Tambreet wrote:Here is what Big Jones said in their email newsletter last month about their service charge. Like others said, they are trying to go with a more European model, where servers don't need tips to survive, but where smaller tips are welcomed but not expected.

We decided to introduce a 20% service charge - the standard modern tip rate - and apply that to wages and benefits. Everyone at Big Jones makes at least $16 per hour ($17 and up in the kitchen) and has access to health care, dental, and vision with a 60% co-pay by Big Jones, and everyone receives free accident and hospitalization insurance at our expense. With paid vacation, time off, and sick leave, everyone receives up to two weeks paid time off every year.

What about tipping? Most guests still choose to leave a tip - in fact, we added the tip line back to the sales slip at customer request. Any additional gratuity you choose to leave is definitely appreciated, but keep in mind that our dining room staff all make at least $16 per hour before tips. If you're happy with the service, 10% would be generous, 5% appreciated, and leaving no tip is not inappropriate. They don't depend on tips to make a living, but if you like their service, you are welcome to leave a little extra for them, it definitely is still an incentive for them to provide excellent service.

It does sound like the server gave him inaccurate information. According to him, she "explained that this was COVID related. The 20 percent was to cover the various plague-related challenges, and the blank tip space—which I had already drawn a line through—was for her." That he prefaced it by being a dick and writing "At that moment the waitress swept in with well-practiced timing and explained that" eliminates any sympathy I might have for him. However, the server was actually getting a portion of the service fee indirectly - the restaurant claims it's setting an hourly pay rate taking into account service fees.

Service fees started replacing tipping well before covid - it frees the restaurant from a lot of legal risks under federal, state and municipal wage laws.

jellob1976 wrote:

gnarchief wrote:He made sure to throw in some casual misogyny to put you in the right headspace for his douche-y take on the service charge. You don't want to pay it? Don't eat there and move on with your life. He'd have no doubt complained if all menu prices went up 20% as well.

Where was the casual misogyny? I re-read the article and didn't see anything, although I may have missed it.

As for whether this is douchey or not, I have mixed feelings. I think there's douchey-ness on both ends.

I understand surcharges now, be it for Covid, supply chain issues, or just the cost of food increasing.

That said, restaurants absolutely should make this clear before the bill comes. If the menu says an item is $10, then it should be $10, not $12. If the restaurant doesn't want to fold this cost into the menu prices, then there should be a disclosure on the menu.

And what's really douchey on the restaurant's part: forcing the wait staff to explain the upcharge after the meal. I can certainly see situations where the wait staff is getting shorted/stiffed because a customer is pissed off at the policy. That's not fair to them.

On the other hand, if I were Steinberg, I'm not sure I would have named the restaurant. Shit's so tough for restaurants right now. So while I do think it's fair for journalists to criticize these types of practices, I do think they should refrain from "naming names", or at least give the restaurant an opportunity to respond before publishing the criticism.

This guy was clearly upset that he paid an extra 15 in tip, and so he was clearly gonna let his blog audience know about the place that did this to him...

And while i agree that more transparency would be better, I feel as if the people most likely to argue with the mandatory service charge are the exact reason why this is in effect in the first place.

If the 20% is labelled a gratuity on the check, that does seem misleading and/or confusing. Has anyone seen the actual check?

Hi,

This situation has a parallel to a story I heard recently from a friend.

She organized a very nice dinner to show her appreciation to her employees. She negotiated a 20% tip built into the cost. When the meal concluded, the bill had a line for a tip. The waiter pointed to the blank line advising that was his tip. She explained the tip was already built into the cost and declined to add more. From that point on the waiters were pouty and rude.

When I do large dinners of this type, I have tip built into the final agreed total to avoid any misunderstanding or a surprise digging into my pockets.

In her situation, I wondered if the management did not explain their tip was already considered for the waiters or the waiters were they trying to get more.

The similarities are uncanny.

Regards,
CAthy2

I ate at Big Jones recently and all of this is made very clear to the diner.

The menu clearly says "A 20% service charge is added to each check in lieu of tip". You see the menu for yourself on their website. They don't have paper menus; you scan a QR code and it pulls the menu. See https://bigjoneschicago.com/dine/

The receipt also very clearly shows the 20% service charge. And, yes, you have the opportunity to leave an extra tip.

This isn't rocket science. I assume he misunderstood or miscommunicated with the server and decided to escalate this to his blog.

Darren72 wrote:I ate at Big Jones recently and all of this is made very clear to the diner.

This isn't rocket science. I assume he misunderstood or miscommunicated with the server and decided to escalate this to his blog.

I agree. Plus, he professes to be a seasoned restaurant goer and yet he's surprised by these types of charges 20 months into coronatime? Does he live under a rock?

In any case, I have no doubt the charges are not kept secret at Big Jones in any way.

=R=

There are two villains to this tale. First is the server who, if Steinberg accurately communicated her words, lied about the purpose of the 20% service charge in order to extort a tip. Second is Steinberg, who should have acted like a reporter and checked the veracity of his “source”.

We have ordered Thanksgiving dinner from Big Jones this year to take out to my mom's. I'll be interested to hear her take on it. Mr. X and I are very excited about this menu!

Punch
Battery Punch—Cognac, gin, loquat shrub, colombard wine, black tea, citrus, mace

Beginnings
Horseradish beer cheese, two-year country ham, quince preserves, fall kimchi, hot chow, fresno pepper jelly

Buttermilk rolls with Farmhouse Kitchens butter and Bull’s Bay sea salt

Cauliflower bisque with bread & butter pickle relish and garlic butter croutons

Salad of frisee and herbs with local apples, celery, almonds, and Capriole Wabash Cannonball

Entree
Deep-fried turkey in the Cajun style, with giblet gravy and cranberry sauce***
onion, apple, and sage stuffing

Sides
Mashed sweet potatoes with brown butter, pepitas, and Caudill’s Sorghum

Skillet-charred Brussels sprouts with sea island benne, lemon, crispy shallots

Sweets
Pumpkin pie, whipped Kilgus Farmstead cream

White chocolate-dipped bourbon balls with a dusting of freshly ground sassafras

I just wish they'd bring back that huge ass chicken feast that they used to serve at lunch.

“I just wish they'd bring back that huge ass chicken feast that they used to serve at lunch.“

YES!

The GP wrote:We have ordered Thanksgiving dinner from Big Jones this year to take out to my mom's. I'll be interested to hear her take on it. Mr. X and I are very excited about this menu!

Punch
Battery Punch—Cognac, gin, loquat shrub, colombard wine, black tea, citrus, mace

Beginnings
Horseradish beer cheese, two-year country ham, quince preserves, fall kimchi, hot chow, fresno pepper jelly

Buttermilk rolls with Farmhouse Kitchens butter and Bull’s Bay sea salt

Cauliflower bisque with bread & butter pickle relish and garlic butter croutons

Salad of frisee and herbs with local apples, celery, almonds, and Capriole Wabash Cannonball

Entree
Deep-fried turkey in the Cajun style, with giblet gravy and cranberry sauce***
onion, apple, and sage stuffing

Sides
Mashed sweet potatoes with brown butter, pepitas, and Caudill’s Sorghum

Skillet-charred Brussels sprouts with sea island benne, lemon, crispy shallots

Sweets
Pumpkin pie, whipped Kilgus Farmstead cream

White chocolate-dipped bourbon balls with a dusting of freshly ground sassafras

The verdict on Thanksgiving dinner from Big Jones was good, but not great. Winners: horseradish beer cheese and accompaniments, the salad, cauliflower bisque (for me & mom, Mr. X was not as impressed), Brussels sprouts, sweet potatoes, and gravy. The turkey was good to great depending on who you asked at our table. (It was dog approved.) I found the punch to be too sweet. I also wasn't a fan of the pumpkin pie. The crust was odd. The bourbon balls are still to be eaten. The rolls or cranberry sauce were left out of our order so no comment on those.

I'm a fan of Big Jones so was surprised at the misses. I waited almost 30 minutes to pick up our order and was not alone in that wait. The staff was cranking but something was off in their planning to have so many people waiting. This was not an inexpensive meal either, which highlights the low points for me. I still like their food so we'll continue to support them.

Way, way, way too long to visit what used to be one of my go tos in the before times. While I've been missing out, they haven't lost a step. Plenty of old favorites are still on the menu along with a new emphasis on smoked meats (4 different smoked meat entrees). We went family style and had quite a feast.


Pimiento cheese had a very nice kick thanks to the inclusion of piccalilli. Just outstanding stuff. There's a pimiento cheese juicy lucy on the menu that I'm going to have to get back there to try.


Corn fritters were good not great but I'm not sure there's a corn fritter out there I'd consider great.


Pickle platter was great with each one bringing a different pickled flavor profile. Clockwise starting with okra there's chow chow, bread and butter pickles, piccalilli, something they call kimchi that was very good but not what I'd call kimchi, and summer squash. This really is a must order if you're going meat heavy on the entrees.


One of my dining companions had top notch deviled eggs at Big Jones earlier this summer and couldn't stop talking about them. They're not on the menu these days but the excellent devilled crawfish cakes are.


Big Jones' homage to the Chicago classic that is tips and links. The tips were great - clearly much better quality meat than used at the Chicago institutions. The sauce started a little sweet for my tastes but the tanginess that followed was great. The links were also excellent but they didn't have much kick at all. If you're expecting a recreation of Lem's, this might be a disappointment, but that's not what they're going for. Probably wouldn't get this one again.


If you've been to Big Jones, you've had their fried chicken. It's as good as ever, which is to say it's some of the best on the planet. Voodoo greens are still the must order side. More bread in there than I remember, but the tangy mouthwatering greens are still exceptional.


Alabama smoked chicken. We were sharing and I got stuck with a portion of breast so all I can say is that for a chicken breast, it was excellent. Smoky and perfectly cooked and the white sauce was great. Would love to go have it again and share with someone who prefers white meat but I don't think there's anyone who prefers white meat I'd want to eat with.


The smoked and smothered East Carolina pork shoulder sandwich with bacon fries was finger licking delicious. It was the last entree I tried so I didn't get the fries at peak crispiness, but that didn't stop me from shoveling them into my gullet.

Too full for dessert.

I noticed that Wednesday nights are now Burger Nights at Big Jones. There are 7 different burgers on that menu. I'm going to need to make that happen sooner than later.

Edited to tone down praise of the tips and links. Still a fan, but the high praise didn't survive the post-meal glow.

MarlaCollins'Husband wrote:
I noticed that Wednesday nights are now Burger Nights at Big Jones. There are 7 different burgers on that menu. I'm going to need to make that happen sooner than later.

The burgers are excellent. Well worth a visit.

Thanks for the reminder about the fried chicken. It’s been too long for me. Very much agreed on those crawfish cakes – they are excellent.

Darren72 wrote:
The burgers are excellent. Well worth a visit.

Oof.

Our meal at Big Jones was, in a word, disappointing. The meal began on such a high note that, to end on the consesus that it did, was a bit heartbreaking, especially given that this is my neighborhood and has always been in my recommendations for folks looking at places to eat in Andersonville. I don't think that this meal will be enough to remove them outright, but I will describe them going forward as, "hit or miss".

Rhubarb Mojito
The cabana classic made with rum infused with local Midwestern rhubarb

Flight of the Fledgeling
An Old Fashioned for new fashioned types. Buffalo Trace, Sazerac Rye, nectarine oleo saccharum, Peychaud's Apertivo



We arrived shortly before 6pm and were able to place a couple happy hour dishes:

Blackened Soft Shell Crabs
Chesapeake soft shell crab charred in cast iron, with nostrale rice panisse, candied local fennel and asparagus, lemon hollandaise


Fried Chicken (Half)
Four pieces of the recipe some have called the Best in America, gluten free and fried crisp in canola oil, with red beans and rice, cornbread muffin, and sweet chili sauce

The soft shell crabs were delicious and the fried chicken was better than I remembered.

The rest of the meal that I can't reccomend from our visit:

Sizzling Jambalaya
Cahokia rice stir-fried with Gulf of Mexico white prans, toasted house andouille, pulled chicken, our housemade worcestershire and a clutch of shpices, served on a sizzle platter with a sunny side-up duck egg and hog crackling


OG Big Jones Burger
The original burger we served at Big Jones - char-grilled seasoned Fischer Farms beef, Jarlsberg Swiss cheese, shiitake mushroom duxelles. and Dijon mayonnaise, pickles on the side


Crawfish Etouffee a la Breaux Bridge, ca. 1930
Louisiana crawfish tails smothered in butter and wine with onion and spices, served with steamed Cahokia rice


Bama-style Barbecued Turkey Thigh
Ferndale Farm turkey thigh smoked over hickory and finished on the char grill with Alabama white sauce, local red thumb fingerling potato salad vinaigrette, and organic baby kale sals with peanut, puffed rice, and ginger-benne dressing


Chocolate Pots de Crème
TCHO fair trade-certified organic chocolate baked in crème custard, sauced with salted Jamaican rum caramel, dusted in candied peanuts and topped with crème fraiche


Bourbon Bread Pudding
Richly spiced pudding spiked with bourbon whiskey, served with homemade Klug Farm peach butter, toasted oat streusel, Tahitian vanilla ice cream


I'm not going to provide commentary other than to say I truly hope it was just an off night and the kitchen was too focused on accomodating the celebratory party of 20 seated next to us.

Great pictures and descriptions of the dishes, but why disappointed? A post like this is not really fair to the restaurant or readers to determine whether your non-specified complaints have any basis in fact. Specifics please.

johnnies wrote:Great pictures and descriptions of the dishes, but why disappointed? A post like this is not really fair to the restaurant or readers to determine whether your non-specified complaints have any basis in fact. Specifics please.

The first two dishes were exempted from the overall disappointment. There is nothing unfair about the post. This isn't a criminal court of law. There's no burden of proof to be met. Asking for specifics, sure. But please don't try and shame it as unfair given how much effort was put in to post with such detailed photos.

I'm left to wonder, if I were looking for this sort of cuisine, should I risk Big Jones or not?

johnnies wrote:... and descriptions of the dishes

Those are excerpts from Big Jones's menu.

bweiny wrote:

johnnies wrote:Great pictures and descriptions of the dishes, but why disappointed? A post like this is not really fair to the restaurant or readers to determine whether your non-specified complaints have any basis in fact. Specifics please.

The first two dishes were exempted from the overall disappointment. There is nothing unfair about the post. This isn't a criminal court of law. There's no burden of proof to be met. Asking for specifics, sure. But please don't try and shame it as unfair given how much effort was put in to post with such detailed photos.

Amen. Nobody owes anyone anything here and there's certainly nothing remotely productive about publicly criticizing the content of someone's post about food.

I was at the dinner with incite, agree with him, and I'm not going to write a word about the specifics of it here because it was such an anomaly based on my experience with Big Jones that I'm happy to chalk it up to being an off night. If problems persist, then the content cops can rest assured I'll post about it here. But in the meantime, Big Jones has earned enough goodwill from me.

One more word about the fried chicken (since comments should be about the restaurant and not other people's posts), I agree that it was the best I've had there in probably a couple dozen times trying it over the years. And while I absolutely loved the voodoo greens that used to be standard with the chicken and would have ordered a quart of it to go if it was ever sold that way, the bed of rice and beans and crackling was so good that I actually forgot about the greens until long after the meal was over.

I lived walking distance for a couple decades and Big Jones was a regular for us. It clearly would not have been if we weren't happy with the food, ambiance, service, etc. We moved in 2012 and have not had many chances to go back, but we went with friends last summer. Almost everything we all had was disappointing from the coffee to the biscuits and everything in between. Nothing was "bad" but nothing was good either. I didn't post because, as just noted, they've earned a lot of goodwill over a long period. Things happen and I'm very reluctant to make a big to-do based on one occasion. If we encounter the same issues again, I'll note it, but in the meantime, I chalk it up to a one-off.

tjr wrote:A review of the post: The introduction was informative, pictures beautiful, the remainder of the content, in a word, disappointing.

Seriously, though, lack of details on the problems makes this not very actionable, especially in light of how good the food looks. Of course, there aren't any editorial standards here, so the author is free to post as they desire. But I'm left to wonder, if I were looking for this sort of cuisine, should I risk Big Jones or not?

johnnies wrote:... and descriptions of the dishes

Those are excerpts from Big Jones's menu.

This has to be one of the rudest posts I've ever seen. Incite made a very thoughtful post and communicated exactly what he wanted to get across. Perhaps he should send his posts to you first, so you can determine if you think they are adequately informative?

deesher wrote:This has to be one of the rudest posts I've ever seen. bweiny made a very thoughtful post and communicated exactly what he wanted to get across. Perhaps he should send his posts to you first, so you can determine if you think they are adequately informative?

Not to get too into the weeds, but I think you mixed me up with incite. He (or she?) put in the work to post pictures and a review. Even if light hearted, the mockery comes off as condescending. It shouldn't be that complicated to accept everything below the soft shells and fried chicken as underwhelming during the visit.

Thanks. Fixed it.

deesher wrote:This has to be one of the rudest posts I've ever seen. Incite made a very thoughtful post and communicated exactly what he wanted to get across. Perhaps he should send his posts to you first, so you can determine if you think they are adequately informative?

OK, I edited my comment to remove the part you didn't like. Still wondering what was so bad, though, and further why two different people are letting this place skate by on its past goodwill.

tjr wrote:

Still wondering what was so bad, though, and further why two different people are letting this place skate by on its past goodwill.[/quote]

I still don’t understand why it’s unreasonable or “rude” to ask for further detail/clarification here, especially when the pictures provided did not especially convey or clarify the problems of the dishes and/or bulk of the meal. I could understand the “he doesn’t owe us anything” argument if it was just a short text summary, but there are pictures of every.single.course, of which some appear to have some plating issues but none which scream PROBLEMATIC from the visual evidence and complete lack of description. I couldn’t have been the only one eying the dishes to try to figure out what was so wrong about them to warrant saying nothing at all…

I still don’t understand why it’s unreasonable or “rude” to ask for further detail/clarification here, especially when the pictures provided did not especially convey or clarify the problems of the dishes and/or bulk of the meal. I could understand the “he doesn’t owe us anything” argument if it was just a short text summary, but there are pictures of every.single.course, of which some appear to have some plating issues but none which scream PROBLEMATIC from the visual evidence and complete lack of description. I couldn’t have been the only one eying the dishes to try to figure out what was so wrong about them to warrant saying nothing at all…

the whining about incite's post is complete bullshit. It's the posting police on the scene again. I think I'd rather hang out with baseball umpires. i mean, is there a more unlikable group of people in the world? These clowns pretend they're acting in service to the greater good of the site, and it's readers' best interest, that, in and of itself, is a fucking lol, but in actuality, just seize upon the opportunity to nitpick someone else's post because...well, I have no fucking idea. I'm better at recognizing bullshit than I am at analyzing it. They love negativity?

since when is refraining from posting about a one-time negative experience at a beloved place considered 'letting them skate?' Whoever wrote that has no fucking idea what LTH is or what it stands for. Sure, the site's not what it once was but it's never been about that. That may be the most clueless, fucked up comment I've ever read here. We're not here to tear places down, we're here because we love them, we're here to support them. We're here to be honest with each other about our experiences, so that we can better know whether or not we'd want to go to a place.

in what way did incite's content-rich post not check those boxes? To broadly criticize it without asking him a single specific question reveals a hidden agenda. What a shameful attempt to drag the thread down to a useless level. If you read his post, read this whole thread (350+ posts and nearly 300k views), you needn't ask about whether or not Big Jones is worth patronizing. Are we really to believe that his post was going to tip the balance of opinion for you? Give me a fuckking break. You're busting his balls and we all fucking know it, especially you. Please don't pretend your ridiculous post, or your after-the fact, faux-sincere explanation of it, have any basis in courtesy or constructive discussion. it's just torch and pitchfork material, nothing more.

I completley understand and take no issue with folks wanting more details or being upset with the vagueness of my post. We discussed not posting regarding our meal, as Gypsy Boy did with his dissapointing meal months prior, but I like taking pretty photos and my desire to have people tell me, "what pretty photos, incite!" was too strong. I'm a sucker for compliments.

The majority of our meal suffered from what's generally wrong with every disappointing meal -- underseasoned, overcooked, not warm, not enough acid, etc. And while that was true for most of the dishes we had that night, the burger managed to tick just about every box; a hockey puck between two pieces of bread. The fries were pretty good, though.

Big Jones will live another day, I'll probably eventually get back there...I'm just not running any time soon.

tjr wrote:I'm left to wonder, if I were looking for this sort of cuisine, should I risk Big Jones or not?

Sure, though I would describe them as sometimes being hit or miss

Well, let's see: The last two meals reviewed here were disappointing. 2 users mentioned dining together with the majority of dishes being bad but unwilling to give specifics. Another user mentioned having good experiences 10+ years ago but a recent visit was disappointing, with almost no single item being good. All treated these as anomalies but didn't mention any reason the reader should do so. If they had said "We returned the following week, completely different story!" it would be easy to draw a different conclusion.

Also on the most recent page of the thread: A relatively lukewarm review of a Thanksgiving dinner that includes "I'm a fan of Big Jones so was surprised at the misses." Sounds like another sunk sentiment cost. Then, a glowing review from fall 2023.

Go back a page in the thread, that takes us to 2015, seven positive experiences but one mixed (one dish excellent, one not as good as before), one overall disappointment and one that mentioned "bizarrely bad food."

Maybe it's just the glare from my torch reflected in my pitchfork, but this meta-analysis suggests that the restaurant is going downhill from its former greatness. The only reviews from 2024 are not positive. A very wise statistics professor once told me, "Absent any other data, the best predictor of the future is the status quo." Given all that, I find it very reasonable to ask whether Big Jones is worth a diner's time and money. And I did read incite's post. It made me think that if I went there, I too would say, as they did, "Oof. Our meal at Big Jones was, in a word, disappointing." 300some posts from more than 9 years ago don't tell me much about what's happening there today. And those aren't 100% positive by any stretch, many with very specific complaints.

And as to criticism of complaints without specifics, that has come up before without anywhere near the heat (or its anagram) here. Take a look at this: Zombie restaurants - were they never really dead?

Finally, as to "not here to tear places down" in general, given the vast array of restaurants in Chicagoland and the limited time and budget of most diners, isn't it more beneficial to tell it like it is and encourage them to move on to love a different restaurant? Lest I seem like the unique villain in this opinion, a quote from the above-mentioned thread:

bweiny wrote:

chezbrad wrote:This (i.e., LTH) is a semi-anonymous, entirely asynchronous medium: why is it so hard to name the restaurant of your rant du jour? Perhaps you’re trying to be above it, or to not be mean towards/critical of small businesses; however, it makes your input pretty useless to one’s reader—and isn’t that who we owe here?

Cosign as forcefully as possible. Broadly, the lack of specific restaurant criticism on here is a disservice to all. If a place is doing a poor job, let people know so they can be avoided and someone else takes their spot.

incite wrote:I completley understand and take no issue with folks wanting more details or being upset with the vagueness of my post. We discussed not posting regarding our meal, as Gypsy Boy did with his dissapointing meal months prior, but I like taking pretty photos and my desire to have people tell me, "what pretty photos, incite!" was too strong. I'm a sucker for compliments.

The majority of our meal suffered from what's generally wrong with every disappointing meal -- underseasoned, overcooked, not warm, not enough acid, etc. And while that was true for most of the dishes we had that night, the burger managed to tick just about every box; a hockey puck between two pieces of bread. The fries were pretty good, though.

Big Jones will live another day, I'll probably eventually get back there...I'm just not running any time soon.

tjr wrote:I'm left to wonder, if I were looking for this sort of cuisine, should I risk Big Jones or not?

Sure, though I would describe them as sometimes being hit or miss

Thanks for the followup. And I'll say it again: beautiful photos!

Late dinner for us at Big Jones last night. Mr. X had the summer old fashioned (incite notes it as Flight of the Fledgeling - there's been a name change) and I had Franklin's Power (celery-infused North Shore No. 11 gin, Dolin blanc, saler's, orange bitters.) I very much enjoyed my drink and I'm not a huge celery fan. We started with the popcorn shrimp and okra (Key West pink shrimp and okra in crispy rice flour breading tossed with sweet pepper jelly.) I had spinach and asparagus bisque while he had the gumbo yaya and we split the blackened chicken salad. We also split the pot de creme for dessert. (It had toasted pecans instead of peanuts in our version.) For me, the weak point was the dessert. Way too much going on for a pot de creme. Give me my chocolate pudding without all the other stuff.

We got to Big Jones pretty regularly, though lately it's been mostly for a cocktail or two on Thursdays when the cocktail list is half price. When we've eaten there, we haven't experienced anything that would make us stop going. They still do many things very well. I'm fine giving them some slack when something is a miss.