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/04/dinin ... .html?_r=0
    Never order barbecue in a place that also serves quiche - Lewis Grizzard
  • Post #103 - September 4th, 2013, 7:24 am
    Post #103 - September 4th, 2013, 7:24 am Post #103 - September 4th, 2013, 7:24 am
    ronnie_suburban wrote:
    Culinaria wrote:
    Pie Lady wrote:What about buffets where you get it yourself at a fountain, like Country Buffet? I think we do a buck or two.


    If I'm not being served by anyone at any point...then I don't leave a tip.

    I mean, why leave a tip if you're not being served by a human being?

    Sometimes the human beings bus the tables and do other nice things for you, other than serving. I remember taking my son to a local buffet when he was little and the folks who worked there were very kind to him and to us in all sorts of ways. I always felt good about leaving them tips and I'm guessing they were happy to receive them.

    =R=

    But you've hit the nail on the head: They had specific, direct interaction with you and your son. If they're just doing the basic job, I don't see the point of a tip. I have the same problem with hotel housekeeping: A clean room is what I paid for. If I never see you, and you don't interact with me in any way... what's the tip for?
    What is patriotism, but the love of good things we ate in our childhood?
    -- Lin Yutang
  • Post #104 - September 4th, 2013, 7:44 am
    Post #104 - September 4th, 2013, 7:44 am Post #104 - September 4th, 2013, 7:44 am
    JoelF wrote:But you've hit the nail on the head: They had specific, direct interaction with you and your son. If they're just doing the basic job, I don't see the point of a tip. I have the same problem with hotel housekeeping: A clean room is what I paid for. If I never see you, and you don't interact with me in any way... what's the tip for?

    The housekeeping example is an instructive one, from which I draw the opposite conclusion. Instructive, because it makes me realize that a big component of why I tip is my perception that a given service person is woefully underpaid. I'm lucky not to have financial want. I don't take that for granted. So I feel good about sharing with someone who is performing a service for me and probably barely making a subsistence living from it. Which applies in the world of restaurants as well.

    Mind you, I'm truly not arguing with you in the sense of telling you what I think you or anyone else should do. But I am treating your question as not rhetorical, and answering it as I would answer it.
  • Post #105 - September 4th, 2013, 8:16 am
    Post #105 - September 4th, 2013, 8:16 am Post #105 - September 4th, 2013, 8:16 am
    Dave148 wrote:
    Leaving a Tip: A Custom in Need of Changing?

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/04/dinin ... .html?_r=0


    Interesting point in the article about the disparity in compensation between back of the house and front of the house. Why does the waiter deserve a tip and the line cook have to make do with meager hourly wages?
  • Post #106 - September 4th, 2013, 8:27 am
    Post #106 - September 4th, 2013, 8:27 am Post #106 - September 4th, 2013, 8:27 am
    Some places pool them and the tips go to everybody...correct me if I'm wrong.
    I want to have a good body, but not as much as I want dessert. ~ Jason Love

    There is no pie in Nighthawks, which is why it's such a desolate image. ~ Happy Stomach

    I write stuff.
  • Post #107 - September 4th, 2013, 8:38 am
    Post #107 - September 4th, 2013, 8:38 am Post #107 - September 4th, 2013, 8:38 am
    Pie Lady wrote:Some places pool them and the tips go to everybody...correct me if I'm wrong.


    Right, as mentioned in the article, but many do not.
  • Post #108 - September 4th, 2013, 3:56 pm
    Post #108 - September 4th, 2013, 3:56 pm Post #108 - September 4th, 2013, 3:56 pm
    I believe it is mentioned upthread, but:

    Legally, a pooled house must include only those employees who make base, which is an hourly less than minimum wage. So your server, your busser, your runner. Anyone in a restaurant making (in this state) $4.95/hr can take a cut (or more than a cut) from the pool. In my house the server takes 2.5 cuts, and everyone else in the pool takes 1 cut.

    A tip pool should not be confused with a tip out. A pool is just that: all the gratuity that every employee earns goes into a pot, and then the pot is divvied up according to the appropriate cut. A tip out is a server taking only their personal gratuity at the end of the shift, and dividing it up according to the house rules: 35% to the busser, 10% to the runner, etc.

    Legally, this does not include the host, the line cooks, or anyone else making minimum wage or more. I'm not saying these employees don't deserve more per hour across the board--they do. I'm not saying there are not houses that require servers to tip out these employees, or even make them part of a tip pool--it happens. I have worked in houses where the servers were required to tip out the sous chefs to compensate for their bullshit salaries.

    But by law gratuity can not be shared among employees who make minimum wage or more without gratuity.
  • Post #109 - September 6th, 2013, 5:38 pm
    Post #109 - September 6th, 2013, 5:38 pm Post #109 - September 6th, 2013, 5:38 pm
    rickster wrote:
    Dave148 wrote:
    Leaving a Tip: A Custom in Need of Changing?

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/04/dinin ... .html?_r=0


    Interesting point in the article about the disparity in compensation between back of the house and front of the house. Why does the waiter deserve a tip and the line cook have to make do with meager hourly wages?


    Because the waiter's hourly wage is even more meager than the line cook's?
    fine words butter no parsnips
  • Post #110 - September 6th, 2013, 6:03 pm
    Post #110 - September 6th, 2013, 6:03 pm Post #110 - September 6th, 2013, 6:03 pm
    When I was growing up, my Dad was a notoriously cheap tipper. Whenever we went out to eat, my mom would slip me some $$ under the table. As we were leaving, I would hang back a little and hide the money under my plate.
  • Post #111 - September 9th, 2013, 1:45 pm
    Post #111 - September 9th, 2013, 1:45 pm Post #111 - September 9th, 2013, 1:45 pm
    An updated tax rule is causing restaurants to rethink the practice of adding automatic tips to the tabs of large parties.

    Starting in January, the Internal Revenue Service will begin classifying those automatic gratuities as service charges—which it treats as regular wages, subject to payroll tax withholding—instead of tips, which restaurants leave up to the employees to report as income.

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... ding_now_3
    Never order barbecue in a place that also serves quiche - Lewis Grizzard
  • Post #112 - October 14th, 2015, 4:29 pm
    Post #112 - October 14th, 2015, 4:29 pm Post #112 - October 14th, 2015, 4:29 pm
    In a sweeping change to how its restaurant employees are paid, the Union Square Hospitality Group will eliminate tipping at Gramercy Tavern, Union Square Cafe and its 11 other restaurants by the end of next year, the company’s chief executive, Danny Meyer, said on Wednesday.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/15/dinin ... -ipad&_r=0
    Never order barbecue in a place that also serves quiche - Lewis Grizzard
  • Post #113 - October 14th, 2015, 7:37 pm
    Post #113 - October 14th, 2015, 7:37 pm Post #113 - October 14th, 2015, 7:37 pm
    Apparently, the Radler already did this last week...
    "Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit; wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad." Miles Kington
  • Post #114 - October 19th, 2015, 9:16 am
    Post #114 - October 19th, 2015, 9:16 am Post #114 - October 19th, 2015, 9:16 am
    I think a pioneer in this has been the hotel industry. For the last several years at least, room service bills have had 18-or-so percent added on to them as a gratuity.

    Initially I was skeptical and suspicious--did that money really go to the room service waiter? I wondered whether it was just another way for the hotel to "enhance" its revenue, leaving the waiter with squat if the hotel guest didn't add on an additional gratuity. But no. Apparently it's legit. (Or at least legit in some hotels.) I've occasionally insisted on adding something either on the bill or in the form of cash, and while some waiters accept gratefully, others politely and gratefully insist back at me that it is truly not necessary.
    Pithy quote here.
  • Post #115 - October 19th, 2015, 10:14 am
    Post #115 - October 19th, 2015, 10:14 am Post #115 - October 19th, 2015, 10:14 am
    reading between the lines of the article on the radler (a favorite place of mine), it seems that the kitchen staff will be getting a share of the tacked on service charge. this still is the dark and dirty problem with restaurants, IMO. the people who carry out the chef's wishes; who work in hot and frenzied conditions; who actually feed us- are underpaid and under appreciated. so if this new policy catches on, i think it's a tremendously positive step forward. danny meyer clearly had this in mind when he eliminated tips. he says in the above article that the wages for kitchen staff has risen about 25% in the last 30 YEARS, while servers wages have gone up 200%. i hope this spreads like wildfire across the country.
  • Post #116 - October 19th, 2015, 10:57 am
    Post #116 - October 19th, 2015, 10:57 am Post #116 - October 19th, 2015, 10:57 am
    justjoan wrote:reading between the lines of the article on the radler (a favorite place of mine), it seems that the kitchen staff will be getting a share of the tacked on service charge. this still is the dark and dirty problem with restaurants, IMO. the people who carry out the chef's wishes; who work in hot and frenzied conditions; who actually feed us- are underpaid and under appreciated. so if this new policy catches on, i think it's a tremendously positive step forward. danny meyer clearly had this in mind when he eliminated tips. he says in the above article that the wages for kitchen staff has risen about 25% in the last 30 YEARS, while servers wages have gone up 200%. i hope this spreads like wildfire across the country.


    Means nothing without knowing what the pre-increase wages were. Server salaries are still below minimum wage in most of the US. Not so for kitchen staff. And now kitchen staff wants part of the servers' tips?

    Anybody who doubts the relative importance of FOH and BOH should sit down with a beverage and spend some time reading Yelp reviews. A clear majority of negative reviews are based on perceived FOH issues.
    fine words butter no parsnips
  • Post #117 - October 19th, 2015, 12:02 pm
    Post #117 - October 19th, 2015, 12:02 pm Post #117 - October 19th, 2015, 12:02 pm
    Roger Ramjet wrote:
    justjoan wrote:reading between the lines of the article on the radler (a favorite place of mine), it seems that the kitchen staff will be getting a share of the tacked on service charge. this still is the dark and dirty problem with restaurants, IMO. the people who carry out the chef's wishes; who work in hot and frenzied conditions; who actually feed us- are underpaid and under appreciated. so if this new policy catches on, i think it's a tremendously positive step forward. danny meyer clearly had this in mind when he eliminated tips. he says in the above article that the wages for kitchen staff has risen about 25% in the last 30 YEARS, while servers wages have gone up 200%. i hope this spreads like wildfire across the country.


    Means nothing without knowing what the pre-increase wages were. Server salaries are still below minimum wage in most of the US. Not so for kitchen staff. And now kitchen staff wants part of the servers' tips?

    Anybody who doubts the relative importance of FOH and BOH should sit down with a beverage and spend some time reading Yelp reviews. A clear majority of negative reviews are based on perceived FOH issues.


    Except A) that is anemic wage growth in any profession (far less than inflation over the same period) and B) you obviously didn't read the article where it plainly states that wait staff are making far more than kitchen staff due to tips. Of course, there is a huge inequality in tipping compensation that is mostly down to geography and typical clientele than anything to do with quality of service.

    I don't even think a flat gratuity makes sense, just put the damn service prices into the dishes' price and pay people appropriately. Then again, I hate tipping and I hate how it often puts me in awkward situations.
  • Post #118 - October 19th, 2015, 4:49 pm
    Post #118 - October 19th, 2015, 4:49 pm Post #118 - October 19th, 2015, 4:49 pm
    botd wrote:
    Except A) that is anemic wage growth in any profession (far less than inflation over the same period) and B) you obviously didn't read the article where it plainly states that wait staff are making far more than kitchen staff due to tips. .


    A) Perhaps. And the solution is to take money away from the servers?

    B) (1) No, I did not. The capsule description of the article did not make me think the article was worth reading.

    B) (2) Of course they do.

    B) (2) (i) Everybody knows that.

    B) (2) (ii) Good for them.
    fine words butter no parsnips
  • Post #119 - October 21st, 2015, 10:38 am
    Post #119 - October 21st, 2015, 10:38 am Post #119 - October 21st, 2015, 10:38 am
    To add to this thread, here is an article from NYT recently on the shortage of cooks.

    Not enough cooks.

    I never realized the pay disparity between the front end and the actual people making my food in the mid-to-high level restaurants. I go to a restaurant for food. I really never went back to a restaurant that had bad food, because the service was great. I also never did not, not go back to a restaurant where the food was great but the service was bad.

    Cooks need to get paid more than the servers. That seems logical. I go to a restaurant for food. Pay the cooks more than servers, goddammit.
  • Post #120 - October 25th, 2015, 3:55 pm
    Post #120 - October 25th, 2015, 3:55 pm Post #120 - October 25th, 2015, 3:55 pm
    As the mother of a line cook, I'm mighty glad to see a beginning discussion of the inequity of restaurant wages. I have no trouble tipping but knowing that the BOH gets none of that cash is ridiculous. In Chicago, line cooks at good, high end spots are getting around $12 an hour or so with no benefits and often a bunch of hours off the clock (and folks who cook at Next, etc get less than that). The ones I know can't imagine doing anything else - but can't survive on what they make.http://www.lthforum.com/2015/05/assumptions-ground-up/

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