ronnie_suburban wrote:In reference to the OP, here's a screenshot of the online order dialog box at Byrons's website . . .
Byron's website screenshot
It does show lettuce, cucumber and green pepper as available condiments, and even provides a 'beg for it' ketchup option!
=R=
chicagojim wrote:Right - but the header is "Hot Dog" not "Chicago-Style Hot Dog" which is what the OP was asking about.
What makes Byron’s stand out isn’t the dog itself. As Rich Bowen points out, 'There are two kinds of Vienna Beef Hot Dogs. There are the ones you can buy in the supermarket and they are skinless, they don’t have a casing, they don’t have a sheep intestine casing, and Byron uses those.' Bowman says that if he used the one with the casing, the ones with the snap, it would be his favorite dog, 'without question,' but he stills considers Byron’s Chicago’s most authentic hot dog because of the toppings. 'It’s not just the Magnificent Seven: mustard, relish, onions, tomato slices, a pickle spear -- relish and celery salt and hot peppers. You can also get cucumber and lettuce and green pepper. So it’s literally, the proverbial garden on a bun.'
As I've noted before, there used to be a more robust counter-Vienna school of Chicago hot dog. The primary definers (it seems) were a variation of the word tasty in the name, a Leon's dog instead, and the addition of the garden, fresh veggie toppings--the lettuce, cuke and green pepper. I would add, although Vienna places like Gene n Jude's do too, the Tasty school used seedless buns. As far as I know, there are ZERO Tasy places left.
MungryJoe wrote:ronnie_suburban - let's call your definition of a Chicago-style hot dog the "classic" style that uses the magnificent seven we all know and love.
MungryJoe wrote:My question is does anyone know the origin of lettuce, cucumber, and bell pepper on a Chicago-style hot dog? I'm not looking for assumptions—I'm looking for specific knowledge, sources, etc.
I already know one Chicago-style hot dog expert has said the "additional" toppings are "most authentic" (see below). I'm trying to get to the history and origins.What makes Byron’s stand out isn’t the dog itself. As Rich Bowen points out, 'There are two kinds of Vienna Beef Hot Dogs. There are the ones you can buy in the supermarket and they are skinless, they don’t have a casing, they don’t have a sheep intestine casing, and Byron uses those.' Bowman says that if he used the one with the casing, the ones with the snap, it would be his favorite dog, 'without question,' but he stills considers Byron’s Chicago’s most authentic hot dog because of the toppings. 'It’s not just the Magnificent Seven: mustard, relish, onions, tomato slices, a pickle spear -- relish and celery salt and hot peppers. You can also get cucumber and lettuce and green pepper. So it’s literally, the proverbial garden on a bun.'
Puckjam wrote:I moved down that way in 1979 and I remember a place in Glenview Area called Franksville ( I remember seeing other Franksville places in other area's as they had a distinct building) and they had the cuke, lettuce, gp along with the other standards.
Puckjam wrote:That's the place with the unique building and hot dog train. The one in Glenview automatically put the cukes, lettuce, and gp along with the original 7 on a dog with everything. I always remembered that because the only other one was Tasty Pup on Milwaukee, just north of Booby's (one of my favorites).
ndgbucktown wrote:Fascinating thread.
VI, thanks for putting the "Tasty" approach in context. As far as I can recall, my only encounter with the style was a few years back right before the Oak Park Tasty Dog was razed; I figured I owed it to myself to try it before it was gone, despite middling-to-poor reviews dating back (at least) to the publication of Hot Dog Chicago. I remember laughing involuntarily when I unwrapped this, which was (to me) clearly a hot dog with hamburger toppings slapped on top.
A seedless bun cannot not be goyish.
Panther in the Den wrote:ndgbucktown wrote:Fascinating thread.
VI, thanks for putting the "Tasty" approach in context. As far as I can recall, my only encounter with the style was a few years back right before the Oak Park Tasty Dog was razed; I figured I owed it to myself to try it before it was gone, despite middling-to-poor reviews dating back (at least) to the publication of Hot Dog Chicago. I remember laughing involuntarily when I unwrapped this, which was (to me) clearly a hot dog with hamburger toppings slapped on top.
A seedless bun cannot not be goyish.
A Salad Dog
I actually used to enjoy Tasty Dog as an occasional alternative. I remember when the restaurant was on the south side of Lake. Had a certain charm.
When they first opened the put a lot more lettuce than in your picture, an entire handful. You would have to eat the salad before you could start on the dog.
I had some friends that referred to it as Nasty Dog.
They also used to make deep fried tacos (aka: Jack in the Box, Burger King) but towards the end they had replaced them with a traditional.
Panther in the Den wrote:Puckjam wrote:That's the place with the unique building and hot dog train. The one in Glenview automatically put the cukes, lettuce, and gp along with the original 7 on a dog with everything. I always remembered that because the only other one was Tasty Pup on Milwaukee, just north of Booby's (one of my favorites).
The original chain put nothing on it (unless you got one of the standards) and it was up to you to top it anyway you wanted.
I didn’t realize they were a nationwide chain!
chicagojim wrote:Panther in the Den wrote:ndgbucktown wrote:Fascinating thread.
VI, thanks for putting the "Tasty" approach in context. As far as I can recall, my only encounter with the style was a few years back right before the Oak Park Tasty Dog was razed; I figured I owed it to myself to try it before it was gone, despite middling-to-poor reviews dating back (at least) to the publication of Hot Dog Chicago. I remember laughing involuntarily when I unwrapped this, which was (to me) clearly a hot dog with hamburger toppings slapped on top.
A seedless bun cannot not be goyish.
A Salad Dog
I actually used to enjoy Tasty Dog as an occasional alternative. I remember when the restaurant was on the south side of Lake. Had a certain charm.
When they first opened the put a lot more lettuce than in your picture, an entire handful. You would have to eat the salad before you could start on the dog.
I had some friends that referred to it as Nasty Dog.
They also used to make deep fried tacos (aka: Jack in the Box, Burger King) but towards the end they had replaced them with a traditional.
I'd blocked the Oak Park Tasty Dog from my mind. It was formerly a hot dog shack, no other term for it. Frequented by the high school crowd and people who needed to sop up some alcohol, but much beloved.
The Oak Park needed the land, and the People's Republic of Oak Park got things all twisted up politically, and instead of just razing the place and being done with it, public sentiment got them backed into a corner, and then the need to make it "pretty" left them with what was described as "the world's most expensive hot dog stand" which probably wasn't too far from the truth.
MungryJoe wrote:So, the origin of lettuce appears to start with what most consider to be the original Chicago-style hot dog: Flukey's "Depression Sandwich"
Binko wrote:MungryJoe wrote:So, the origin of lettuce appears to start with what most consider to be the original Chicago-style hot dog: Flukey's "Depression Sandwich"
And hopefully also helps settle the debate as to whether a hot dog is a sandwich or not. (Yes, yes it is!)
budrichard wrote:Let’s not forget the condiments!
The Vienna Factory Store has some of the best condiments for sale as well as used in their cafeteria.
”Run it through the garden” gets you a great dog.
Two dogs with fries is about $6.
The Celery Salt is the best I have found!
Woodman’s also has a full selection of condiments.
The only substitute I make is Raye’s ‘Top Dog’ mustard.
https://rayesmustard.com/collections/be ... og-mustard
-Richard
scottsol wrote:According to a legal precedent set in a 2006 Boston court case, a sandwich requires at least two slices of bread. A traditional hot dog is not a sandwich. A hot dog is also excluded as a sandwich by the FDA.
Binko wrote:I don't look at the courts or FDA to determine what a sandwich is and isn't. A traditional sub/hoagie isn't two slices of bread, either, but I doubt anyone would say that isn't a sandwich.
scottsol wrote:Binko wrote:MungryJoe wrote:So, the origin of lettuce appears to start with what most consider to be the original Chicago-style hot dog: Flukey's "Depression Sandwich"
And hopefully also helps settle the debate as to whether a hot dog is a sandwich or not. (Yes, yes it is!)
According to a legal precedent set in a 2006 Boston court case, a sandwich requires at least two slices of bread. A traditional hot dog is not a sandwich. A hot dog is also excluded as a sandwich by the FDA.
Taco John's has a taco burger on their menu, though I am not sure why unless it's for people who want a taco but don't want crunchy or soft tortillas as the delivery vehicle of the contents.chicagojim wrote:I can't find the reference back, but probably a few months ago there was a blog posting about some bar in, I think, Texas, that got a taco declared to be a sandwich. There was some law about bars needing to serve sandwiches to get their license - or something like that. And they were allowed to have a taco qualify as a sandwich.