If what happened to the taste of RedHook and Widmers are any indication, it does not bode well for GI. But I didn't know AB owns Leffe and Czechvar. That is interesting since Czechvar's real name is Budweiser, but it couldn't be marketed here under that name, because of trademark infringement issues. I wonder if AB aquired the Czech Budweiser just out of spite, and does it still taste the same or does it taste like American Bud now?

I just have to point out that AB basically was bought out by Inbev and Leffe was an Inbev brand, not an AB brand. Redhook was certainly an AB deal that they ran for at least a decade prior to being bought by the Brazilian/Belgium brewers and I believe the Widmer deal was similar.

My only point is for better or worse, the management of AB today is significantly different than when it was being run by the Busch family.

To me, this acquisition is a very good thing. Some are worried that GI's better brews will disappear or change for the worse. I don't mind that since there are plenty of great beers out there. My "beer problem" is that there are plenty of venues that only have crappy beer: Baseball games, 95% of bars in Chicago, for example. These places are only going to stock beer that is distributed by one of the large players. Being in the A-B portfolio doesn't mean that GI's more pedestrian beers are going to be available everywhere, but it does mean that the chance that I'm able to have it as an option next to the usual suspects of Bud, Bud Lite, etc. has increased.

Darren72 wrote:To me, this acquisition is a very good thing. Some are worried that GI's better brews will disappear or change for the worse. I don't mind that since there are plenty of great beers out there. My "beer problem" is that there are plenty of venues that only have crappy beer: Baseball games, 95% of bars in Chicago, for example. These places are only going to stock beer that is distributed by one of the large players. Being in the A-B portfolio doesn't mean that GI's more pedestrian beers are going to be available everywhere, but it does mean that the chance that I'm able to have it as an option next to the usual suspects of Bud, Bud Lite, etc. has increased.

I was thinking the same thing. Hopefully GI beers will be playing a more prominent role at venues where AB is the main (or only) concessionaire. I would certainly welcome the choice of a Honker's in those situations where it is Bud or Nothing. It would be great if the beer vendors at the ball parks started offering Goose on tap or even bringing it to your seat. It may also open some new choices at festivals and street fairs. I wonder if this change will mean GI will switch to twist-offs or (god forbid) cans. As far as the Goose's specialty brews go, I am sure Greg Hall has a lot of new options open as a brewmaster, now that he has a big old wad o' cash in his pocket. I hope he chooses to stay in the business.

d4v3 wrote:I am sure Greg Hall has a lot of new options open as a brewmaster, now that he has a big old wad o' cash in his pocket. I hope he chooses to stay in the business.

According to this interview, it's unlikely he will.

nr706 wrote:

d4v3 wrote:I am sure Greg Hall has a lot of new options open as a brewmaster, now that he has a big old wad o' cash in his pocket. I hope he chooses to stay in the business.

According to this interview, it's unlikely he will.

Oh well. That is a good interview, though. 100 years ago, Chicago was the top brewing city in the country (maybe the world). In 1900, there were over 5000 Chicagoans working in the brewing business producing 100 million gallons of beer each year. The industry continued to grow even larger over the next 2 decades, until prohibition struck. Thanks to Elliot Ness, and his cronies, the beer industry in Chicago was completely wiped out. Most of the breweries moved to Milwaukee, where law enforcement seemed a little more lenient. It is about time Chicago reclaimed its former glory as a brewing center. I like that the Halls insisted that Goose Island continued to be brewed in Chicago, and the fact that GI being brewed in Chicago played a big role in attracting A-B's interest. If Goose Island becomes Chicago's first national beer brand in many decades, we could do a lot worse (remember Meister Brau?). I still wonder if they will switch to twist-off bottles.

d4v3 wrote:I still wonder if they will switch to twist-off bottles.

If they ever put Bourbon County Stout in a twist-off, that's when I'll swear off Goose. Doubt it'll happen.

But I really don't care about the cap - I care about what's inside the bottle.

I would happily drink Goose Island beer from a can. The economic and ecological benefits of can-packaging notwithstanding, who cares what receptacle the beer's served in? Besides, if you're that much of a beer snob, you'll be pouring your beer into an appropriate glass vessel, anyway. :-p

d4v3 wrote:

Darren72 wrote:To me, this acquisition is a very good thing. Some are worried that GI's better brews will disappear or change for the worse. I don't mind that since there are plenty of great beers out there. My "beer problem" is that there are plenty of venues that only have crappy beer: Baseball games, 95% of bars in Chicago, for example. These places are only going to stock beer that is distributed by one of the large players. Being in the A-B portfolio doesn't mean that GI's more pedestrian beers are going to be available everywhere, but it does mean that the chance that I'm able to have it as an option next to the usual suspects of Bud, Bud Lite, etc. has increased.

I was thinking the same thing. Hopefully GI beers will be playing a more prominent role at venues where AB is the main (or only) concessionaire. I would certainly welcome the choice of a Honker's in those situations where it is Bud or Nothing. It would be great if the beer vendors at the ball parks started offering Goose on tap or even bringing it to your seat. It may also open some new choices at festivals and street fairs. I wonder if this change will mean GI will switch to twist-offs or (god forbid) cans. As far as the Goose's specialty brews go, I am sure Greg Hall has a lot of new options open as a brewmaster, now that he has a big old wad o' cash in his pocket. I hope he chooses to stay in the business.

IIRC, A-B has been the major distributor for GI for years now. Granted, now that they actually OWN the brewery, they might push the product a bit harder...

rickster wrote:

If what happened to the taste of RedHook and Widmers are any indication, it does not bode well for GI. But I didn't know AB owns Leffe and Czechvar. That is interesting since Czechvar's real name is Budweiser, but it couldn't be marketed here under that name, because of trademark infringement issues. I wonder if AB aquired the Czech Budweiser just out of spite, and does it still taste the same or does it taste like American Bud now?

I just have to point out that AB basically was bought out by Inbev and Leffe was an Inbev brand, not an AB brand. Redhook was certainly an AB deal that they ran for at least a decade prior to being bought by the Brazilian/Belgium brewers and I believe the Widmer deal was similar.

My only point is for better or worse, the management of AB today is significantly different than when it was being run by the Busch family.

And did you see that A. Bush #4 has left the AB Board, leaving no Bush family member involved in actual management?

NB: Entirely pointless and useless, yet fun fact filled disclosure: I once met August Bush IV after he landed his helicopter on the grounds of Emerson Electric outside of St. Louis, where I was working and he was there for a Board meeting. I'm sure he won't remember me, but I never forgot meeting someone who pops out of his own helicopter.

A day later, I think I've come around on this and agree with some others here that it's good, overall. The brewery and employees stay here, they get to make more (and more innovative styles) and it really shines a spotlight of one of Chicago's best exports (IMO). Any negatives I can think of are purely emotional/irrational. I mean, Sears Tower is now Willis Tower, Carson's is going to be a Target and lest we forget, Marshall Field's (which, yes, hasn't been a Chicago-based company for a long time) is now Macy's.

Hell, even if I'm concerned that my dollars will be heading to AB-InBev in the end, the fact is that AB-InBev has been reaping a share of Goose's profits for a while now - does it make a difference if it's X% or Y%? Not to mention that the distribution companies are largely aligned with the big guys and take their cut and send it up the corporate ladder, too. People who want to avoid sending money to the big 3 brewing companies better start buying directly from the local brewpubs.

When Time Out Chicago ran their drinking issue a few weeks back, they talked to the guy behind the upcoming Finch's brewery. He made the mistake of admitting that he didn't know much about beer when he started the company and only chose beer since he felt it would be a good item to market and sell (never mind that the brewer he hired was formally at Flossmoor and will actually handle the brewing side of things). The immediate outrage and scorn was a little unsettling - while there might be a romantic/punk idea that beer should be local and independent, it's not necessarily realistic (or even a bad thing if it isn't). I like Three Floyds well enough but I don't even remember the last time I was able to buy any of their beer in a store. I want to be an enthusiastic supporter of them for their beer, not their (arguably lack of) business acumen.

Word is that Hex Nut Brown, Oatmeal Stout and the Christmas Ale will be able to come back this year or next, too, on account of the deal.

danimalarkey wrote:I like Three Floyds well enough but I don't even remember the last time I was able to buy any of their beer in a store.

I don't mean to take this entirely off-topic but I see at least a few varieties of their product (Alpha King, Gumball Head, Robert the Bruce, etc.) at my local Binny's regularly.

=R=

ronnie_suburban wrote:

danimalarkey wrote:I like Three Floyds well enough but I don't even remember the last time I was able to buy any of their beer in a store.

I don't mean to take this entirely off-topic but I see at least a few varieties of their product (Alpha King, Gumball Head, Robert the Bruce, etc.) at my local Binny's regularly.

=R=

Consider yourself lucky then. There are tons of stores in the Chicago area that go weeks without getting a new shipment of Three Floyds, or when they do it is gone before it even sees the shelves.

Then I think I should start shopping at your Binnys!

And, I mean, point taken - but the Lincoln Park Binny's or Grand Ave., where I often stop, rarely gets more than two cases a week - either Alpha King/Gumbalhead or Robert the Bruce/Pride & Joy. I don't think Adam at Lincoln Park bothers putting them on the shelf even since they never last. If I don't make it in on the same day as when the shipment comes in, I'll miss out on any seasonal bombers that may have been included (Behemoth and Rabid Rabbit come to mind). And I know where to go if I really want to track down a few bombers (or six-packs) but even then, it's hit or miss. My larger point only being that it's great that FFF can/will remain a truly independent operation - but there is a legitimate and very real downside, one that Goose probably will not have to suffer through with the deal.

Also, no one has mentioned the sodas that Goose currently produces (well, outsources, as it turns out). Here's an article that touches on what could happen to them: http://www.bevnet.com/news/2011/fate-of ... n-the-wind

the wimperoo wrote:

ronnie_suburban wrote:

danimalarkey wrote:I like Three Floyds well enough but I don't even remember the last time I was able to buy any of their beer in a store.

I don't mean to take this entirely off-topic but I see at least a few varieties of their product (Alpha King, Gumball Head, Robert the Bruce, etc.) at my local Binny's regularly.

=R=

Consider yourself lucky then. There are tons of stores in the Chicago area that go weeks without getting a new shipment of Three Floyds, or when they do it is gone before it even sees the shelves.

danimalarkey wrote:Then I think I should start shopping at your Binnys!

And, I mean, point taken - but the Lincoln Park Binny's or Grand Ave., where I often stop, rarely gets more than two cases a week - either Alpha King/Gumbalhead or Robert the Bruce/Pride & Joy. I don't think Adam at Lincoln Park bothers putting them on the shelf even since they never last. If I don't make it in on the same day as when the shipment comes in, I'll miss out on any seasonal bombers that may have been included (Behemoth and Rabid Rabbit come to mind). And I know where to go if I really want to track down a few bombers (or six-packs) but even then, it's hit or miss. My larger point only being that it's great that FFF can/will remain a truly independent operation - but there is a legitimate and very real downside, one that Goose probably will not have to suffer through with the deal.

I guess I just have an odd vantage point because I live in an area near a fairly big, recently-expanded Binny's but I don't think people in my area are particularly big drinkers in general. Also, there are literally hundreds of different beers on the shelves at this store, which makes the absence of one or another much less significant.

As for the takeover, the sentimentalist in me is sad because in spite of what's being said now and what the prospective plans are, the decision-making will soon be in the hands of folks -- however sincere, skilled and well-intentioned -- who are not Chicagoans. Having lived here for almost my whole life, it's always a bit of an emotional blow when a local business becomes less local, even if it may portend tangible improvements. Not saying it's rational . . .

=R=

Maybe Logan square is an outliier, but I always see Three Floyds on store shelves here even at foremost and in smaller corner stores.

The more I think about this the more I think about beer in the US in general, and overall it just makes me happy. In the mid-80's there were very few good beers that were easily available. Honker's was something that people thought of as a "dark" beer when it came out. I remember being happy to find places that had Leinie's Red on tap. The situation has changed drastically - I think d4v3 nailed it by saying Honker's is the new Bud. Tastes have changed (for the better) and it looks like the flat sales of Bud have motivated AB to recognize that.

Since AB/InBev has recognized that, I don't think they're going to screw it up like they did with Redhook. As others have noted it is a different company now, managed by InBev, who are accustomed to great beers. It's also important to remember that all of Goose Island's best beers (Matilda, BCS, Sofie, etc.) all came out AFTER their distribution agreement with AB. In some ways this feels like AB throwing in the towel and trying to make money off of craft brewers by letting them do their job instead of trying to do it themselves.

It also doesn't hurt that we've had Half Acre, Metropolitan, Revolution, Haymarket and Finch's arrive on the scene over the last few years. I wouldn't be surprised if this purchase means we'll see more breweries opening in the near future.

It's possible that this is just a coincidence, but i think it's interesting that just days before the announcement honker's ale and 312 showed up on aldi shelves. At about $11 for 12 bottles, i think.

laikom wrote:It's possible that this is just a coincidence, but i think it's interesting that just days before the announcement honker's ale and 312 showed up on aldi shelves. At about $11 for 12 bottles, i think.

I think it's pretty common to find them at Dominick's/Jewel for roughly the same price.

I hope they start remaking the GI Pilsener. I thought that was a great beer for the price and a good example of that style. I was hoping a good American made Pilsener would win over some of the MGD and Bud fans and other more hops adverse drinkers. Unfortunately, I don't think the market was ready for an American Pils at the time. The micro-brew crowd was in the middle of the "hoppier the better" kick sucking up really high ABV and IBU brews, which made the Mass-Lagerheads even more reluctant to try new things. I think the time is right for a well marketed American made Pils. It might shift the American Beer market towards more carefully crafted brews.

This will be an interesting change in the company culture. The brewers in St. Louis are miserable since the ImBev takeover.

If you're looking for a craft pils, consider Victory's Prima Pils of Lagunitas' Pils - both are very solid expressions of the style. I believe the Clybourn brewpub just put on tap their Golden Goose Pilsner and you could always pick up a growler of that.

I agree, too, that we've seen plenty of high ABV/IBU beers and some balance is needed (thank goodness for Metropolitan). I was reading the epic beeradvocate thread on the sale and someone suggested that Goose's Summertime (a Kolsch) was the first result of the AB-InBev takeover, since it's a relatively mild, low-ABV/IBU and, to soem, an unexciting beer. Never mind that Goose has been producing it for a long time (as long as I can recall)...

The brewers in St. Louis are miserable since the ImBev takeover.

Do you mean "brewers" as in manufacturing, or the overall staff? I know there were tremendous cuts in headcount and benefits that impacted staff and would really hit morale, but I have no idea if they changed brewery operations, cost reduced product, etc.

danimalarkey wrote:If you're looking for a craft pils, consider Victory's Prima Pils of Lagunitas' Pils - both are very solid expressions of the style. I believe the Clybourn brewpub just put on tap their Golden Goose Pilsner and you could always pick up a growler of that.

I agree, too, that we've seen plenty of high ABV/IBU beers and some balance is needed (thank goodness for Metropolitan). I was reading the epic beeradvocate thread on the sale and someone suggested that Goose's Summertime (a Kolsch) was the first result of the AB-InBev takeover, since it's a relatively mild, low-ABV/IBU and, to soem, an unexciting beer. Never mind that Goose has been producing it for a long time (as long as I can recall)...

I like both those pilseners, especially the Lagunitas, but they are relatively new. GI's Pils came out (IIRC) about 6 years ago, that was what I meant by them being ahead of the market. Also it was way more accessible price-wise at $11-$12 a twelve pack instead of $10/ six. I am glad that some of the microbrewers are trying their hand at more subtle and balanced beers. Anybody can take a s**tload of high alpha hops and some high alcohol producing yeast and create a beer with a super macho sounding name and a bite to match. Don't get me wrong, I am a big hophead (I even grow my own), but I have become a little tired of the "my beer is hoppier than yours" mentality. If the cheap lager swilling masses are going to get more sophisticated in their preferences we need companies like AB to push slightly more sophisticated brews, but nothing way over the top. Not long ago, I saw Nick Floyd and his crew drinking PBRs. I don't know if they were doing market research or if even the Floyds are getting a little burned out on high-alpha concoctions.

Here's my question:

Do we love Goose because of the taste or because it's "ours" in a kind of patriotic/jingoistic way? It's like when the Brits bought and renamed the Sears Tower. Is the Willis Tower that great a building or did we just want to feel like we owned it?

Goose's small-batch beers (Matilda, Pere Jacques, Bourbon County) are at worst excellent and at best revelatory. I've yet to taste a better American-made Belgian-style than the Matilda. But Honkers and 312, as someone mentioned, are already "introductory" craft beers that even the frattiest fratboy could enjoy.

I don't drink Honkers to drink Honkers, I drink Honkers when I want a cold beer that doesn't taste like shit. I'd love to keep buying Honkers and 312, especially in the warmer months, but I'm happy to switch to Sierra Nevada or even, heaven help us, a Sam Adams if Bud screws with it. Hell, I drink Stella more than 312 anyway, and it's worth the extra dollar or two for a full case.

That said -- Bud, if you take away my Matilda, I will be a sad man indeed.

Not so much about the acquisition, but if you want to congratulate/rant against Greg Hall in person, here's your chance:
http://www.thefeast.com/chicago/restaur ... 42354.html

The menu (food and beer - all three sisters in one place!) looks great. Shame I'll be away on April 6.

For me, most of my Goose Island purchases are at the brewpub. I rarely buy 4-packs or 6-packs. I'll pick up as much BCBS and its variants as I can afford, but that's about it. I'm more likely to have some Half Acre in the fridge these days.

Speaking of BCBS variations, Greg Hall has said in some of the interviews going around lately that this year will see Bramble Rye - a blackberry-spiked big stout aged in rye barrels. I'm not one for fruit in beers, but I'll give it a shot (if I can find it).

jsagoff wrote:It's like when the Brits bought and renamed the Sears Tower. Is the Willis Tower that great a building or did we just want to feel like we owned it?

I think the Willis Tower episode is simply a matter of dumb thoughts being spoken outloud. Sears paid for the naming rights to the building even after they vacated and sold it. Eventually they decided not to pay for naming rights. Why they should retain naming rights that they decided to stop paying for is beyond me. I presume people who want the name to remain as the Sears Tower also think they should be able to sell their house but continue to use it; you know, for old times' sake.

Seems to me like GI was already expanding into beers that can be marketed to Bud drinkers with 312. Not for nothing, but the bartender at Back Bay Social in Bostontold me a few months ago that 312 is by far the biggest seller and had been since shortly after GI started distributing there. In Sam Adam's town. The kids love it. GI seems to have a good mix of labels that work for InBev/AB on the mass-market level as well as serious beer cred with stuff like the Belgian styles. Without 312 and, to a lesser extent Honkers, the deal doesn't make sense. I predict 312 will be taking taps away from Sam Adams at airports and Applebee's all over the place soon.

Also, Daisy Cutter in a can is f'ing brilliant, Nothing inherently wrong with cans.

JeffB wrote: Not for nothing, but the bartender at Back Bay Social in Bostontold me a few months ago that 312 is by far the biggest seller and had been since shortly after GI started distributing there. In Sam Adam's town. The kids love it.

Sounds like the Fat Tire frenzy that hit Chicago some time back.

Yeah. Glad that's over. But Fat Tire, which I've always thought is the most overrated beer ever (I find it affirmatively bad, not just undistinguished), was popular because kids had it when they went skiing and you couldn't get it here. From my discussions and observations in Boston that evening, no one had any prior experience with 312 or knew it was from Chicago. It seemed like everyone just liked the idea of a "micro" that's as light as Stella and has a really cool tap handle.

Had an interesting beer tasting last night at The Cellar in Evanston. There was a Goose rep there, and the tasting pitted some of Goose's sour sisters against their Belgian counterparts. Orval vs. Matilda, Saison DuPont vs.Sophie, and Chimay Blue vs. Pere Jacques. In most cases, the Goose beers were comparable, although the Sophie fell a a bit short compared to the DuPont. Part of the problem was that the Goose beers were fresh, and IMHO these beers are better with a year or two of age on them.

But, of course, the Goose rep talked about the takeover. The most interesting thing for me (and I don't know what its real implications are) is that, unlike Bud buying Redhood, Widmer and Kona, and putting them under the Craft Brewers Alliance umbrella, Goose will be owned outright by AB. But John Jall is staying on as CEO, so, at least initially, AB will be taking a hands-off approach.