Smoque does not offer hot links or tips so I am unclear how you made the Honey 1 vs Smoque comparison.

Yeah, Gary, if you inferred that from my post maybe I wasn't clear enough. What I meant to say that, in general, Honey 1's tips and links are really good and the only item offered there, IMHO, that compares with the food, in general, at Smoque, even though it was also my understanding that Smoque did not offer the same item (tips and links). Sorry for any confusion.

I really do need to try Uncle John's and Lem's though. Any others I'm missing?

And, FWIW, I really like, sometimes love, Honey 1's tips and links. I like the place. I like the guys that run it and wish them well. But, objectively, as much as I want to like there food, I just don't. Especially their ribs which I said before I think are really bad. I've had them at many times of the day, days of the week a total of about 5 times and it's the same every time: extremely chewy (shoe leather quality) ribs. My jaw hurts after eating those things. How in the hell can the tips be so good and the ribs bad? Are the tips from the same part of the pig or meat product as the ribs?

Lastly, as I've said here before in other ways, regarding the great LTH rib debate, good eats is good eats. I don't give a rat's ass how you cook your ribs (ohter than curiosity and my yearning for more knowledge ) as long as they taste good, have a good texture, are rubbed well, marinaded well, spiced well, etc. My favorite type of ribs, if I could put ribs into three very general high level categories are a dry-rubbed rack with BBQ sauce on the side as opposed to fall-off-the-bone or a wet-rub/marinade non fall off the bone. Those are three genenral types of ribs I go by instead of others' focus on the cooking style. I don't give a damn if the ribs are grilled, smoked, smoqued, BBQ'd, boiled, broiled, basted, par-anything, or throw on a rock in the middle of the desert and scortched, etc.

I also love fall-off-the-bones ribs notably at Gale Street Inn, Twin Achors, etc. And I have a great suspicision that if we put some of my learned, self-proclaimed fall-off-the-bone-hater LTH friends in a room with no windows, locked the door, set a wonderful plate of fall-off-the-bone style ribs in front of them with a nice baked or 2x-baked potato lon the side and told them "no one will ever tell what you did here today" I imagine most plates would be licked clean within 10 minutes or so? . You know I'm right!

Bster

Bster wrote:Especially their ribs which I said before I think are really bad. I've had them at many times of the day, days of the week a total of about 5 times and it's the same every time: extremely chewy (shoe leather quality) ribs...
Lastly, as I've said here before in other ways, regarding the great LTH rib debate, good eats is good eats. I don't give a rat's ass how you cook your ribs (ohter than curiosity and my yearning for more knowledge ) as long as they taste good, have a good texture, are rubbed well, marinaded well, spiced well, etc.

I have exactly the opposite reaction. I think Smoque's ribs (especially the BBs) are mushy and overly moist, thanks to the self-basting rotisserie. I like my ribs to have some chew. On the other hand, the self-basting feature produces some very nice brisket.

By nature, because of the method of cooking, the type of barbecue that Honey 1 produces is much drier. I have eaten BBQ in Arkansas, and can say that Honey 1, faithfully reproduces the style of BBQ found there. It does tend to have a dry crusty exterior. I say again, they are completely different creatures and should not be directly compared. You either like the style, or you dont. If you don't like it, that doesn't mean it is "bad". It just means you don't like the style.


Ok, now I will shutup. This discussion is starting to seem very familiar.

d4v3 wrote:

Bster wrote:Especially their ribs which I said before I think are really bad. I've had them at many times of the day, days of the week a total of about 5 times and it's the same every time: extremely chewy (shoe leather quality) ribs...
Lastly, as I've said here before in other ways, regarding the great LTH rib debate, good eats is good eats. I don't give a rat's ass how you cook your ribs (ohter than curiosity and my yearning for more knowledge ) as long as they taste good, have a good texture, are rubbed well, marinaded well, spiced well, etc.

I have exactly the opposite reaction. I think Smoque's ribs (especially the BBs) are mushy and overly moist, thanks to the self-basting rotisserie. I like my ribs to have some chew. On the other hand, the self-basting feature produces some very nice brisket.

By nature, because of the method of cooking, the type of barbecue that Honey 1 produces is much drier. I have eaten BBQ in Arkansas, and can say that Honey 1, faithfully reproduces the style of BBQ found there. It does tend to have a dry crusty exterior. I say again, they are completely different creatures and should not be directly compared. You either like the style, or you dont. If you don't like it, that doesn't mean it is "bad". It just means you don't like the style.


Ok, now I will shutup. This discussion is starting to seem very familiar.

Dave,

The Q at Honky Tonk is produced on a Southern Pride and has the dryness and chew you describe. Different settings yield different results.

Hammond (P.S. Saw Doan a few weeks ago; he remembered you as being, circa 1968, kind of "cocky" ).

David Hammond wrote:The Q at Honky Tonk is produced on a Southern Pride and has the dryness and chew you describe. Different settings yield different results.

Hammond,

Using a Southern Pride is no guarantee of consistency, I've had a full range of abominable BBQ cooked on SPs. That's the thing about Smoque, they use a Southern Pride extremely effectively, much more so than most.

Enjoy,
Gary

Bster wrote:I also love fall-off-the-bones ribs notably at Gale Street Inn, Twin Achors, etc. And I have a great suspicision that if we put some of my learned, self-proclaimed fall-off-the-bone-hater LTH friends in a room with no windows, locked the door, set a wonderful plate of fall-off-the-bone style ribs in front of them with a nice baked or 2x-baked potato lon the side and told them "no one will ever tell what you did here today" I imagine most plates would be licked clean within 10 minutes or so? . You know I'm right!

Bster,

I've eaten, and posted about, both Twin Anchors and Gale Street any number of times, I like them both, TA for it's burgers and old school charm, GS for it's classic convivial bar and good burgers. I've also had the ribs at both and do not find them to my liking.

Neither Twin Anchors or Gale Street are serving BBQ ribs, what they offer is Chicago Style Baked ribs with BBQ Sauce. To be called BBQ there must be interaction between meat and wood smoke. I find the texture of the rib meat at both places mushy, meat jello, verging on mealy. The BBQ sauce, which is applied with abandon, is sticky sweet and serves to cover the flavorless pork pudding.

Question about Smoque, what do you order there ribs wise, Baby Back or Saint Louis style?

Enjoy,
Gary

Y'know, Gary, I generally agree with you, but you lose me when you start using the term "pork pudding" as an insult... that sounds like something I really want to try

Gwiv wrote:Question about Smoque, what do you order there ribs wise, Baby Back or Saint Louis style?

Gary, on this last visit to Smoque, we only tried the Baby Back ribs....but, on a previous visit (several months ago (6+ maybe?)) we tiored both the Baby Backs and the St. Louis. I like the Baby Backs better but from my vague recollection of my previous visit I seem to recall liking the St. Louis ribs as well. I'll have to try them again next time. Any comments on Smoque's Baby Back v. St. Louis?

Also, totally agree on the incredible atmosphere at Gale Street Inn in the bar...the GF and I ate there on Sunday for lunch and sat in one of those comfy bar booths watching the Bears get crushed...very good Chicken Tomatillo soup, burger, and Steak Sandwich (if a little fatty).

I've written of GSI's bar area in another post, it is truly one of my favortie places in all of Chicagoland. Interestingly, I do not find the vibe in the dining room of GSI to be that welcoming.

Bster

G Wiv wrote:Using a Southern Pride is no guarantee of consistency, I've had a full range of abominable BBQ cooked on SPs. That's the thing about Smoque, they use a Southern Pride extremely effectively, much more so than most.

Despite Southern Pride's own PR, there must still be some skill involved in producing decent product using their system, otherwise everybody would be up to Smoque's standard, and as G Wiv pointed out, they are not. When I spoke of consistency, I meant from one batch to another, not from one establishment to another. Even then, the greatest contributing factor to product consistency seems to be having a constant turnover, and Smoque certainly has that going for it.

David Hammond wrote:The Q at Honky Tonk is produced on a Southern Pride and has the dryness and chew you describe. Different settings yield different results.

I will definitely have to give Honky Tonk a try the next time I am down that way. Maybe the moistness depends on whether one uses the "self-basting" rotisserie or not.

P.S. Saw Doan a few weeks ago; he remembered you as being, circa 1968, kind of "cocky"

And I still am. Was that assessment from the elder or the younger? If coming from the elder, I consider it high praise indeed, considering his own penchant for cockiness. Actually, I was probably not much cockier than your average 13 or 14 year old. Funny, though, I always pictured myself as sullen and morose in my early teens. Guess I was less miserable than I remember. Sorry this is OT, but I had to reply

For the record, I also like the atmosphere of both Twin Anchors and Gale Street Inn. If I had to eat the ribs at either place, I would definitely choose Gale Street over Twin Anchors.

Uncle John's is the true 'cue for me, I join others in urging everyone to try it. Get the tip and link combo (sauce on the side!) with the fries saturated in meat drippings and tell me that doesn't taste like the best summer day in some unimaginably comfortable American time with friends and family surrounding you for a Sunday picnic in the clearing. Or something.

Gary knows I'm unenamored with Honey-1. Consistency is an issue for me there, I don't like the links anywhere near as much as Uncle John's, and I think the pricepoints are wacky. Comparing the total amount of food and rich quality of sides I get at Smoque for $10 to what I can get at Honey-1, I am always happier and fuller at the former, even though I KNOW that Honey-1 has the capacity to deliver the transcendent on any given day. This is to say: I've been more impressed by the best day at Honey-1 than the best day at Smoque, but I can't keep forking over $20 to Honey-1 for what can be C+ barbecue on a particular night.

To those asking the Adams team to work on their sides: they made a concession to the neighborhood by adding a pulled pork sandwich to the menu, but they charge $8 for it with no fries and to me have always seemed annoyed when I order it. I'd rather be able to go in there and get a perfect slab and succulent tips and links on a daily basis, and I think they'd be happier to serve that anyway than fuss with mac and cheese.

By the way: is this either the most coy or the least helpful recipe ever given out by a restaurant?

http://www.wttw.com/main.taf?erube_fh=w ... ipieID=203

G Wiv wrote:

David Hammond wrote:The Q at Honky Tonk is produced on a Southern Pride and has the dryness and chew you describe. Different settings yield different results.

Hammond,

Using a Southern Pride is no guarantee of consistency, I've had a full range of abominable BBQ cooked on SPs. That's the thing about Smoque, they use a Southern Pride extremely effectively, much more so than most.

Enjoy,
Gary

Fully agree. That was my point: you can produce different results on an SP depending upon how it's set up.

Santander wrote:Uncle John's is the true 'cue for me, I join others in urging everyone to try it. Get the tip and link combo (sauce on the side!) with the fries saturated in meat drippings and tell me that doesn't taste like the best summer day in some unimaginably comfortable American time with friends and family surrounding you for a Sunday picnic in the clearing. Or something.

I second that emotion! Uncle John's is far and away my favorite in Chicago.

I can't comment on Uncle Johns, but I do BBQ on a smoker a lot and can tell you one thing...cooking tips and links well is a lot easier than cooking brisket and ribs. Don't get me wrong here, there is an art to great links, but I believe that art is really in making a high quality sausage. The cooking is not terribly difficult. The hard part with brisket is that every cut is a bit different. A 13 lb packer cut could take me 18 hours to cook just right one day. A different one of the same weight may take 23 hours the next. I'm still learning.

While the tips are obviously part of the rib rack, I think the texture is more recognizable to one when eating a rib vs. a rib tip. Thus, rib quality is easier for one to discern, thus making it more difficult to consistently cook well. I don't think cooking a rack of ribs is terribly difficult. I think the difference we see at the high quality joints (Smoque/Honey 1) really results from a personal preference of the bbq chef. Some folks like the ribs with bit more tooth than others.

If Uncle John's has better links than Honey1, then I'm intrigued. Unfortunately the days of me getting into that part of the city are long gone. But if I get close, I'll have to check it out.

On a tangent, I was in Colorado Springs last month. Close to our hotel was a BBQ that I remembered our hosts telling us about last year. So we decided to give it a try. I was giddy with joy when I saw they offered multiple meat combinations. Pick any 2, 3 or 4 of their meats with sides. And two of the meats were burnt ends (brisket or pork) and hot links.

So I ordered the burnt end brisket and hot links along with fries and onion rings. Suffice to say, the onion rings were the best part of the meal. If burnt ends means cooking the meat to the consistency of pot roast, well this place nailed it. I think they use a crock pot for a smoker. And the links tasted like Oscar Meyer smoky links.

If that hadn't sealed my opinion of my hosts idea of good BBQ, it was solidified the next day when they told us how excited they were that they now had a Famous Dave's in the area.

So, we can argue Smoque, Honey1, Uncle John's etc. all day long. Yea, this isn't the best BBQ city. But it could be a lot worse.

midas wrote:I think they use a crock pot for a smoker.

:lol:

d4v3 wrote:

midas wrote:I think they use a crock pot for a smoker.

:lol:

You laugh, I had to eat it!!!!!

If Uncle John's has better links than Honey1, then I'm intrigued.

Be intrigued. Mack gave his custom hometown recipe to Grant Park Packing and they make them just for him. Remarkable spice level and snap.

I've written of GSI's bar area in another post, it is truly one of my favortie places in all of Chicagoland. Interestingly, I do not find the vibe in the dining room of GSI to be that welcoming.

I've only been there once but I agree. The bar was hopping, a compact and active space; the restaurant was a big empty hall, like a million other restaurants in small towns and shopping malls and airports. It could really use a redo to make the space more intimate and less of a barn.

midas wrote:If Uncle John's has better links than Honey1, then I'm intrigued. Unfortunately the days of me getting into that part of the city are long gone. But if I get close, I'll have to check it out.

It's a matter of personal preference. It's the same links as at Barbara Ann's (Mack, who used to be the pitmaster at BA, opened up UJ's a couple years ago). Uncle John's links are a coarse grind, and they taste a little bit more sage-y than Honey 1's. I'm only so-so on Honey 1's links, but that's because I don't like the finer grind that much (if I'm not mistaken, they use Moo & Oink hot links). The flavor is great. My brother, on the other hand, prefers H1's to UJ's, so you'll have to find out for yourself.

Wife and myself to Honey 1 and have this to report.

We ordered the gizzards


along with a half slab and an order of tips, everything sauce on the side.

The tips were meaty to a degree where I can't really think of another BBQ spot that compares.
Not just meaty but juicy, and remember we got ours sans sauce. The meat was nicely charred and only a couple pieces were dry at all despite the fact that it was slow during the second half of the bears game.
We ate in house and only saw 3 other orders go out

The ribs were good- though I am a tip man and will have to defer serious judgment - but my wife thought they were as good as any of her favorites.

The fries were standard frozen thick cut and underdone so they did not hold up well under the stacks of meat. Not bad at all but nothing like Smoque or some of the other fresh cut locales.
However, I do feel that we are getting more fries now than earlier visits when I felt shorted on occasion - so things are getting a little better.

The gizzards were huge for 7.95 and nicely battered with a good solid flavor without being overbearing. A little chewy but I fully recommend them.

Every time I eat the sauce I am surprised by how well it goes with the meat. It is nice and somewhat subtle without the heavy corn syrup taste I usually encounter - though I have no idea if Honey 1 uses corn syrup.
I would venture to say that it is the best sauce in town (Lem's, Heckeys, Robinsons, etc) - Will gladly take suggestions for alternative favorites-

We also ran across the street to snag a couple Sam Smiths Organic Lagers which is always a big score for me..

so all in all this meal proves again why Honey 1 is my top pick for BBQ.

third coast foodie wrote:Every time I eat the sauce I am surprised by how well it goes with the meat. It is nice and somewhat subtle without the heavy corn syrup taste I usually encounter - though I have no idea if Honey 1 uses corn syrup.

I agree about the sauce, my favorite in town, also. However, I believe they use open pit as a base, which lists corn syrup as its first ingredient.

gleam wrote:

third coast foodie wrote:Every time I eat the sauce I am surprised by how well it goes with the meat. It is nice and somewhat subtle without the heavy corn syrup taste I usually encounter - though I have no idea if Honey 1 uses corn syrup.

I agree about the sauce, my favorite in town, also. However, I believe they use open pit as a base, which lists corn syrup as its first ingredient.

Thanks - still better than high fructose corn syrup..

but who know what is in it According to the website it has no fat, no nutrients, and no sugar?????



http://www.kraftfoodservice.com/productsandbrands/ProductSpecific.htm?option=product&id=797

INGREDIENTS: HIGH FRUCTOSE CORN SYRUP, WATER, DISTILLED VINEGAR, TOMATO PUREE (WATER, TOMATO PASTE), SALT, MODIFIED FOOD STARCH, CONTAINS LESS THAN 2% OF: SOYBEAN OIL, HYDROLYZED CORN AND SOY PROTEIN, SPICE, ONION POWDER, DEHYDRATED GARLIC, ARTIFICIAL TOMATO FLAVOR, NATURAL AND ARTIFICIAL FLAVOR, COLORED WITH (YELLOW 6, RED 40, BLUE 1, TITANIUM DIOXIDE), CARAMEL COLOR

That said, I really fine the HFCS-bashing silly. It's basically just fructose and glucose, which show up in virtually every other sweetener you would ever use. In fact, adding honey to the open pit base, as Honey 1 does (I think), would increase the overall percentage of sweeteners that come from fructose.. making it... higher-fructose corn syrup?

Now, if the complaint is that sweeteners are vastly overused and that, in this case for instance, the natural sweetness (from fructose, sucrose, and glucose) of the tomatoes and other vegetables should be allowed to shine, I agree.

fwiw, modified food starch and maybe hydrolyzed corn and soy protein are stand-ins for MSG, and of course the tomatoes are high in free glutamates, creating an MSG-like effect on their own.

It's hard to decide where in Chicago to go with six LA sophisticates for a Sunday night dinner, so we took them to Honey One. It was the perfect choice. The eight of us polished off 3 slabs of ribs, a big bucket of tips, half a chicken, six wings and a pulled pork sandwich. We washed it all down with several six-packs of beer and a couple bottles of wine.
I'm delighted to report the food was stellar, the staff was most gracious and our guests were absolutely dazzled.
I get the feeling they'll be talking about this evening for a long time to come.

Paul SL wrote:It's hard to decide where in Chicago to go with six LA sophisticates for a Sunday night dinner, so we took them to Honey One. It was the perfect choice.

Paul,

Robert Adams graciously donated dinner and a Pit Tour as a Purple Asparagus silent auction item. I took the four lucky winners, part of the package was me along to regale with BBQ info, stories and general BBQ raconteur. None of the four had been to Honey One, two of the four were of the Twin Anchors school of ersatz BBQ. One bite of Honey One's ribs, tips and links, and I had four oohing and ahhing converts on my hands.

Newly converted to the joys of Honey One.
Dori, Janeil, Carson, Carlos


Enjoy,
Gary

G Wiv wrote: One bite of Honey One's ribs, tips and links, and I had four oohing and ahhing converts on my hands.

Changing the world, one slab at a time.

Immediately jumping out of that picture to me is that Janeil and Carlos are wearing white shirts to a barbecue restaurant! That is one definition of brave.

That might be my favorite food related photograph of all time. Carlos has the look on his face that one might have tasting a 1961 Chateau Petrus. I can picture the glass of wine in his hand....

iblock9 wrote:That might be my favorite food related photograph of all time. Carlos has the look on his face that one might have tasting a 1961 Chateau Petrus. I can picture the glass of wine in his hand....

Actually, I think it's the look of someone who just had the quail egg ravioli at Schwa.':cry:'

I am comforted by the knowledge that the Adams family continues their tradition of providing essential gustatory peak experiences.

oh my god you guys - i just got done with a rack of spare ribs. the best i've ever had from Honey 1 - which places them high in the running for best spare ribs i've ever had, period.

I mean, this was an A+ meal today.

I'm so incredibly happy right now i can't even explain it.

i heart honey 1 so much

Yeah, Honey1 had their A game today! I stopped in there for lunch today and had myself a half slab. We're better than they've been in a while. My past couple visits, I'd been going for the tips/links combo because the ribs had been tough/burnt on a number of occasions.