I agree with Ronnie. PGC remains my go to place for weekend breakfast and has become a favorite destination for dinner with the parents as well. The fact that I no longer have to endure the latest concept from Lettuce Entertain You if I want to have dinner with my parents is reason enough for GNR renewal in my book.

I've only been to PGC twice, but both meals (a brunch and a dinner) were memorable. Sure, the food isn't out-of-this-world creative. But, it is solid and a decent value for what it is.

PGC is one place where I'll always leave room for dessert, especially pie. And, that says something as usually I have little or no interest in dessert. PGC also turns out great sausages, something that many of us know is difficult to do. Of course, I also like their commitment to using sustainable and local products, some of which they grow on the restaurant's grounds.

I look forward to warmer weather when I know we'll be headed to PGC for brunch, followed by a trip to the Botanic Garden, a great weekend combo.

In a part of the burbs that's generally lacking for great food, PGC is a gem and deserves GNR renewal.

Ronna

I have never eaten there and have no opinion one way or the other, but respect what I've heard about Stegner's approach and am eager to try Prairie Fire one of these days.

That said... there's such an undercurrent of "Well, it's good for the suburbs" in the posts by its supporters that I start to wonder. The GNRs have graded on a curve for the burbs in terms of quantity of mentions, nobody expecting Chaihanna to have as many posts as Kuma's, but they've never graded on a curve for quality based on being in the land of malls and chains-- except possibly in this one case.

Certainly with the only comparable suburban high end GNR, Vie, there's no suggestion that it is being ranked against anything other than the finest restaurants anywhere in Chicago. I don't think that's how things read here, and I think that's a serious issue for the committee to consider— in a different location with serious competition, would you take this restaurant as seriously as a contender for one of the best, most distinctive ones in the area? Or rather-- since personal feelings and ties are not what voting is supposed to be based on-- would you say that LTHers on the whole would?

I think PGC hits the criteria for GNR status on every level. I tend to "grade on the curve" when I consider GNRs in under represented areas, but in the case of Prairie Grass, that is not necessary. It can hold it's own regardless of location.

I never accepted the concept of "pretty good for the suburbs," much less used those words (which is a condescending view of the suburbs in any case and something a suburbanite would never say). If one were to say that a place is much better than anything else near Midway, for example, would that mean it is pretty good for the city?

PGC stands well on its own, but it is a subtle pleasure, by design. The goal is to take fairly simple, traditional dishes and ingredients, and raise them up through the use of the best quality, locally sourced, sustainably produced, ingredients available, and perfect technique. It executes, and helped to pioneer in Chicago, a type of restaurant that is exceedingly fashionable these days, and most often disappointingly so (like blackened a few years back, we will know the nadir has been reached when Appleby's introduces its locally sourced menu, probably meaning they bought it from national distributors who have warehouses less than 100 miles away from the restaurant).

On top of that, PGC has a warmth and a level of engagement - with its clientele, the food community, and the surrounding neighborhood - that is exemplary.

But there is a self-effacing, almost diffident character to PGC. The virtuosity displayed here is in the service of understatement, of making a simple, but perfect, grilled cheese sandwich, as opposed to adding 14 different types of cheese, putting it on a brioche and trying to transform the grilled cheese sandwich into something that while it relates to a grilled cheeses sandwich, relates to it in the way that the work of Phillip Johnson relates to the work of Mies van der Rohe - less is more for PGC in most things. They seem happy to serve you a perfect poached egg, simple and unadorned, as opposed to layered with truffles and other extravagances. They are highly accomplished chefs who would prefer to be unnoticed it seems, most of the time - uncelebrity chefs, if you will. I find that very refreshing.

So I admire and enjoy PGC for the technique, the ingredients, the warmth and the engagement, and even for the modesty. I would not mind if they were a little more adventurous, but I do view it as a great place, and even though it is a long drive, it is, like most GNRs, a place I wish I got to a little more often.

Having said that, the LTHForum community is the judge of whether or not a place is a GNR. As one member, I know it gets the great and the neighborhood parts right for me.

Sigh, I knew I'd be accused of suburb-bashing sooner or later.

Of course, expecting the burbs to be held to the same standards of excellence as the city is the exact opposite of condescension.

Anyone who thinks that PGC is merely 'good for the suburbs' (did anyone actually say this?) should go there now and order the Wild Alaskan Halibut. Lightly encrusted in brioche crumbs and sauteed, it's as good a fish preparation as I can remember ever having. The food here, while not exotic or particulary offbeat is consistently excellent, and that goes from the appetizers all the way down to the house-made desserts.

=R=

Mike G wrote:Sigh, I knew I'd be accused of suburb-bashing sooner or later.

I'm not above or, depending on your perspective, below a little suburb-bashing now and then but by no means does Prairie Grass fall into the 'good for the suburbs' category. Subtle in style, beautifully executed food with devotion to seasonal, sustainable and delicious.

It took me a couple of visits to start to really appreciate PG, nuance, subtlety, quality of ingredients, talent of the chef, not unlike a classic movie that, at first blush, seems simply an engaging romp, but halfway through the third viewing you become aware of depth, complexity, continuity and storyline.

Mike, I suggest a meal at PG, maybe Saturday or Sunday brunch to start, have smoked salmon benedict and a side of house-made ancho sausage and let us know what you think.

Prairie Grass Cafe - Count me a fan!

Enjoy,
Gary

Guys, the question isn't convincing me, my opinion of the restaurant is of no particular importance, the question is...

The GNR committee will review recent posts on each restaurant up for renewal, both on the renewal threads and the forum at large, and will ratify each renewal based on the consensus of the board... To determine this we look for a number of members to confirm that they continue to dine there and find the place as good as or better than 2 years ago.

So it'd be nice to hear from people who don't have a drink named for them there, although as heavy as the GNR committee has come out to lay down the line on this one, hard to imagine that happening now.

Count me as a fan, and I'm certainly never eager to head to the 'burbs. I don't really see it as being "good for the suburbs". You basically get the same thing now at Prairie Fire, which I would consider just as good as many highly thought of restaurants in the city.

Yes on renewal for me.

Mike G wrote:Guys, the question isn't convincing me, my opinion of the restaurant is of no particular importance, the question is...

The GNR committee will review recent posts on each restaurant up for renewal, both on the renewal threads and the forum at large, and will ratify each renewal based on the consensus of the board... To determine this we look for a number of members to confirm that they continue to dine there and find the place as good as or better than 2 years ago.

So it'd be nice to hear from people who don't have a drink named for them there, although as heavy as the GNR committee has come out to lay down the line on this one, hard to imagine that happening now.

For the record, I taught them the drink, which I learned at Bar DeVille, about a year after I originally nominated PGC for a GNR back in 2008. I did this because I wanted to enjoy this cocktail at a bar near my home. Since I am regular customer, they accomodated me. They probably thought it was a pain in the ass but they did it. That's just one thing that well-run restaurants do.

Now that it is renewal time and I'm the original nominator, I wanted to express my support for renewal. Not doing so would be inappropriate. My relationship with the people who own and run PGC is transparent and described in multiple places in these forums. I have nothing to hide and have no hidden agenda. However, just in case anyone missed it in the many posts in which I've mentioned it, the people who own and run this restaurant are my friends. We became friends through my going to the restaurant so frequently. Before it opened, I had never met them. I am also business partners with them in an entirely separate venture. Again, this professional relationship came to be over a year after I originally nominated PGC for a GNR and about 5 years after PGC opened (and is something I've mentioned in every relevant post). The bottom line is that if I didn't love this restaurant, the relationship I have with these people would have likely never developed because it largely developed via my spending time there.

Many others here have also expressed their support for renewal. The main PGC thread is also filled with praise (and some criticism, too). But the only person who's posted anything negative thus far during the current renewal period is someone who admits to never having eaten there. My cards are -- and have always been -- entirely on the table. I think that's abundantly clear and my posts in these forums clearly bear that out. What's curious to me is why a person who's never been to a particular restaurant could possibly have such strong negative opinions about it, so strong that multiple posts were required to convey them.

=R=

Oy.

This to me is what's wrong with the renewal process. Even to do something as simple as try to see if there is, in fact, a broad base of support for a restaurant beyond one or two prominent posters or not is to invite getting browbeaten by its partisans and having your motives impugned about doing so (by now I am both a suburb-hater and a dishonest poster of negative opinions without having eaten there, even when the first words of my first post in this thread clearly stated my lack of an opinion and my purpose in raising the question). Why would anyone speak up honestly at this point? Why make trouble for yourself?

Prairie Grass Cafe is a gem in an area blessed with great restaurants and diners of unusually discerning tastes. I enthusiastically support renewal!!!

Mike G wrote:Why would anyone speak up honestly at this point?

Free will. I don't see the conspiracy, or any fear of retribution or rebuke (from who?). Those that wish to participate can and will, regardless of what is posted before them. I don't think this is idealistic; having been observing the process for three years, and coming into it with no stakes in the board's origin or history, the GNR process is the exact opposite of suppression; it in fact does everything possible to stimulate posts, re-evaluations, and perspectives. I look forward to your posts (and everyone's) in other threads, based on firsthand data!

I am a big fan of Prairie Grass Cafe. I am casting my vote for it's renewal.

Mr X

I think it's easy to get excited by an over-the-top restaurant, or a place that serves unusual ethnic food. PGC is all about subtlety and quality. There's no immediate Wow factor, but it's definitely a great restaurant. I might question whether or not Skokie Blvd is a neighborhood, but I enthusiastically support the renewal (as, apparently, many others do, too).

nr706 wrote:I might question whether or not Skokie Blvd is a neighborhood....

Just be glad that it is not a Great-Neighborhood Restaurant award!

nr706 wrote:I might question whether or not Skokie Blvd is a neighborhood, but I enthusiastically support the renewal (as, apparently, many others do, too).

Regarding neighborhoods, LTHforum and the GNRs Aaron Deacon said it best on the Laschet's GNR nomination thread, LTHForum as neighborhood.

Santander wrote:

Mike G wrote:Why would anyone speak up honestly at this point?

Free will. I don't see the conspiracy, or any fear of retribution or rebuke (from who?). Those that wish to participate can and will, regardless of what is posted before them. I don't think this is idealistic; having been observing the process for three years, and coming into it with no stakes in the board's origin or history, the GNR process is the exact opposite of suppression; it in fact does everything possible to stimulate posts, re-evaluations, and perspectives. I look forward to your posts (and everyone's) in other threads, based on firsthand data!

I agree with Mike G. I've now talked to at least half a dozen LTHers offline who either don't think PGC should have ever been a GNR in the first place (the camp I belong to) and/or that it should not be renewed. The words I've heard used to describe PGC over and over, and which I would use myself--besides "good for for the 'burbs"--are: safe, competent, responsible and solid. These are certainly positive adjectives but not words that evoke "GNR" for me. The hesitation to post is not any fear of retribution but I would say of rebuke because of the few very prominent, influential LTHers who have gotten behind PGC. I think it's quite sad that there is a much wider range of very thoughtful opinions about PGC that are not being voiced on the board.

Is there some LTH Illuminati out there that I'm not aware of? People should post what they think, otherwise this program is meaningless. GNR's are determined based on the feelings of the community. If the community isn't expressing itself (online), then this doesn't work.

happy_stomach wrote: The hesitation to post is not any fear of retribution but I would say of rebuke because of the few very prominent, influential LTHers who have gotten behind PGC. I think it's quite sad that there is a much wider range of very thoughtful opinions about PGC that are not being voiced on the board.

I'd like to see any and all opinions about PGC voiced here. I think it's sad that anyone should feel that their opinions are not important enough to post. Sure, I like PGC and feel it's GNR worthy, but that doesn't mean that I don't want to hear differing viewpoints. If people who feel negatively don't speak up, the renewal of PGC is a foregone conclusion. Having said that, I also think that anyone posting an opinion should have at least eaten there once for their opinion to be valid.

The only time I visited PGC was after a trip to the botanical gardens. We thought everything was ok, but frankly, we found ourselves thinking "good for the burbs." I didn't really post about it because I didn't feel strongly about the experience either way. It's pretty far away from anywhere I visit with any regularity, so I haven't had an opportunity to go back. If I'm ever in the area again I'm likely to try another restaurant first before returning, or perhaps hitting something on the way home rather than going to PGC.

So I guess what I'm saying is that there are a couple factors at play. One is that the restaurant doesn't necessarily elicit strong opinions. The fact that it's "safe, competent, responsible and solid" means that it's hard to find something to really talk about, particularly when it's being compared to restaurants in its "neighborhood." Also, it's in a fairly remote location. If it doesn't stick out as a exceptional, then most people won't make the effort.

So I guess the real debate is about whether or not PGC fits the bill as a great restaurant. I don't feel comfortable making that assessment since I've only been once. I'm unlikely to go again anytime soon and I don't think enough people are visiting to create any buzz.

jesteinf wrote:People should post what they think, otherwise this program is meaningless. GNR's are determined based on the feelings of the community. If the community isn't expressing itself (online), then this doesn't work.

Then based on the conversations I've had about PGC solely during this renewal period, it's not working.

jesteinf wrote:Is there some LTH Illuminati out there that I'm not aware of?

No, but again, there are a few very, very influential posters, and to deny that (not saying that you have, Josh) is absolutely foolish. These posters are not consciously or overtly intimidating anyone--there is no conspiracy--but it seems that their friends do not feel comfortable speaking up.

stevez wrote:I'd like to see any and all opinions about PGC voiced here. I think it's sad that anyone should feel that their opinions are not important enough to post. Sure, I like PGC and feel it's GNR worthy, but that doesn't mean that I don't want to hear differing viewpoints. If people who feel negatively don't speak up, the renewal of PGC is a foregone conclusion.

At this point, the renewal is a forgone conclusion, but this type of statement, coming from one of said prominent posters, helps. There are no individuals at fault; I just think it would serve the community and help us evolve if we more readily acknowledge 1) power dynamics that can be at play and 2) when micro-climates are created that in fact discourage open discussion.

happy_stomach wrote:There are no individuals at fault; I just think it would serve the community and help us evolve if we more readily acknowledge 1) power dynamics that can be at play and 2) when micro-climates are created that in fact discourage open discussion.

I wonder what you are asking people to do differently here, either now or next time there is a renewal process. Can you point to a post or something that you think was not appropriate?

(I don't have a horse in this race. I've been the PGC once, with my wife and grandmother, and liked it very much. More importantly, my grandmother liked it. But I haven't been there enough to have a strong opinion on a GNR.)

turkob wrote:Also, it's in a fairly remote location. If it doesn't stick out as a exceptional, then most people won't make the effort.

You do realize that what is a remote location for you may be centrally located for many others who happen to live, work, or commute in that area?

If you look upthread, you'll notice that there was a vibrant and healthy debate about whether PGC should have received the award 2 years ago. I was probably the most vocal of the naysayers. Though there was one suggestion back then that my voice was somehow being squashed, I certainly never felt that way. I - along with others - voiced my opinion loud and clear, and the PGC supporters voiced theirs. In the end, the committee gave the place an award. The reason I have not posted against renewal is that nothing has changed at PGC. If it won the award last time in the face of whatever opposition was voiced, what's the point in rehashing it? Perhaps I'm part of happy_stomach's half dozen, so just wanted to make it clear that it's not any kind of power play keeping me voicing my opinion.

Darren72 wrote:

happy_stomach wrote:There are no individuals at fault; I just think it would serve the community and help us evolve if we more readily acknowledge 1) power dynamics that can be at play and 2) when micro-climates are created that in fact discourage open discussion.

I wonder what you are asking people to do differently here, either now or next time there is a renewal process. Can you point to a post or something that you think was not appropriate?

It's not a question of propriety; it's about environment and tone and how honest opinions are addressed.

Example #1

Mike G wrote:I have never eaten there and have no opinion one way or the other, but respect what I've heard about Stegner's approach and am eager to try Prairie Fire one of these days.

That said... there's such an undercurrent of "Well, it's good for the suburbs" in the posts by its supporters that I start to wonder. The GNRs have graded on a curve for the burbs in terms of quantity of mentions, nobody expecting Chaihanna to have as many posts as Kuma's, but they've never graded on a curve for quality based on being in the land of malls and chains-- except possibly in this one case.

Certainly with the only comparable suburban high end GNR, Vie, there's no suggestion that it is being ranked against anything other than the finest restaurants anywhere in Chicago. I don't think that's how things read here, and I think that's a serious issue for the committee to consider— in a different location with serious competition, would you take this restaurant as seriously as a contender for one of the best, most distinctive ones in the area? Or rather-- since personal feelings and ties are not what voting is supposed to be based on-- would you say that LTHers on the whole would?

Here, Mike G isn't saying 'yay' or 'nay' for renewal. He says as plainly that he has not eaten there and has no opinion one way or the other as ronnie_surburban says that he's friends with Sarah Stegner and her husband and has a financial stake in one of their restaurants. Mike G asked a legitimate question about the nature of the discussion around PGC and suddenly he's someone who should not be speaking up because he has not eaten there.

Apparently unsuccessfully, I'm also just trying to get us to reflect on the conversation--not attack PGC or LTHers or protest the GNR program. I happen to have eaten at PGC twice--was wholly unimpressed both times--but wanted to post here foremost because of what I was hearing from other people who do not feel comfortable joining the discussion. And now, given the responses I've received this morning via email and PM to what I've written here, I bow out, too.

happy_stomach wrote:Mike G asked a legitimate question about the nature of the discussion around PGC and suddenly he's someone who should not be speaking up because he has not eaten there.

Was something removed from the thread? Where is the suggestion - other than from Mike himself - that he should not have spoken?

The problems represented in this thread are simply problems with the whole GNR schtick. The question is not what PGC is, but whether is what PGC does "great". As a certain friendly neighborhood blogger pointed out this week, a large proportion of GNRs can be dissected from a rational view point. Is it really the best Uzbeki food in town? (don't answer that one.) What I see again and again is not so much objective rankings but subjective preferences. Does your hot dog taste better or worse in the confines of a police waiting room? Or put it this way: anyone familiar with the way companies like McDonald's or Sysco use the word "quality" or "quality assurance". Such quality you don't always want to serve to your kids right? We have the same thing with the word great. Some just are not seeing the greatness in Prairie Grass Cafe, at least as required for a GNR.

I have no need to go even more meta here, but it seems to me that the GNRs have come to encompass not the 50 or so best, or most important, not even the most popular on the Forum, but a collection of places that enough people find "greatness" in however that can be defined to them. We have never asked for greatness to be well thought. Rather, it continues to be expressed in that most loved of Potter Stewart quotes, "we know it when we see it."

For the record, I have eaten there many times, I have at least what I'd call a working relationship with the owners (enough to mostly keep me away from casting a vote in the past). I can see why some do not see greatness in this place, but I also know from my subjective preferences, the commitments to local and sustainable foods, the drive to make things from scratch, it's a place I wildly admire. A GNR.

I still don't understand why people are reluctant to post if they disagree. It's not like Gary's going to drive by your house and throw a rib through your window if you express a dissenting opinion. The GNR's need dissent, especially in the renewal process.

Perhaps this is a broader topic and should be in Site Chat.

A few things that I hope will help to get this back on track.

- It has been suggested that there is a lot of offline discussion of this GNR that does not make it to the Board. The implication is that much of this discussion is negative. I am not sure how to respond to that implication, other than to say, if you have an experience and opinion about PGC's merits, pro or con, that you have not shared, please do so. We really do not need or want an undeserving GNR.

- If someone is trying to privately intimidate anyone into not posting their opinion, I would love to know about it. Probably best to PM me. On the other hand, if you just do not feel like posting because someone who seems like a big shot has already posted an opposing opinion, let me say two things - first, I feel your pain , and second, get over it. Your opinion and taste matter just as much as anyone else.

- Regarding Steve's choice of words when he said the renewal of PGC was a "foregone conclusion," let me be clear that his point was that this is the case if none of the people with negative opinions of PGC chose to post. Reading this thread, that does not seem to have been the case here, but it has been implied a couple of times, so let me be clear: Please post if you have an opinion, pro or con.

- I agree that some of the discussion earlier this week, and late last week was dominated by a couple of posters who basically argued their positions back and forth. That does not encourage others to chime in, so I very much hope we will let everyone say their piece, and not keep reiterating our opinions more stridently whenever there is a post that seems to disagree. Once you have stated your opinion, please let others have the space to state theirs.

- Some of this thread, including this post, does not directly bear on the merits of PGC, as Josh remarked above. It should and will be split and some posts moved to Site Chat. This will require a little care so as to not destroy the context of other posts that follow moved posts, so I cannot say exactly when it will happen, but it will be addressed.

d
for the GNRs

dicksond wrote:- Regarding Steve's choice of words when he said the renewal of PGC was a "foregone conclusion," let me be clear that his point was that this is the case if none of the people with negative opinions of PGC chose to post.

Yes. That is exactly what I meant. Please post regardless of whether your opinion is positive or negative. If you don't post, no one will ever know how you feel.